the new tank

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My gawd. I didnt realize people where that narrowminded and behind. Seriously.
Well, lemme help you guys out.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26125&hilit=red+mage+rdm+tank

This is a discussion about tanking mechanics by some of the most prominent and accomplished members on BG. Notice how rdm/nin is discussed not as a novelty tank, but as something established and wellknows to all. (Except this server obviously)

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28424&p=879754&hilit=rdm+tank#p879754

Another tank-discussion where rdm/nin is discussed as a wellknown and accepted tank. Again by the more prominent and accomplished BG-members.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28376&p=877337&hilit=rdm+tank#p877337

A jailer of Hope strategy discussion. Lo and behold, rdm/nin comes up as a well accepted tank. Nu,mer of raised eyebrows = 0.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9013&p=870384&hilit=rdm+tank#p870384

Another one.


I wonder if these are the types of posts and discussions Bajaratt claims not to exist. well, to cover my bases im gonna go ahead and see if there is a guide to.

http://belkinator.livejournal.com/

The rdm/nin tank guide was made in august 2007, bottom of the page. It was a well accepted tank even then, a good 5 months from now, and most you guys havent even heard of it yet. Belkin is a well known BG-visitor, but if you need any more testiment to show he has a clue what he talks about, just read the whole page.

I wonder where else you can see rdm/nin beeing a widely accepted tank.

Ffxiclopedia said:
Strategy without using 2 hours:

* Tank Party: 2 tanks (pld/nin, nin/drk, rdm/nin all work fine) (tanks should use +Fire Resist gear), WHM (WHM should have Shellra V, capped barspell merits and AF2 legs), SMN, BRD, RDM
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Full post here
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Early_Bird_Catches_the_Wyrm/Strategies



Now i can probably find more, but most of you seem content with closing your eyes and banging your ears while screaming "lalalalalala". I really dont know what more i can do to educate you guys in something thats been widely accepted on other servers for the last 1-2 years or so. If you still need more info about it, i suggest you make a post on BG with your questions. Probably best to post in "FFXI: Newbie Advice and Standard Player Discussion" section though.
 
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RDM is not a needed tank job for those fights, they came from people getting bored. Tiamat has been getting killed for a plethora of years before RDM was tried as a novelty. Those who have used it, do. Those who don't use it, don't. So you can use a rdm to tank tiamat, big deal. I've Not used a rdm to kill tiamat more times than you have used one to kill it. They both work, stop acting like a novelty is groundbreaking. Stop acting like BG is the end-all be-all for decisions as well. If it was, you wouldn't be posting here in the first place.
Why this hasn't been split and moved to end-game discussion yet is beyond me. Hellstorm is the only one actually making argumentative points (all-be-it bad ones) relating to the OP. The rest of the replies are mindless banter about RDM's being 'able' to tank. Not being a tank class.
BTW caerloc, you missed quite a few phrases while quoting me. I'd appreciate you responding to those as well, rather than only one phrase that proved you were semi-relative to the discussion.
 
jamal said:
Tanking in an experience environment. This thread is "The New Tank". Not the new endgame tank. All replies should be thinking with the OP in mind. I'll laugh that all the way to sweden.
45seconds to 1min in an exp. party and your party is DEAD. Seriously, shut the fuck up. And guess what, I could answer your HNM questions. I've tanked more than you and haven't done one in over a year. WAR / PLD / NIN ALL accumulate hate faster than RDM, which is what Skaw said. Any job properly outfitted can tank an HNM. BRD's tanked Fafnir / Nid for crying out loud. A WHM/RDM 'could' tank an HNM, they have access to the EXACT same spells. Just because you 'can' do it because its been done before doesn't make it a tanking job.
A tanking job is a viable tank THROUGHOUT the gaming process.
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Lets see again then. I answered the OP part. I never argued that RDm could tank in exp, they cant. Cant help you with the shut the fuck up. Assumption on your side that you know what i have and have not tanked, on wich jobs and characters i've tanked and how many times i did it. You spent what, 6-9 months in Aery like 3 years ago with Kaizen and later did a few aery-visits with element before it disbanded and 3 years later consider yourself hot shit, #1 endgame vet, totally ignoring the fact that people spent alot of time there since, not to mention the fact that new HNM's has been introduced wich you havent even touched?
WAR/PLD/NIN may all well accumulate hate faster, i never argued that. But when it comes to stable hate for a low upkeep rdm is unparalled. Blind is ½ the hate of a flash/stun at 5 mp cost and 10 sec recast unhasted. Thats just 1 spell. You'd have to go through the guides i posted if you want full info. I wouldnt go as far as say any job, you need access to damage mitigation and hate tools, alot of jobs loose acess to one when subbing for another. But i agree to an extent. We often use DRK/NIN as main tank for tiamat, just because it speeds the fight up incredibly. And BRD tanked alot more then faf/nid before Mazurka was nerfed, they tanked everything stationary. And like mentioned, some jobs loose acess to hate tools when subbing for survivaility and viceversa. But whm specifiv doesnt need rdm sub to acess hate tools. WHM/NIN has already sucessfully tanked tiamat. I never argued that rdm was a fullblown tanking class. I argued rdm can tank hnm's. Not only "can" but they do a damn good job at it.

Now did i miss anything?
 
jamal said:
RDM is not a needed tank job for those fights, they came from people getting bored. Tiamat has been getting killed for a plethora of years before RDM was tried as a novelty. Those who have used it, do. Those who don't use it, don't. So you can use a rdm to tank tiamat, big deal. I've Not used a rdm to kill tiamat more times than you have used one to kill it. They both work, stop acting like a novelty is groundbreaking. Stop acting like BG is the end-all be-all for decisions as well. If it was, you wouldn't be posting here in the first place.
Why this hasn't been split and moved to end-game discussion yet is beyond me. Hellstorm is the only one actually making argumentative points (all-be-it bad ones) relating to the OP. The rest of the replies are mindless banter about RDM's being 'able' to tank. Not being a tank class.
BTW caerloc, you missed quite a few phrases while quoting me. I'd appreciate you responding to those as well, rather than only one phrase that proved you were semi-relative to the discussion.
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Well no shit? Tiamat was being killed before people came up with DRK/NIN to. Maybe we should all go back to Aerial Armor rotations and war/whms? That was the most stupid thing i have seen you say to date. Lets stop the progress, we are happy as is. Further improvement not necessary, stuff are already being killed.

RDM isnt a novelty.. Its over a year old and the staple tank for alot of linkshells through-out the servers.

Sure BG may not be the "end all be all" but its still where most of the servers leading linkshells get together and discuss what we apparently shun on this server, progress. Its where strategys for 6 man jorms, 6 man cerbs, 6-8 man ultimas are developed and refined. Id the majority of the BG members says something is effective, it most likely is.
But as you can see by my joindate/postcount, its not like i post alot here.

And Hellstorm is a tard. Im not gonna bve arguing rdm melee or rdm exp-tanking.
 
Reminder

This thread is supposed to be about a job that can tank from low levels on up. Probably why it has not been moved to endgame. REMEMBER sble to tank from low levels on up to 75, not just end game things.

I doubt Thief will be a new tank job. We have evasion but our armor has defense the same as a mages in most cases. Our relic and dragon gear has emnity, but that is high level not really for lower level tanking.

Warrior can tank even at higher levels, this has been seen in parties. People just do not like that they require more MP than a ninja or paladin. I still remember that warrior that moved every sata because he "was not a tank". Needless to say the party <lv 64> disbanded after his comment since he slowed us down so much.

I think it would be easier to make Samurai a tank as they already can use some heavy armor. SE could just add samurai as able to wear the other heavy armor, and make a voke move like they did for dancer.

Lastly Ninja was never made to be a tank, the players made it one. Even now more players are using a Cannon style hate system at lower levels when they can not get a traditional tank. I have been in parties at level 50 with 3 samurai. one will be /warr for 1st voke the other 2 /nin. We made chains of 5 and killed in a good amount of time.
 
Caerloc said:
Lets see again then. I answered the OP part. I never argued that RDm could tank in exp, they cant. Cant help you with the shut the fuck up. Assumption on your side that you know what i have and have not tanked, on wich jobs and characters i've tanked and how many times i did it. You spent what, 6-9 months in Aery like 3 years ago with Kaizen and later did a few aery-visits with element before it disbanded and 3 years later consider yourself hot shit, #1 endgame vet, totally ignoring the fact that people spent alot of time there since, not to mention the fact that new HNM's has been introduced wich you havent even touched?
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15-18 months to be precise. 6 months was my string of non-missed Fafnir camps. Not to mention tanking the very first vrtra's on the server, the establishment of the first serious competition with the JPN of Tiamat...this being all before Auto-refresh, before parade gorgets. Anyone could tank things now because of the job buffs. Being 'old-school' in your thinking before merits and job changes made everything in this game much much easier is not being closed minded, its being realistic.
I don't consider myself the know-it-all on everything endgame. I'd consider myself a physical damage expert actually...and rarely do I comment outside of that realm. I do however realize the fact that this tanking ability came up out of boredom. It works, sure. But to be a tanking class, not tank certain fights, you need to be able to tank exp mobs, which hellstorm is the only one arguing. You keep saying you're not arguing that they can, I'm saying thats why you need to stop talking all-together. You're calling our entire server 'behind' for not seeing RDM as a tank class in a discussion about the new tanking jobs, when this discussion shouldn't even be happening here.
I'd freely admit that RDM is such a versatile job they can do many many things in the game, one of which being tanking certain HNMs...but that admission should come in end-game discussion, not here.
The new HNM's you have me on sure, but they can still be tanked just as well by a normal tanking class. RDM can be used as an endgame tank, they can do a damn good job at it. So could any other job. Is MNK now a tank-class because they tank salvage? No, they're a DD-Class job that their benefits work in certain situations to allow them to tank.

Nice flamebait too.
 
If memory serves, RDM tank actually deceloped as an attempt to tackle Ultima's citadell buster in a fool proof way, not out of boredom. (Came out as a sucess to, about 400-700 dmg through stoneskin) After that people experimented with it on other HNM's and found that it can be used at pretty much all of them, but excel at fights involving heavy magic dmg, such as Ultima and JoL.

And again, i explained my reasoning as to why i brought it up in this thread to begin with, we read the OP differently. I would gladly leave the subject if people woulda just said something like "Fine, rdm can tank HNM's, but we are discussing possible tank-classes that can fill all needs throughiut the gaming process" but what people said instead was "lol rdm cant tank hnm stfu" and continuesly displayed their ignorance on the subject.

I would also continue the discussion in End game discussions if the thread was split and moved. But as long as people keep saying rdm cant tank hnm's, ill continue to say no you're wrong, they can. In whatever forum/thread its said.

As for the flamebaiting, i dont take being told to "Shut the fuck up" to well. I was gonna smear in on thicker, but i found some selfrestraint.

So to summarize; I do not under any circumstanses claim rdm to be fullblown tanking class throughout the gaming process. I will tell anyone, anywhere, that rdm infact can tank HNM's and do a good job, if they claim the opposite.
 
Fuck this thread, sick of getting so many reports on it. Feel free to re-try it and acting like decent posters.
 
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