The Great Sub Job Stupidity And Raise Ethics

[Legomyeggo]

yeah, lol, I love that message. Makes it sound like their reputation is "disabled". As in, this child is disabled.

Whoa, that's a pretty clever joke. Watch out guys, Uzor is a riot!

 

[Tyrath]

It took about 3 days for me to get from 20-37 (38? don't remember how far I went with it... ask Tyrath)

lol yeah, you took your war sub to 38 for some reason @.@

 

[Vansing]

stupidity

Honestly, i think of all the dumb things done, /nin is the least to worry about.

 

[Xalioniaf]

I find it funny how lately a lot of threads are backfiring on the OP.
This just warms my heart.

 

[Excim]

I find it funny how lately a lot of threads are backfiring on the OP.
This just warms my heart.

I'm going to start a flame on all people who eat dead babies. I'll bet some of these guys could still spin it somehow... h34r:


"OMG, They had to eat to survive! Would you rather eat a withered old person, or a nice juicy tender baby?! Damn!"

...kinda sounds like a Wendy's ad, doesn't it?

"JUICY, TENDER, BABY! JUICY, TENDER, BABY!"

 

[Uzor]

Honestly why bitch about 20 to 24 though?

People are gimped as fuck, people half ass everything at that level. And nin sub botheres you above all that?

If someone is gimped as fuck, I give them hell about it. If someone is a complete moron, I give them hell about it. If someone uses a sub that slows the party down uneccesarily (which /NIN sub do at this lvl), I give them hell about it. Its not being elitist. If no one ever tells someone what they're doing is bad, especially at that level, people won't ever learn.

Are you going to say now that "OMG?! You flame people for having gimp equip at that level?? They don't know anything better! You ass!"? or the same but with playing their ob bad? God knows how many pullers I've told to not pull by hitting something in melee range, or not to use ranged attack within melee range when pulling.

Luckily, I've not seen many people with gimp equip this level. And I wouldn't consider this much of an issue, since there's not a lot of equip to wear at this level. As long as they don't wear lvl 1 armour I don't really care.

Anyway, I'm off to work.

 

[Uzor]

Whoa, that's a pretty clever joke. Watch out guys, Uzor is a riot!

I sure hope you didn't think I was trying to insult him there...

 

[Xalioniaf]

I have level 8 pants and hands on my Scholar16. It's funny.

 

[Itachiii]

I have level 8 pants and hands on my Scholar16. It's funny.

This is the reason why it's called loldunes. People who don't put the effort into lvling the proper sub job and/or gearing correctly is what make the parties shit. The loldunes will always be loldunes because of players like this.

 

[Xalioniaf]

This is the reason why it's called loldunes. People who don't put the effort into lvling the proper sub job and/or gearing correctly is what make the parties shit. The loldunes will always be loldunes because of players like this.

Of course, you can completely ignore my other gear, which includes either MP+ or hMP+, depending on if I'm resting or up. But outside of gear that I'll stop using in two or three levels, there's nothing out there for those two slots.

 

[Tyrath]

Are you going to say now that "OMG?! You flame people for having gimp equip at that level??

Yeah, pretty much. Just like a dunes flame isn't viable. Neither is a qufim flame.

 

[Davion]

If someone is gimped as fuck, I give them hell about it. If someone is a complete moron, I give them hell about it. If someone uses a sub that slows the party down uneccesarily (which /NIN sub do at this lvl), I give them hell about it. Its not being elitist. If no one ever tells someone what they're doing is bad, especially at that level, people won't ever learn.

Are you going to say now that "OMG?! You flame people for having gimp equip at that level?? They don't know anything better! You ass!"? or the same but with playing their ob bad? God knows how many pullers I've told to not pull by hitting something in melee range, or not to use ranged attack within melee range when pulling.

Luckily, I've not seen many people with gimp equip this level. And I wouldn't consider this much of an issue, since there's not a lot of equip to wear at this level. As long as they don't wear lvl 1 armour I don't really care.

Anyway, I'm off to work.

I was about to attack this first statement in a bad way but....meh...

I would say give them hell AFTER you tried to be nice about it constructively. More people are more inclined to listen to you if you let them know and a lot of newbies actually ask experienced players of that job what they need to play the job well. One sad thing I've noticed occasionally is that some experienced players in an LS with some newbies will not even say a word when asked a specific quest about a job the high-level players are good at.

So this actually falls back on: Are you really offering the help before you flame? Or are you flaming just to flame and cause you expect everyone to know what you know about that job? (there are tons of people I know like that, in-game and irl but I'm not gonna name any names) I admit I get irritated about a WHM where INT gear instead of a mixture of MND and MP gear, and don't get me started with a RDM dressed up like a PLD....::shudders:: but still it doesn't hurt to mention a problem constructively.

And to those noobs that don't listen :nono:: You're only hurting yourself, your reputation, and the likely hood that you would get very far in the game. Suck up the pride and except the advice people give you.:rtfm:

 

[Uzor]

Yeah, pretty much. Just like a dunes flame isn't viable. Neither is a qufim flame.

No, it was more a call of hypocrisy if that's what you were going to say. Which leads us to:

Of course, you can completely ignore my other gear, which includes either MP+ or hMP+, depending on if I'm resting or up. But outside of gear that I'll stop using in two or three levels, there's nothing out there for those two slots.

A lot of jobs don't have equipment that's an improvement over something else. I won't give someone shit for having pants with 7 defense instead of the ones 5 levels higher that gives 8 defense, as that won't make any great difference.

I was about to attack this first statement in a bad way but....meh...

I would say give them hell AFTER you tried to be nice about it constructively. More people are more inclined to listen to you if you let them know and a lot of newbies actually ask experienced players of that job what they need to play the job well. One sad thing I've noticed occasionally is that some experienced players in an LS with some newbies will not even say a word when asked a specific quest about a job the high-level players are good at.

So this actually falls back on: Are you really offering the help before you flame? Or are you flaming just to flame and cause you expect everyone to know what you know about that job? (there are tons of people I know like that, in-game and irl but I'm not gonna name any names) I admit I get irritated about a WHM where INT gear instead of a mixture of MND and MP gear, and don't get me started with a RDM dressed up like a PLD....::shudders:: but still it doesn't hurt to mention a problem constructively.

And to those noobs that don't listen :nono:: You're only hurting yourself, your reputation, and the likely hood that you would get very far in the game. Suck up the pride and except the advice people give you.:rtfm:

No, I'm not rude at first. But if you know ANYTHING about how the human brain works, you'd know that giving "constructive criticism" (aka. saying something bad about someone to their face), is often taken in a bad way. Especially over the Internet when you can't use body language and voice tones.

Sure, you can say something like "Not to be rude, but you'd do much better with MP rings instead of STR rings" to the RDM, but it is very likely he'll take it in a bad way anyway. "Not to be rude" can, to the person you say it to, be taken as irony. If someone you don't know walked up to you and said "Not to be rude, but that sweater you're wearing isn't very good-looking on you", you'd most likely take that offensive. And trust me, if he don't listen to my advice, I will give him hell about it. That party, or next time I meet him.

However, as I said before, there's not a very wide selection of gear at lower levels, hence why I don't really care about gear at that level. So the only thing left is people that do stupid things, like pulling with melee, in which case I tell them how they can be more effective. The only thing left to complain about is stupid SJ choices.

However, you brought up "There are much worse things to worry about at that level". And I just want to know, exactly what is it that's so much worse to worry about? The single greatest reason for bad parties at that level, is either bad party set-ups, which can be prevented by making the party alone etc. Or simply bad SJ selection. Everything else is rather minor. +10 accuracy and attack is a lot at that level, since your total attack and accuracy can be in the 60-80 range, depending on your job. That's a 12,5% increase in attack or accuracy, which is almost the same % increase Sole Sushi etc. gives at higher levels, and you know how much of a difference those gives.

 

[Itachiii]

I have level 8 pants and hands on my Scholar16. It's funny.

So what's so funny about that? You make it sound like your gear could use some major improvements.

 

[Phraust]

From skimming this "Flame" I think people lost sight of what dual wield really is.

From reading it seems like the majority look at dual wield like you get 1 weapon and its mirrored in your off hand. No, you don't get a 10% delay reduction, you get a 10% reduction on the combined delay of your weapons. And you forget you can use a faster weapon in your offhand, or one with a good DPS, but low base damage/low WS choice. For instance thief: at 20 dual wielding a Sword/Dagger versus using /War, /Rng, etc is quite acceptable conisdering you could get the benefit of using a weapon that fairs better for damage WS wise and base damage wise, while getting the speed of the included dagger. 1 sword doing 4 attacks in time X, or a Sword/Dagger combo doing 6 attacks in time X. You make the choice.

Other than that, it's all kinda BS really. I mean... You're only 20... not like anything is really going to make that much of a difference..

Shit's situational. Depending on the circumstances, different subjobs work out a lot better, some don't.

For instance:

2 handed buff(even after nerf) made subbing Rng pre 30 kinda pointless, the acc boost is negligable.

Using /drg at 20 - 50ish on most jobs that can't split weapons reliably like mnk, or drk gives you attack bonus early on, and also drops a raw 5% haste(earring) and 6 attack(mantle) at 30.

In most instances, you can and will change subs. I tettered back and forth on Mnk using /war for when I knew i'd Pull hate and need Defense boost, /drg when I could use the attack boost liek being power leveled, /rng when I was entering a new zone and was at the bottom of the Acc/Eva curve, and /drg 30+ because of the benefits it offers mnk until 50.

But suggesting that a 10% reduction in delay coupled with offhand delay reducers it stupid, is well... stupid... Is a 25% speed increase a bad thing?

 

[Myrrh]

From reading it seems like the majority look at dual wield like you get 1 weapon and its mirrored in your off hand. No, you don't get a 10% delay reduction, you get a 10% reduction on the combined delay of your weapons. And you forget you can use a faster weapon in your offhand, or one with a good DPS, but low base damage/low WS choice. For instance thief: at 20 dual wielding a Sword/Dagger versus using /War, /Rng, etc is quite acceptable conisdering you could get the benefit of using a weapon that fairs better for damage WS wise and base damage wise, while getting the speed of the included dagger. 1 sword doing 4 attacks in time X, or a Sword/Dagger combo doing 6 attacks in time X. You make the choice.

People seem to forget not many lowbie people know exactly how dual wield works. Like I said before, Dunes is Kindergarten. Don't expect someone in Kindergarten to know their times tables. And if you go back to "It's Qufim, not the dunes" shut up. What's one grade higher then Kindergarten? Grade 1. It's been a while since I did grade one but I don't think they're teaching them times tables yet. Once someone gets to AT LEAST 30+, then you can yell at them all you want for doing stupid shit, they should have learned to play by then.

 

[Uzor]

From skimming this "Flame" I think people lost sight of what dual wield really is.

From reading it seems like the majority look at dual wield like you get 1 weapon and its mirrored in your off hand. No, you don't get a 10% delay reduction, you get a 10% reduction on the combined delay of your weapons. And you forget you can use a faster weapon in your offhand, or one with a good DPS, but low base damage/low WS choice. For instance thief: at 20 dual wielding a Sword/Dagger versus using /War, /Rng, etc is quite acceptable conisdering you could get the benefit of using a weapon that fairs better for damage WS wise and base damage wise, while getting the speed of the included dagger. 1 sword doing 4 attacks in time X, or a Sword/Dagger combo doing 6 attacks in time X. You make the choice.

Other than that, it's all kinda BS really. I mean... You're only 20... not like anything is really going to make that much of a difference..

Shit's situational. Depending on the circumstances, different subjobs work out a lot better, some don't.

For instance:

2 handed buff(even after nerf) made subbing Rng pre 30 kinda pointless, the acc boost is negligable.

Using /drg at 20 - 50ish on most jobs that can't split weapons reliably like mnk, or drk gives you attack bonus early on, and also drops a raw 5% haste(earring) and 6 attack(mantle) at 30.

In most instances, you can and will change subs. I tettered back and forth on Mnk using /war for when I knew i'd Pull hate and need Defense boost, /drg when I could use the attack boost liek being power leveled, /rng when I was entering a new zone and was at the bottom of the Acc/Eva curve, and /drg 30+ because of the benefits it offers mnk until 50.

But suggesting that a 10% reduction in delay coupled with offhand delay reducers it stupid, is well... stupid... Is a 25% speed increase a bad thing?

For some jobs its OK, yes, but for most jobs it gives no benefit. WAR, for example, are better of using great axe. Better damage then axe, better accuracy, better attack, much better WS's. DNC, as an example, doesn't get bee stinger.

 

[Xalioniaf]

So what's so funny about that? You make it sound like your gear could use some major improvements.

You commented on my post twice.
Can I have you as a pet? I'll change your name to Lucy, we can be bestest pals <3

 

[Keryan]

other stats

I would point out that at lv 20 on up daggers give nice stats. some give acc and evasion bonus, some are acc and att bonus. I know when i Leveled thf I went /nin at 20 because of the bonuses i got from my weapons. If a thf hits for 0 you gain no TP. and if said thf dies on pull back... well you know exp sucks. I would have to say you only looked at it from a dmg view and what a SJ can give if it was a non /nin. Dancer CAN NOT gain tp if they miss. so poping on 2 daggers that up their hit % I think is worth it even if they hit a tad slower. At least they would hit.

Also think about race. I am elvaan <all elvaans are a little cross eyed> I would chose weapons that helped increase my lack of accuracy. So I would recommend thinking about the weapons they are using while /nin instead of omg 10% reduction. Please remember there is no acc rings til lv 30. all there are is the lv 14 rings that for single handed weapons = 1 acc. So getting +4 acc or more at lv 20 can be a great help to the party. Please remember this would be more for dagger jobs.

I also recall before the 2 hander upgrade the reason so many warriors used dual wield was because missing once with a great axe was a big 0 dmg, but missing once with dual wield axes meant you still hit with 1 of the axes. many a party got mad when they saw I was a Great axe warrior back then. So on jobs other than dancer and thf i think you have a complaint for /nin at 20. But I think your wrong to disregard the other stats daggers give. There are more to them than delay.

 

[Dejavu]

why is it always jackasses with less than 100 posts that necrobump shit...

Its been over a month the thread was dead