The real America! 9/11 and all. The thread you've been waiting for.

[Bustaballs]

I cannot sum up the entire real America in just one post. I can, however, give you the proper resources to find out this information for yourselves. I will mention a few things before supplying you with my list of current resources. Keep in mind that I've only been compiling them for about four days so I don't have too much at the moment, but it will expand greatly and be placed and organized in my future website. My website will consist of factual information about what has been going on in America in the past century that mainstream media and US history books don't teach you. I will, however, have a seperate section with theorys but they will be labeled. There will also be a rating bar to determine it's credibility and it's level of theory throughout it's contents. I will mention the URL once a first version is ready.


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CONSPIRICY THEORYS

Conspiracy theorys. What do you think of when you hear those combined words? The first thing that pops into most peoples heads is UFOs, Area 51, and similar things. This leads them to be turned off and assume anything further said is false. A conspiracy, by definition, is an agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. A theory, by definition, is an assumption based on limited information or knowledge. So basicly, an assumption that two or more people are planning to do something wrongful, based on evidence, is a conspiracy theory. Now I want you to look at the conspiracy theorist of the 9/11 attacks. What they have done is by the definition. They take some evidence and they make an assumption. The missle theory of the pentagon was based on many eyewitness reports saying it sounded like a missle and some other things. The missle theory was based on a flashing helicopter in the smoke above the WTC building with what appeared to be something falling onto the building and followed by an explosion.

Now while the pentagon missle theory has been proven wrong, many of the others have not, reguardless of what a crappy, lying magazine tells you. Now lets look at the other side and assume the government is telling us the truth about everything. They say we are at war with Iraq because they have WMDs that they could use in the future to attack America. That, my friends, is a CONSPIRACY THEORY. You can use that example alone to find many others. The government uses conspiracy theorys all of the time to get their way.

A large amount of people on both sides, in many cases, take certain things a bit too far to defend themselves. While I was on a anti-NWO forum, many of the people there believed everything they are told by the theorists. They followed like sheep with no minds of their own. If I brought up an official story, they would accuse the resource origin to be controlled by the government. No matter what you decide, please have a mind of your own. Don't just straight out believe anything that you are told by theorists unless they have plenty of facts, credible resources, and proof to back it up that is avalible to you. Do the research for yourself and make your own decisions.
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Now onto my current resources. The current main focus is on 9/11. The only debunking of the theorys placed were the official stories and magazine articles. You should all know the official "pancake" and "domino" theorys by now. You should all know the reports by FEMA and NOVA. You should all know of a certain Popular Mechanics article called "Debunking the Myths". You should all know of the 9-11 Commission Final Report. People posted their questions in previous threads and the others mentioned these official stories and theorys. I have many things that prove these things wrong. I have extensive information that has answered nearly every question I have been asking myself since I started my research. My current research is only proving everything more and more.

First off, I'd like to show you the PM magazine's article called "Debunking the Myths". Now I want to show you article that not only shows that, like Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 movie, things were taken out of context, the truth was stretched, and in some cases they flat out lied.

Debunking the Myths - click

Popular Mechanics Attacks Its "9/11 LIES" Straw Man - click

Also, a famous author and 9/11 researcher mentions some of their lies in a speech he gives HERE - click

There are many other places that show many of the things in the magazine as false.

Next, I'd like to mention the FEMA, NOVA, and 9/11 Commission conclusions and any other conclusion that may promote the official story. I've found massive amounts of things that disprove these stories but there were only a few that impressed me. I'll post those now.

Articles:

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html - A long and detailed scientific explination of proving the use of demolition that disproves the official stories. You can also find more proof of things explained in this article HERE. <- click

http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html - This is my favorite article on the matter because the author made me laugh a good bit. If you don't like to read, there's a video readout of it HERE <- clicky.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/towers/introduction.html - Step by step debunking that's very understandable for even the dumbest of people.

http://www.attackonamerica.net/proofofcontrolleddemolitionatwtc.htm - A engineering expert explaining how the towers were taken down by controlled demolition.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_wtc_videos.html - The 9/11 WTC Collapses: An Audio-Video Analysis.

Videos:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248 - Jeff King, a MIT engineer, goes into detail why the WTC Towers and WTC 7 were brought down by explosives.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3538037502590699697 - A famous author and researcher of 9/11 giving a speech at a university and telling them the facts about the government. It mainly focuses on 9/11 evidence that they had prior knowledge and that the WTC were taken down by demolition.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603 - 9/11 Eyewitness. This has been posted by me and others before. No one ever debunked the science used in this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3221571017565436923 - A video that goes into certain details of evidence that prove that the government knew about the attacks beforehand and points out lies put in the 9/11 Commission. It brings up some points that have yet to be mentioned anywhere else that I've looked.

1975 WTC Fire

Now I'll move onto some more specific things. Anyone who's done research on the situation should know about the mentioning that the fireproof testing on the WTC was never declared as finished. What very few people know is about the 1975 WTC fire. First we'll look at an article that explains the "no fireproof testing" and then we'll move onto showing you information about the 1975 WTC fire and then move to a article that talks about the the "no fireproof testing" and uses the 1975 fire to compare and debunk.

http://www.mishalov.com/wtc_firetest.html - An article that talks about how there was no fire testing done on the WTC.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/history/fire.html - A quick summary of the 1975 WTC fire.

http://www.total911.info/2005/04/1975-wtc-fire-burned-six-floors-for.html - High quality scanned images of NYT coverage on the 1975 fire.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/wtc-demolition.htm - More debunking of the 9/11 WTC official stories with mention of the 1975 WTC fire and many other skyscrapper fires in history.

The Silversteen "pull" Story.

I'm sure all of you know about Silversteen's interview that was shown on PBS where he said he was told to "pull" WTC7. Pull is a well known term that means to take down using explosives. Here's some things on that.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329 - Larry Silverstein admitting that he was told to "pull" the WTC7 building.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2006/050106silversteinanswers.htm - Article breaking down Silverstein's explination of what he meant by "pull" and other things.




Now that you've seen all of this, I'll move onto mention a eyewitness that is simply amazing evidence of demolition in the WTC.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/24-Jun-2005.html - A hero janitor of the WTC that saved many lives and is a eyewitness of many things that happened in the WTC. Here is his story that the mainstream news won't cover.


Hitler and the reichstag event.

If you've seen everything above, you've heard a few times about the reichstag fire in Germany. The following article compares that fire with the 9/11 happenings.

http://www.911-strike.com/reichstag.htm - A comparison of the Reichstag event in Nazi Germany and the happening of 9/11.

The 1993 WTC Bombing

There is evidence of this being a cover-up as well. I'll mention just a couple of things I've found during my brief research on it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3afce96c0edd.htm - An article called "The FBI and the Mad Bombers". It shows much evidence about previous cover-ups of the US government, including the Oklahoma City bombing and the '93 WTC bombing.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtcbomb.html - NYT article on how the 1993 bombing was allowed to happen by the FBI. I looked in the NYT website archives to find this article for people that might deny it's existance look HERE (<- clicky). The actual NYT article ON the NYT official website.

Well that about covers the WTC stuff. I want to move onto some other things now. American cover-ups and things the mainstream media and US history books never teach you. I'm going to briefly go into just a few things. 9/11 has been my main study. Now that I have enough proof on that, I've been moving on to the other things. I'm about to work on looking into the US "concentration camps", all of the US wars from WWII and on, specific assassinations including Martin Luther King Jr. and JFK, the previous WTC bombing, and the OK City bombing just to name a few. I'll mention a few things I've already looked into and still am. Before I go into them:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035 - A great documentary on the mainstream hidden happenings of what the US government has been doing to the world since post WWII.

PLEASE EVERYONE WATCH THIS!! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! It's the greatest thing I've seen out of all of my research. If I had money, I'd pay people to watch this.

Pearl Harbor

It is widely thought by common people that we had previous knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attacks. It's been mentioned on the History Channel many times. If that's the case then it was allowed to happen as an excuse to go to war. Here is some information I've found.

http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/04-04-05/discussion.cgi.67.html - Explains how Roosevelt knew about the attacks beforehand and how he used it as a means to go to war.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/pearl_harbor.htm - More detailed information about the Pearl Harbor deception.

http://home.flash.net/~manniac/pharbor.htm - Even more detailed information about the Pearl Harbor deception.

http://teacher.scholastic.com/pearl/transcript.htm - Students interview Pearl Harbor eyewitnesses.

http://www.despardes.com/foi/120805-1941-pearl-harbor.html - A article going into some detail about the popular book "Day of Deceit" which talks about the facts of what happened during the Pearl Harbor event.

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/2337/1/49/ - Political Affairs article that discusses some things about the Pearl Harbor attacks.


New Orleans

New Orleans was a tragic event. It proved that Bush is an idiot. The following shows evidence that Bush had previous knowledge of the possibility that the hurricane could be powerful enough to cause serious damage, eyewitnesses that swear up and down that they saw the levees being blown up, shows that Bush didn't care about the incident, and many other things.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/new_orleans_bush.html - A coverage of combined articles (with links) that speak of Bush's failure of the hurricane Katrina disaster in New Orleans.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/orleans_levees.html - Briefly explains the 1927 "Great Flood of Mississippi" New Orleans disater and then goes on to talk about many eyewitness reports saying they saw the levees being blown up.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/orleans_index.html - Many articles going into the Katrina disater in New Orleans including the ones above.


Government Money Schemes.

Now, I don't like to refer to Alex Jones' videos for information but he always has a lot to back up the things he says. The thing is, he makes a lot of accusations that could be false even though he has evidence of most things. The following video is a bit different from his others in the way that he backs up nearly EVERYTHING he says with proof right on the video. It's pretty crazy stuff. The information is avalible to the public and yet no one noticed these happening until recently. The video is described as:

"ALEX JONES INTERVIEWS WALTER BURIEN, COMMODITY TRADING ADVISOR (CTA) of 15 YEARS ABOUT THE BIGGEST GAME IN TOWN.

THERE ARE OVER 85,000 FEDERAL AND REGIONAL GOVERNMENTAL INSTITUTIONS: SCHOOL DISTRICTS, WATER AND POWER AUTHORITIES, COUNTY AND CITY GOVERNMENTS -- AND THEY OWN OVER 70 PERCENT OF THE STOCK MARKET. AN ABSOLUTE MUST-SEE TO PULL BACK THE CURTAIN OF LIES ON THE PRIVATE TAKEOVER OF OUR SOCIETY.

THIS TAPE ALSO INCLUDES AN INTERVIEW WITH JOE BANISTER, FORMER IRS SPECIAL AGENT EXPOSING THAT THE IRS IS A COLLECTION AGENCY FOR THE PRIVATE, RUN-FOR-PROFIT FEDERAL RESERVE."

Here is the movie.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5823209513192072459 - Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports EXPOSED.

Even though I don't agree 100% with everything Alex says, I do agree with everything he has enough evidence or proof for and because of that, I still watch all of his videos and listen to his radio shows. I encourage you to look at his sites yourself, read the articles found on there, watch the videos on www.video.google.com or www.youtube.com and make your own judgements. His main sites are www.infowars.com and www.prisonplanet.com


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In conclusion, I'd like to state my opinions and thoughts on the matter. I believe that the US govenment is slowly and surely becoming a worldwide dictatorship. The patriot act was the worst thing that could have happened to this country. The government has been tearing apart our constitution for many decades but the patriot act just takes the cake. Who voted on that? Also, I'd like to mention these REAL IDs. Why spend 80+ BILLION dollars on this new ID unless you are putting tracking devices in it? It makes no since at all. Who voted on that? I refuse to allow this country to become a dictatorship while I am alive. I will do everything I can to show people the real America that they know nothing about. If we unite and work together, we can stop this evil government and make things the way our founding fathers intended.

If they can do something like issue the Patriot Act without our permission then they can do anything. This is suppose to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. We are losing more and more of our freedoms every day and where are our brave patriots defending our constitution? All I see is everyone hiding behind their "so-called" secruity.

Please, if you can understand this as the truth then please spread the word. In the mean time, I'm storing my list of resources in a temp folder on my BBOT website until I can get a v1.0 of my website on the real America. I'm also looking into working with Flash in order to create a nice looking and interactive website.

Once again, if you can understand this as the truth then please spread the word. I can never urge you enough. Thanks for reading and I look forward to future posts.

 

[Bustaballs]

I'd also like to show everyone a list of things that could happen in the future that we should look out for based on my research. The list is pretty small at the moment because I made it a couple of hours ago... heh. Well here's what I have so far.



1: Extentions or other things similar to the patriot act.

2: Arnold Shwollenpecka having the ability to become president.

3: Gun ban laws being passed.

4: Fingerprint ID being required in all types of stores, banks, schools, and other places throughout your towns and/or it becoming law to be required to fingerprint ID to make a transaction or recieve a reciept for any transaction.

5: Military patroling the American civilian streets on a regular basis.

6: US invasion of space and/or weapon defence technology in space allowing them to nuke any target of the world at any time with great accuracy and speed.

7: The REAL ID cards having tracking devices placed in them.

8: It becoming a requirment to recieve a microchip implant into your body for location and ID purposes like the ones people use on pets.

9: A terrorist attack in the near future that is as massive or more massive than the WTC and pentagon attacks.

10: A draft taking place.

11: A major earthquake in California in the near future that compares to or is more deadly than the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. (This is the only "natural" thing that will be mentioned. It has it's reasons.)



Heh.. I found FEMA covers of 1997 and 1999.

I cracked up laughing the first time I saw those.

 

[alanon]

Please just take your whole section on New Orleans off of there. It is horribly horribly biased and somewhat inaccurate. Your conclusions do not even match the articles.

 

[Bustaballs]

Hell if they don't.

I'm going to look into the pentagon information again.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154 - David Ray Griffin gives a speech they debunks the 9/11 Commission.

 

[hellstorm]

11: A major earthquake in California in the near future that compares to or is more deadly than the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. (This is the only "natural" thing that will be mentioned. It has it's reasons.)

everyone know this is coming the san andres fault has been a know thing sents early 70's they are just not sure when, or atleast they not saying.


your number 5 wont happen unlest 10 happen because there are already a lack of military people, simply put there not enough man power to patrol the US and fight a war

I dought #4 will happen either money reason and the fact that finger print can be duplicated.

lol with #8 now you starting go into the revelasion real biblical stuff there where it is possible that act will not be taken lightly at all.

 

[Bustaballs]

everyone know this is coming the san andres fault has been a know thing sents early 70's they are just not sure when, or atleast they not saying.

Do they know how powerful it will be? Also, I said in the near future. I predict five years or less. One of the reasons being that FEMA stated sometime before 9/11 (I don't remember the exact dates or anything. I'd have to look it up again. Also, don't quote me directly because I don't remember "exactly" what I read.) they had mentioned three major areas of possible disaster. One being an attack on the WTC. Second being the levees breaking at in New Orleans. Third being a massive earthquake in California. There are some other more minor reasons. Reguardless, I'll look more into it.

your number 5 wont happen unlest 10 happen because there are already a lack of military people, simply put there not enough man power to patrol the US and fight a war

This is a "wait and see" thing. They are beginning to have a lack of troops to handle everything. They see this leading toward needing a draft. If a draft happens then the people will realise that this is another Vietnam and be against the government. An idea is that the government would have to create another "terrorist attack" beforehand to make the draft more convincing.

Edit: I misread this. Number five is already happening to an extent. Watch the "9/11 Road to Tyranny" movie below. I also suggest "Police State", "Police State 2000", and "Police State 3". Certain police chiefs of certain towns agree to allow military to preform "training" in the towns. I'll link you to some things.

http://www.infowars.com/print/ps/creeping.htm
http://www.infowars.com/police_state.html

... I passed by this while looking at the site. This is too funny.

I dought #4 will happen either money reason and the fact that finger print can be duplicated.

It's already being required in certain banks, grocery stores, and schools across the country. Alex Jones was arrested for protesting this at a bank once. My school required students to have their IDs in order to get their lunches. It's only a matter of time.

Edit: Here's a pic of it.

lol with #8 now you starting go into the revelasion real biblical stuff there where it is possible that act will not be taken lightly at all.

What about the patriot act that goes completely against the Bill of Rights? The "biblical" stuff would be if they required it to be put in your forehead or right wrist. This would be an example of the anti-christ's coming on earth with the microchip being the mark of Lucifer. As for it not happening, I can give you endless amounts of resources about it.

Alex Jones is the biggest exposer of this microchip implant idea. You can see some of his evidence in a video called "9/11: The Road to Tyranny" and other evidence on his site. I'll link you.

http://www.infowars.com/microchips.html
http://www.infowars.com/print/bb/bajaimplant.htm


Thanks for the reply. =)

 

[Sculli]

I'd also like to show everyone a list of things that could happen in the future ... [11 things followed]

Personally I have no problem with either of those 11 things, some of which are already implemented in other democratic countries as its citizens realized the benefit they have over potential abuse.

That the US will nuke stuff from space is BS, nothing short of it. With the amount of nuclear capability in the world any use of nuclear weaponry will almost guarantee the destruction of the planet as we know it, even if just tactical nukes will be used. Enough others will get upset to retaliate using tactical nukes and it spirals from there.

The reason I do not buy into alternate explanations is that the larger an operation is, the more difficult it is to keep quiet about it. At some point some credible hard evidence (yeah, credible hard evidence, not circumstantial evidence) would surface and blow the whole thing wide open.

Check the NSA listening in on phonecalls. Very few people knew about that one (few in comparison to what would be needed to execute this alternate 9/11 thing), and still it got out almost as soon as it started, just that the WP choose to not release the info it got till a year later.

 

[Bustaballs]

That the US will nuke stuff from space is BS, nothing short of it. With the amount of nuclear capability in the world any use of nuclear weaponry will almost guarantee the destruction of the planet as we know it, even if just tactical nukes will be used. Enough others will get upset to retaliate using tactical nukes and it spirals from there.

Another such document, called “Vision for 2020,” was published in February of 1997 by the US Space Command. The mission statement at the head of this document reads: “U.S. Space Command--dominating the space dimension of military operations to protect US interests and investment.”[41] There is no mention of democracy and human rights. In the body of the document, in fact, we find this amazingly candid statement: “The globalization of the world economy . . . will continue with a widening between ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots.’” The point of this statement is that as the domination of the world economy by the United States and its allies increases, the world’s poor will get still poorer, making the “have-nots” hate America all the more. We will need, therefore, the power to keep them in line.

The United States can do this---and this is the document’s main message--through “Full Spectrum Dominance,” which will involve merging “space superiority with land, sea, and air superiority.” Dominance in space will include, the document frankly says, the power “to deny others the use of space.”

By speaking only of the Space Command’s effort to develop a “missile defense system,” the Pentagon and the White House like to suggest that its purpose is purely defensive. But the goal includes weaponizing space so as to give US forces, in the words of a more recent document, a “prompt global strike capability, whether nuclear or non-nuclear, [that] will allow the US to rapidly and accurately strike distant . . . targets.”[42] The fact that the U.S. Space Command’s program is an aggressive one is announced in the logo of one of its divisions: “In Your Face from Outer space.”[43]

http://911review.com/articles/griffin/madison.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3538037502590699697

I'll try to see if I can find official documents.

Edit:

I googled "Vision for 2020 US space command" without quotations.

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usspac/visbook.pdf

I googled "Full Spectrum Dominance" without quotations.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2000/n06022000_20006025.html
http://www.russfound.org/Enet/FSD.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_spectrum_dominance

I googled "In Your Face from Outer space" with quotations:

Pentagon eyeing weapons in space

Budget seeks millions to test new technologies

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | March 14, 2006

WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon is asking Congress for hundreds of millions of dollars to test weapons
in space, marking the biggest step toward creating a space battlefield since President Reagan's
long-defunct "star wars" project during the Cold War, according to federal budget documents.

The Defense Department's budget proposal for the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1 includes money
for a variety of tests on offensive and defensive weapons, including a missile launched at a small
satellite in orbit, testing a small space vehicle that could disperse weapons while traveling
at 20 times the speed of sound, and determining whether high-powered ground-based lasers can
effectively destroy enemy satellites.

The military says that its aerospace technology, which has advanced exponentially during the last
two decades, is worth the nine-figure investment because it will have civilian applications as well,
such as refueling or retrieving disabled satellites. But arms-control specialists fear the tests
will push the military closer to basing weapons in space than during Reagan's Strategic Defense
Initiative in the mid-1980s -- without a public debate of the potential consequences.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/03/14/pentagon_eyeing_weapons_in_space


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1000541/posts
http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/st050801.htm

 

[Rones]

Dang this thread is huge (as in tons of topics). There is no way to properly debate all of this in one thread.

So many things I disgaree with. You provide claims of demolitions on 9/11, yet you fail to answer the obvious questions and basic obstacles of this approach I posted in the other threads.'

1993 WTC bombing...last I checked Omasa admitted and claimed responsbility for that.

You support that Pearl Harbor was a conspirac and we knew about it, yet even the Japanese admit their message got delayed and arrived after the attack. Their are many historical timelines that got into detail on this.

I had hope for you and this thread you were creating, but that has been dashed horribly. This is a convergence of every crazy conspiracy theory on Earth. You don't even debunk the information you claim as false, such as the Popular mechanics article or the History channel documentaries.

 

[Bustaballs]

I'm sorry, but I had to bring up another thing you said.

The reason I do not buy into alternate explanations is that the larger an operation is, the more difficult it is to keep quiet about it. At some point some credible hard evidence (yeah, credible hard evidence, not circumstantial evidence) would surface and blow the whole thing wide open.

Please view my resources listed. I HIGHLY HIGHLY reccomend this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...61789658676035 - A great documentary on the mainstream hidden happenings of what the US government has been doing to the world since post WWII.

There is plenty of "hard evidence". Most people don't know about it because mainstream news never talks about it. As I said before, please view my listed resources. It would take a post far longer than my original just to sum up the "hard evidence" of 9/11 alone.

 

[Bustaballs]

Dang this thread is huge (as in tons of topics). There is no way to properly debate all of this in one thread.

So many things I disgaree with. You provide claims of demolitions on 9/11, yet you fail to answer the obvious questions and basic obstacles of this approach I posted in the other threads.'

1993 WTC bombing...last I checked Omasa admitted and claimed responsbility for that.

You support that Pearl Harbor was a conspirac and we knew about it, yet even the Japanese admit their message got delayed and arrived after the attack. Their are many historical timelines that got into detail on this.

I had hope for you and this thread you were creating, but that has been dashed horribly. This is a convergence of every crazy conspiracy theory on Earth. You don't even debunk the information you claim as false, such as the Popular mechanics article or the History channel documentaries.

Did you even read the article that purely debunked the PM article or the video where David Ray Griffin briefly mentions a stright out lie in the magazine? As for me failing to "answer the obvious questions and basic obstacles of this approach", I must have missed them. Please post them again so I can answer accordingly. Also, I never claimed any "History Channel" documentaries as false.

1993 bombing. I've never heard of Osama admitting to that. Was this one of the things the government mentioned as well with nothing to back it up?

Pearl Harbor. The Japanese admitted that their message got delayed and arrived after the attack? Let me look this up real quick...

"On 6 December 1941 at a White House dinner Roosevelt was given the first thirteen parts of a fifteen part decoded Japanese diplomatic declaration of war and said, “This means War (Toland 318 ) .”
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/pearl_harbor.htm

There are a lot of sources that back that up. If you'd like me to find some, I can.

Lastly, I didn't personally debunk it. My resources did. Please view the articles and videos.


Edit: I've been looking further into the Pearl Harbor thing.

The first key Japanese intercept of this crucial period was the so-called Pilot message. This message announced that the long awaited Japanese answer to our November 26th ultimatum would shortly be transmitted by the "Purple" code in English. The Japanese Ambassadors were to put it "in nicely drafted form" and hold it for delivery at a time to be specified in a later message. The time sheet for this Pilot message shows it was intercepted by a Navy station on the West Coast from 7:15 to 7:20 a.m., East Coast time on December 6, 1941. It was teletyped in Japanese code to the Navy in Washington. The Army Signal Corps received it from the Navy more than four hours later at 12:05 p.m. This abnormal time delay was never accounted for. It was then decoded, translated and typed by the Army's Signal Intelligence Service before delivery to the Army and Navy officer couriers.

Japan's Much-Awaited Reply

Next came the first 13 parts of Japan's 14 part reply to our ultimatum of November 26. We had known since November 22nd, that if agreement was not reached by November 29th, "things are automatically going to happen." A week had passed since that date with no agreement. The Navy's West Coast intercept station started picking up these coded parts on the morning of December 6th at 8:03 a.m. Washington, D.C. time. The first five parts were picked up by 10 a.m. and they had the first 13 parts by 11:25 a.m. They were sent in batches by teletype to the Navy in Washington.

The first four parts were received before noon and the Navy's decryption section went to work on them. The Army's section had closed down at 1 p.m. By two o'clock the Navy was swamped with work and the Army was asked to recall three of their decrypters. They came in by about three o'clock. All the first thirteen parts were in Washington by 2:51 p.m. The Army decoded parts 9 and 10 while the Navy decoded the other 11 parts. They were in English, so no translation was necessary. All thirteen parts were typed up and ready for delivery about 9 p.m.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p453_Greaves.html

After further research, the first source is wrong about the "15 part message". It was indeed 14 parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PURPLE

 

[Torqameda]

According to history, the U.S government knew about Pearl Harbor, and let it happen essentially. In spite of the Japanese attacking, they had the first casulties at Pearl Harbor (Kaiten submarines off of the southern portion of the island were destroyed by submarine sweeping technicians, or suttin like that).

On 7 December 1941 the greatest disaster in United States history occurred. Truly this was and is, “’A date which will live in infamy.’”(Costello 1), but not for the bombing of Pearl Harbor, rather for the deception and the mis-guidance used by the Government and Franklin D. Roosevelt. In a purely artificial chess game Roosevelt sacrificed over 2400 American Seamen’s lives, thanks to his power as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. By over-looking the obvious facts of an attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt was able to control both the political and economic systems of the United States. Most of American society before the Pearl Harbor bombing believed in the idea of isolationism.

Franklin D. Roosevelt knew this, and knew the only way in which United States countrymen would take arms and fight in Europe’s War was to be an overt action against the United States by a member of the Axis Power. Roosevelt also believed Hitler would not declare war on the United States unless he knew they were beatable. There are numerous accounts of actions by Roosevelt and his top armed forces advisors, which reveal they were not only aware of an attack by Japan, but also they were planning on it, and instigating that attack. On 7 October 1940, Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum, head of the Far East desk of the Office of Naval Intelligence, wrote the eight-action memo.

This memo outlined eight different steps the United States could do that he predicted would lead to an attack by Japan on the United States. The day after this memo was giving to Franklin D. Roosevelt, he began to implement these steps. By the time that Japan finally attacked the United States at Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, all eight steps had occurred (Willy 1). The eight steps consisted of two main subject areas; the first being a sign of United States military preparedness and threat of attack, the second being a forceful control on Japans trade and economy. The main subject area of the eight-action memo was the sign of United States military preparedness and threat of attack. McCollum called for the United States to make arrangements with both Britain (Action A) and Holland (Action B), for the use of military facilities and acquisition of supplies in both Singapore and Indonesia.

He also suggested for the deployment of a division of long-range heavy cruisers (Action D) and two divisions of submarines (Action E) to the Orient. The last key factor McCollum called for was to keep the United States Fleet in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands (Action F). Roosevelt personally took charge of Action’s D and E; these actions were called “pop up” cruises. Roosevelt had this to say about the cruises, “’I just want them to keep popping up here and there and keep the Japs guessing (Stinnett 9).’” With the fleet located around Hawaii and particularly in Pearl Harbor a double-sided sword was created; it allowed for quicker deployment times into South Pacific Water, but more importantly it lacked many fundamental military needs, and was vulnerable due to its geographic location. To understand the true vulnerability of Pearl Harbor one must look at Oahu, the Hawaiian Island that the military base is located. The North part of the island is all mountains, these mountains hinder the vision of military look out points, making an attack from the North virtually a surprise until the sound of fighter planes are over head.

There were many key military needs that were missing from Pearl Harbor, and they were; a lack of training facilities, lack of large-scale ammunition and fuel supplies, lack of support craft such as tugs and repair ships, and a lack of overhaul facilities such as dry-docking and machine shops. Commander in Chief, United States Fleet - Admiral James O. Richardson, was outraged when he was told by President Roosevelt of his plans on keeping the fleet in Hawaiian Waters. Richardson knew of the problems and vulnerability of Pearl Harbor, the safety of his men and warships was paramount. In a luncheon with Roosevelt, Richardson confronted the President, and by doing so ended his military career. Four months later Richardson was removed as commander-in-chief, and replaced by Rear Admiral Husband Kimmel (Stinnett 11).

Kimmel by many top Naval personal was looked down upon on, for taking orders from Roosevelt and not considering the immediate dangers he was putting the fleet in. The second part of McCollum’s eight-action memo was a forceful control on Japans trade and economy. He insisted that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for oil (Action G), and a complete embargo of all trade with Japan (Action H), by the United States. This embargo closely represented a similar embargo that was being imposed by the British Empire. McCollum also knew that if Japan controlled the Pacific, it would put a strain on America’s resources for copper, rubber, tin, and other valuable goods. These imports from the Pacific were all essential to America’s Economy, and to protect these trading routes McCollum insisted for all possible aid to be given to the Chinese government of Chiang Kai-shek (Action C).

Japan had some control over China due to a military operation, which took over part of the country. Thanks to the control, Japan took and used many raw goods from China that were not in abundance in their own homeland. The government of Chiang Kai-shek was completely against Japan, and with economic support from the United States, they were able to deny certain possessions from Japan. The United States Government and United States Navy by withholding important information about the bombing of Pearl Harbor have done everything they can do to protect the integrity of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the government. True nationalist believe this information is withheld from the general public in order to protect national security, and not to hide a conspiracy that was created by the United States Government some fifty years ago.

This school of thought asks people and wants them to think, “How in the world could the President of the United States sacrifice over 2400 American seamen’s life’s, horrific amounts of damages to the Fleet, and tremendous amounts of destruction to Army fighter planes?” This group also asks, “In the past fifty years why has there not be one single piece of hard evidence which links Roosevelt to Pearl Harbor, or why has there not been one person who had top security clearance to come out and say something about Roosevelt and his involvement with the bombing?”

On 5 December 1941 at a Cabinet meeting, Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox said, “Well, you know Mr. President, we know where the Japanese fleet is?” “Yes, I know, …Well, you tell them what it is Frank,” said Roosevelt (Toland 294). Knox became extremely excited with the ok from Roosevelt, and he went to tell the group of where the Japanese were and where they were headed. Just as Knox was about to speak Roosevelt interrupted saying, “ We haven’t got anything like perfect information as to their apparent destination (Toland 294).” All Navy reports showed the Japanese were in Pacific Water, and were in a direction towards Hawaii and Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt knew this information, but one must wonder why in the world would he not want to tell his cabinet this information, unless he wanted to hide something? On 6 December 1941 at a White House dinner Roosevelt was given the first thirteen parts of a fifteen part decoded Japanese diplomatic declaration of war and said, “This means War (Toland 318).”

Later that night, Roosevelt along with top advisor Harry Hopkins, Henry Stimson, George Marshall, Secretary of the Navy Knox, with aides John McCrea and Frank Beatty deliberately sat through the night waiting for the Japanese to strike Pear Harbor (Toland 320). Not until the morning of 7 December 1941 at 7:55 Hawaii Time did Japan deliberately and forcefully attack the United States at Pearl Harbor, finally ending disillusioned isolationist ideas of an only European War. United States countrymen immediately ran to recruiting offices after the news of the attack, to join the armed forces and fight against the Japanese and Hitler.

Beyond a doubt Pearl Harbor was President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s back door into the European War. Roosevelt’s decisions and actions were very much so, deliberate and calculated, in order to lead a victorious Allied Powers in World War II. By provoking the Japanese and the foreknowledge of an attack on Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt along with his top advisors and the Federal Government are truly to blame for the lost of American life’s and American property. 7 December 1941 shall be a day in American history, which will be remembered as “a day of deceit.”

Here is something that may be a little extreme. In the Solomon Islands, U.S soldiers were taken captive and forced to trek many miles to concentration camps. Many were killed. This alone, was already an act of war. FDR also had no other choice, but to sacrifice Pearl Harbor. It was a game of chess, sacrificing a pawn worth 2400 lives.
Now, Pearl Harbor led up to the War in the Pacific. Leading up to the victory at Iwo Jima, the victory at Midway, the victory at Guadalcanal, the victory at Coral Sea, the victory at Saipan, and many other places. This stopped the Japanese from taking more of China. It stopped them from taking Australia (Hence the Battle of Guadalcanal). The U.S would have been attacked either way. The actions (Too the full extent) of the Australian plans were also not completely known to the U.S military officials until monthes before they planned the invasion of Guadalcanal. So ultimately, with Australia, Japan could've easily launced a massive naval strike on Hawaii, and ultimately, the western coast.
Now, for the benefit of this consiracy, it is common knowledge that the aircraft carriers were 'coincidentally' moved from Pearl Harbor to another location. So there.
But if Pearl Harbor never happened, and the U.S did fortify Pearl Harbor, the Japanese wouldn't have attacked. And if they did, they would've been most likely beaten.
However, the Japanese would've then began mass operations. And if Pearl Harbor didn't happen, then Midway wouldn't have happened, nor Coral Sea. And in those two battles, the Japanese fleet was utterly crippled by miracles. Without those battles, the Japanese fleet would've easily overcome the U.S fleet, despite the ships from Pearl Harbor.
So despite the disgusting, putrid actions of this known conspiracy, it ultimately helped end World War 2, and saved many soldier's lives. By the way, the U.S had already previously planned an invasion of Japan, which was estimated to be a loss of 10,000,000 lives. This plan arised again before the dropping of the 2 atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Usama did claim responsibility for the bombing at the WTC. The Taliban also claimed responsibility for 9/11. And then, Mussaiui or what ever his name is, claimed that he was supposed to be on the 4 plane to the Whitehouse, claiming that we was ordered to do so. Now, whether or not he was lying, it kind of checks out with Taliban's claim.

 

[alanon]

First off, I'd like to show you the PM magazine's article called "Debunking the Myths". Now I want to show you article that not only shows that, like Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 movie, things were taken out of context, the truth was stretched, and in some cases they flat out lied.

Debunking the Myths - click

Popular Mechanics Attacks Its "9/11 LIES" Straw Man - click

There is nothing in there that really "debunked" anything that PM wrote. It was just a site that basically said "na-uh!" and "How dare you pick on our weaker theories!!" and "But Billy Joe Bob said!!!"

 

[Torqameda]

There is nothing in there that really "debunked" anything that PM wrote. It was just a site that basically said "na-uh!" and "How dare you pick on our weaker theories!!" and "But Billy Joe Bob said!!!"

100% Agreed. That site didn't give hard evidence that can be believed without a doubt.

 

[Trippyhippy]

OMG!!! the end is nigh... I agree with Rones.

You should indeed present each topic as a thread. :biggrin:

The first one with the conspiricy theories... I like the way you put that.

Anything about 9/11 should just be omitted from this thread, we already have one for that one, even though it drifted toward michael moore.

Also, comparing anything to Nazis is unacceptable. No matter what the comparison is. People hear the word Nazi and all they hear is a million jews screaming in pain. Noone cares to think about that at and that completely overshadows the other lies told/attrocites commited by Nazi Germany.

I was under the impression that it was wodely known that we let pearl harbor happen, and even forced it to happen in a way.

Hurricane Katrina was NOT Bush's fault. It was a natural disaster. A city built below sea level got flooded. Not suprising. More could have been done to save lives. If you need blame, it lies on the shoulders of Mike Brown. Who was appointed by Bush. Which, arugablly makes it bush's fault for appointing someone that had a background that little prepared him for a disaster like Hurricane Katrina, but not Directly.
Samantics ftw.

If they can do something like issue the Patriot Act without our permission then they can do anything

Voting them into office gives them permission. I just think they should have at least read it first. The patriot act is the fastest way this administration could have wasted the unity of this country that we saw after 9/11. There for a while, we weren't Republican/conservative or Democrat/Liberal, we were Americans. We were pissed. We wanted [read: want] osamas head on a pike.

Try to pull one topic from all this and concentrate on it or we'll all be posting essays that only 3 or 4 of us will even bother reading.

 

[Bustaballs]

There is nothing in there that really "debunked" anything that PM wrote. It was just a site that basically said "na-uh!" and "How dare you pick on our weaker theories!!" and "But Billy Joe Bob said!!!"

The point was still made with multiple questions. They article avoided many facts. The most talked about lie in the article is:

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999.

They omitted the crucial information that military F-15s had been next to the Learjet almost from the time it lost contact in Florida. The F-15s handed it over in Missouri to F-16s from North Dakota.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/26/wayward.jet.01/index.html

http://www.seeingtheforest.com/archives/2006/05/tax_cuts_dont_b.htm

It would appear that Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator for NIST, settled on somewhat of a compromise between these two views, telling Popular Mechanics that, “On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out” (Popular Mechanics, March 2005).

The different accounts of the problem on the building’s south side are not, moreover, limited to the issue of the size of the hole. According to Deputy Chief Peter Hayden, the problem was not a hole at all but a “bulge,” and it was “between floors 10 and 13" (Hayden, 2002).

Let's look at some other articles that act in reply to the magazine article.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29150
http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html#_ednref11
http://www.reopen911.org/jimmyrebut.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm

Enjoy.

 

[Chasym]

you forgot the history channel documentary where the guy admitted he was told to demolish one of the buildings, then was fired and has disappeared since then.
or the recetn rumsfeld speech where he says flight 93 was shot down.

 

[Tagrineth]

Guys, it's all true. I was working with the CIA on the WTC demolitions project. I was present while placing all of the charges! I even directed one of the crews on the 31st floor placing them. The government won't acknowledge I exist, though. Hopefully they won't find out I posted this or I may just disappear...

You know, because my one "eyewitness account" must be fact.

 

[Doctork]

According to history, the U.S government knew about Pearl Harbor, and let it happen essentially. In spite of the Japanese attacking, they had the first casulties at Pearl Harbor (Kaiten submarines off of the southern portion of the island were destroyed by submarine sweeping technicians, or suttin like that).

The USS Ward noticed something in the waters around Pearl and investigated. They found a mini-submarine attempting to infiltrate the channel into the Harbor and fired on it, scoring a direct hit on and sinking the sub. The Ward then reported her contact, but the report was misinterperted by headquarters, who assumed that the Ward's relatively inexperienced crew had mistaken something for a submariine. They also somehow missed the part of the report where the Ward said she had fired on, and sunk, a target outside of the channel.

The Wards actions was the first blood drawn at Pearl Herbor, but HQ's failure to take the War's report seriously cost us a possible indication of the impending attack (that would take place ~1.5 hours later)

Here is something that may be a little extreme. In the Solomon Islands, U.S soldiers were taken captive and forced to trek many miles to concentration camps. Many were killed. This alone, was already an act of war. FDR also had no other choice, but to sacrifice Pearl Harbor. It was a game of chess, sacrificing a pawn worth 2400 lives.

FDR was no fool. He wouldn't have sacrificed the Pacific fleet's main base and open the west cost of America to the real possibiklity of invasion by the Japaneese. With the Pacific Fleet in shambles, such an invasion would have been difficult, at best, to turn away. Catching the Japaneese fleet in the act of approaching Pearl Harbor would have been sufficent enough provokation to engage them, which woiuld have started the war anyway.

We expected them to attack us SOMEWHERE,but we never dreamed they'd have the balls to try an attack on Pearl.

Now, Pearl Harbor led up to the War in the Pacific. Leading up to the victory at Iwo Jima, the victory at Midway, the victory at Guadalcanal, the victory at Coral Sea, the victory at Saipan, and many other places. This stopped the Japanese from taking more of China. It stopped them from taking Australia (Hence the Battle of Guadalcanal). The U.S would have been attacked either way. The actions (Too the full extent) of the Australian plans were also not completely known to the U.S military officials until monthes before they planned the invasion of Guadalcanal. So ultimately, with Australia, Japan could've easily launced a massive naval strike on Hawaii, and ultimately, the western coast.
Now, for the benefit of this consiracy, it is common knowledge that the aircraft carriers were 'coincidentally' moved from Pearl Harbor to another location. So there.

Bone up on your navel history. The Aircraft carriers WERE coincidentially out of port at the time of the strike and that is EXACTLY how I KNOW we never knew the attack was comming?

Why?

Because, prior to Midway, the old-fashoned Admirals of the US Navy saw aircraft carriers as little more than a toy and none of them would even briefly entertain the thought that they could win a war. The Battleships were the premiere navel unit and the ships that Admirals like Hausey expected to win the next war with. Billy Mitchell found this out the hard way, when he tried to get the Navel Brass to come around and see navel air power as the wave of the future. He pushed so hard that any chance of him becomming a real star in the navy was effectively ended.

No, the Adminals would have never stood for sacrificing the mighy ships of Battleship Row, the very ships they'd "need" to effectively fight a was in the Pacifiic, to get the US in to a war. They would have NEVER left the defense of the American west coast to three aircraft carriers and their "puny" "toy" aircraft. No way in hell.

But if Pearl Harbor never happened, and the U.S did fortify Pearl Harbor, the Japanese wouldn't have attacked. And if they did, they would've been most likely beaten.

The whole point of Pearl Harbor was to utter destroy the US Pacific fleet because they knew a conflict with America was inevitable. That's why they counted so heavily on suprise.

They almost succeeded, too. Had the Admiral sent to carry out Yomomoto's plan stuck to it and launched the second attck that the plan called for, the US Pacific Fleet would have been out of commission for a LOT longer and they would have likely caught the USS Hornet comming back into port and heavily damaged or sunk her, too, leaving the US with only two carriers in the Pacific.

Hardly a "plan" the would have benefitted the US in ANY way. What good would a war you couldn't fight be? What good would it have been, had the Japaneese took the next logical step and invaded America? It's pretty damn hard to win a war, when you're starting off SO close to effectively crippled.

However, the Japanese would've then began mass operations. And if Pearl Harbor didn't happen, then Midway wouldn't have happened, nor Coral Sea. And in those two battles, the Japanese fleet was utterly crippled by miracles. Without those battles, the Japanese fleet would've easily overcome the U.S fleet, despite the ships from Pearl Harbor.

So, if the Japaneese fleet was SUCH an overwhelming force, why did they feel they needed to attack Pearl Harbor in the first place? It was an AWFULLY risky move to make for a fleet whose victory was assured.

The US Pacific Fleet was a VERY powerful force and the Japaneese had NO intention of engaging them on equal footing, unless they HAD to.

 

[alanon]

I went through your "Debunks"

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29150

As with the previously posted site (and most other conspiracy sites for that matter) it relies on being vague and attacking very minor points

From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said.

That's it's big sticking point? They diverted jets and combat patrols 462 times? Notice how it never says for what purpose? It could be an escort or as simple as a sick pilot or adverse weather, hardly shoots down PM's statement of the number of times flights were diverted for a specific purpose.

An Air Force spokesman says two U.S. Air Force F-15s from Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, intercepted the plane shortly after it lost contact with aircraft controllers, and followed it to Missouri.

Another attempt at a "debunk". Could it be that a "short time" could mean 82 mins? Hmmmmm.

In theory, the fighters could have tried to tip or nudge the wings of the plane to change it's course, but it's not clear if the Learjet's auto-pilot would have simply automatically corrected its course.

Are you shitting me? Well there's a fucking brilliant idea! Let's "nudge" the plane so that it can hit something else instead, and throw in a now out of control fighter jet while we're at it!


I'll read the other links later.