the new tank

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Not sure about SE's timeline if they meant they already made someone a new tank but failed or will implement very soon. I'm guessing the latter. I can only talk about jobs I'm very familiar with. I don't want to give false info.

Not sure about the following but fun to comment:

BST
We got Snarl. It rules for us. That could be the key to a new tank but first, I believe, SE needs to greatly reduce our Call Beast and or Reward timers. If that happens, we could be the new tank. BST/WAR do a weaponskill, voke, etc. Snarl and all of it transferres to the jug pet.


SAM
if we /DNC. Equipping a subjob isn't what SE meant I'm sure. I guess they mean to alter a MAIN job to tank. As it stands now, I thinkn a SAM/DNC could to it. I've done some amazing things with this combo including holding hate from those nasty Orc NMs in Jugner campaigns. I had x3 PLDs helping me and they were Flashing, Voking, etc. but I was taking a lot of damage, curing myself reapeatedly for over 200ish each and dealing 400-700 ws's A LOT with soboro. The NM never looked at any of the 3 paladins.

I seriously doubt SE wanted to make SAM a tank by slapping on a DNC sub. I read they want to take this mysterious existing job (main) and alter it.

That my thoughts so far; just fun. It will be interesting to see what they do come up with.
 
Veld said:
My Buddy Atill is a Sam and he does some better tanking than some PLD and NIN I know. Sam is a awesome tank. He's tanked countless mobs.

He hates it I know but Sam is and can be a tank.

Maybe DNC/NIN could be a tank... I'm only 26, but I've soloed vt mobs. With the right gear they might be fairly effective.

They can Cure, Curega, Debuff, Stun, Provoke, have a fairly good Eva. Dancer can generate some nifty hate and keep it from my experience.

Just my 2 cents
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DNC/NIN yeah possibly, but I'm wondering what scope SE meant by "Existing Job". I can't recall but I think that issued statement was before DNC, and SCH. Because the mysterious THIRD job was a retooled existing one. With that in mind, I don't think SE meant Dancer main.
 
Mishaela said:
Saying Counterstance makes MNK a bad tank is silly since it's an entirely optional JA. That's like saying Zerk makes PLD/WAR a bad tank. =P

BLU already get Cocoon, which is a rather powerful defensive spell as is. They could make rather good tanks with the right setup but I can't see many (if any) sacrificing their /NIN sub for a non-MP-based hate tool.
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Exuviation is stupid amounts of hate, Diffusion Exuviation hitting 6 people is even more so. Ultimately, of course, a BLU - or any job really - would have to do two things to be a general purpose tank:

1. Generate and maintain hate effectively, reliably, and quickly.
2. Not be a pain to keep alive, so some good sort of damage mitigation (be it zeroing damage entirely like utsu or stoneskin, or simply cutting it down like defense, VIT, or -dmg%).

If you subtract the "quickly" part from point 1, then a job can be an effective tank period, but would need more time to build hate. This means a job can be a perfectly suitable tank for long drawn out fights (hi2u RDMs), but wouldn't be a viable tank in exp or anything that involves a large number of trash mobs (like most stuff in Dynamis, Einherjar, Limbus, etc.).
 
I know Mnk has always been considered a soft Tank job. Before Nin the three main jobs for tanking were Pld, War, and Mnk. Of course this was with the idea that the player base wouldn’t be fighting IT mobs. Even the Mnk’s guarding skill is pretty amazing as it is almost equal if not greater then a shield block. But anyone who has lvled mnk will tell you that guarding is an almost useless skill for mnks in exp parties.
I think to make mnk a stronger tanker with the lest amount of change would be to change the Mnk’s Dodge ability so as to dodge more attacks.
With that said mnk could either dodge an attack towards them, guard to reduce damage greatly (since guarding will actually be capped since tanking), Counterstance to counter an attack, or get hit really hard for a lot of damage. 1/4 the mnk is going to need a heal which is why there are whms in a party and for the mnk's high Vit and HP.

Mnk and Sam both get the tanking gear that Nins can use as well so there wouldn’t be a need to bring in new armor. Also Mnks pull hate with counterstance, chakra, and Chi blast as well as do quite a lot of damage to keep hate so with a few added enmity points from gear, /war may not be needed and /dnc becomes a very interesting combo. With /dnc a Mnk/dnc will have an added provoke for the beginning of the fight as well as a regen ability and since mnks can gain tp almost as fast as Sams I don’t see /dnc as hurting the mnk’s ws damage ability.
SE also mentioned that they were thinking about adding another Stance for mnks, something maybe along the lines of a kick attack stance. With this the fights would go by very quickly and higher chains achieved and so weaker mobs could be fought rather then the typical ITs.

The player base has changed the jobs drastically from the original concepts so i really do not know what SE might be thinking about doing now. And i haven't really had any experince with playing Sam so not sure about that job. although Blu does look like a very possible tank and would be interesting to see a mage tank as well.
 
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RDM, don't under estimate the power of rdm they are already decent tanks on hnm, with few small change they could be tanks for anything. With dispel and bind we already have the hate tools and with a armor buff we won't even need nin sub. rdm/pld next tank for 2008.
 
for Kale's thing on BLU:

Yeah I play BLU too; 75. I did say I'll talk about what I know but I didn't mention BLU. I just didn't feel comfortable enough to list it as a tank. Under the correct situations, (isn't that always the golden phrase with BLU? ^^), yes it can tank. I was just thinking of SE's intent to modify an existing job. Somehow I get the gut feeling that it isn't BLU. I am one so not knocking it. Most of the time these type of specualtion posts are just entertainment while we wait for the delivery of the patch(es). I may be wrong. I've only listed 2 possiblilities over 20(?) jobs minus pld and nin so odds are I'm wrong.

I think I didn't list BLU as a tank because of MP. I'm a galka blu 75 and sometimes have mp issues. I don't have a lot of issues but MP can get thin sometimes. With my jobs I did mention (Bst and Sam/dnc), both of those can just keep going and going w/ little or no rest. I know the Sam/Dnc can go until I'M tired and I have to rest IRL. BUt the job can go non-stop. As a BLU, I'd have to stop and rest. Then again PLDs have to stop and rest too.
 
hellstorm said:
RDM tnakign shud be new ting for evryting
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Every time you post something like that, it should be considered flamebaiting and treated as such. You're even wearing on my nerves with your nonsense, I have a shitload of patience.

Back on topic: I agree with many valid points already brought up in this thread, SAM tanking is insane when done correctly, seen WAR tanking, and MNK tanking with fully skilled block and etc is great as well, hard to just pick one.
 
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DRG Tankings a pretty decent possibility with a few minor alterations. Specifically healing breath threshold. Throw in two jumps that act like inverses to High and Super(Increase Enmity, rather than shed,) on the same reuse timer as the existing ones, like they did with some of the BST pet commands.
 
Skaw said:
DRG Tankings a pretty decent possibility with a few minor alterations. Specifically healing breath threshold. Throw in two jumps that act like inverses to High and Super(Increase Enmity, rather than shed,) on the same reuse timer as the existing ones, like they did with some of the BST pet commands.
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Not a bad idea really, but is there any decent gear to tank in that DRG can use? I've never personally looked for such a thing before so I'm not sure if it even exists.
 
Skaw said:
Shut the fuck up.
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Gatttsu said:
Every time you post something like that, it should be considered flamebaiting and treated as such. You're even wearing on my nerves with your nonsense, I have a shitload of patience.

Back on topic: I agree with many valid points already brought up in this thread, SAM tanking is insane when done correctly, seen WAR tanking, and MNK tanking with fully skilled block and etc is great as well, hard to just pick one.
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Hey, I know you would like to keep rdm to be the healer/refresh, but the simple truth they can be so much more. We already have the basic tools that pld (except def), but we get refresh, more mp, and dmg migration spells/equipment, stoneskin. With A couple new abilities/low lvl -dmg gear and you can see rdm tanking from lvl 33 onward. A rdm would be the easiest to convert to a tank other then maybe mnk. (war is already a tank)
 
Gatttsu said:
Not a bad idea really, but is there any decent gear to tank in that DRG can use? I've never personally looked for such a thing before so I'm not sure if it even exists.
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Not really, you pretty much wear same gear rdm wear, with few exception, and there very few good tank gear for low to mid lvls.
 
hellstorm said:
Hey, I know you would like to keep rdm to be the healer/refresh, but the simple truth they can be so much more. We already have the basic tools that pld (except def), but we get refresh, more mp, and dmg migration spells/equipment, stoneskin. With A couple new abilities/low lvl -dmg gear and you can see rdm tanking from lvl 33 onward. A rdm would be the easiest to convert to a tank other then maybe mnk. (war is already a tank)
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Yeah, you have survivability(a lot is due to utsusemi), but you completely lack hate tools. RDM has nothing that would let them quickly gain or maintain hate. Saying that RDM could tank if they added in tanking abilities/spells/gear is retarded, more so than even your usual level of stupidity. Stop being an idiot and trying to make RDM into more than what it already is and giving it far more than it should have.
 
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Dancer or blue mage. Dancer already has great evasion and can stick hate on themselves over time fairly well. I am just guessing kind of like how brd/nin used to be dnc will also be able to pull it off especially if they came out with some gear to support it.
 
hellstorm said:
Not really, you pretty much wear same gear rdm wear, with few exception, and there very few good tank gear for low to mid lvls.
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I have to wonder

Do you know what Healing Breath is?

An increase in the threshold for it's activation would result in very little need for better defense equipment on EXP mobs.

Also(/), you don't (b) need mp (r) to use it (d.)

Lets see if you can find the hidden message.
 
hellstorm said:
Not really, you pretty much wear same gear rdm wear, with few exception, and there very few good tank gear for low to mid lvls.
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You do realize you're sounding like a big hypocrite right? "rud maeg caen tenk, but dargoon ca'nt becaz I sed so!"

Also, to point something else out.
pchan said:
pup/nin and make strobe give enmity to the master.
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Ventriloquy? It's gotta suck when I know more about your job than you :/
 
Lost my entire response to a power blink so I'll cut to the chase, I made a pretty picture to spell it out for you, it even has blinking colors to get your damn attention.

RDMstuff.gif
 
LOL (letters)
 
A few thoughts

RDM used to have flash. Thats why they have divne skill. There are more videos of RDM's soloing gods, sky NM's and other major NM's than any other job. I just don't see a rdm being able to tank and keep up all the support they are needed to do for a party to pull the EXP people like. Those spells at 40 per cast eat up MP. But then again there are rdms redefining what people think they can do

I think Pchan was talking about lower lv not Merit. Rather than act like your smarter read the part where it said existing jobs to be new tank. Would imply from low lv all the way up to 75. My 35 puppet only has voke with /war. I can not take eminty from my pet, Also the pet has a timer like a drg. They would have to modify pup more to make it main tank up into the 70's. Personally I wish the

Puppet and blue mages can tank well if they have thf to set hate. I tanked in a JP party from 31~33 as pup/war. It would up being a mini cannon since my puppet cured me a lot. This was before whm helm for the puppet. As for Blu my friend Devien and I staticed together to 73. when our pld dced in kuftal at lv 53 he tanked the crabs. The drg 1st voked and I sataed Viperbite Devien. he used his spells to mitigate the dmg, heal and spammed voke to keep hate.

Looking at this from my experience with monks in salvage it would not suprise me if they were given JA to keep hate.

I think the real question is no matter the job they make able to be tank, will the player be willing to be a tank and possibly have to pass on being a big DD. I for one do not see a drk, sam, monk giving up the fun of whacking the monster with great hits just to tank.
 
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