The Squeeky Wheel Gets the Oil.

[Mokk]

in defense of the whole make your own party thing i have to say this ... the other night i'm sitting around lfg just chatting when it hits me to get off my ass and attempt to make a party. I click the button and check the area for folks .. and then bust up laughting

blm
blm
blm
smn
smn
blm
smn
blm
pld
me

no 6 people more than 4 lvls apart for making a pt .. so i says to myself "ok ... how bout the server..." /sea all inv 63-65 .... that gets me another nin on the list .. 40% JP ONRY lfg .. so my question is wtf does laziness have to do with no viable party options being open based on who is looking to group? Alot of people would call it lazy, alot of people would call it lack of ball polishing to have friends on hand, some people would call it bad luck, i call it at not wasting people's time when there's no pt available


On a side note the other day i tanked like 5k xp with mnk on processionaires in the tree cos i haden't had an xp pt for quite some time and our pld had to bounce. Party was blm, blm, blm, whm, rdm, mnk ... mages help lots. Blanket statements about laziness with slow inv paced jobs are just that, silly tired old blanket statements

 

[HankScorpio2]

I didn't read all of these posts but I did read up to this line...

"this game is easy, people just make it harder on themselves than they need to." - Meeze

Perhaps this game is easy to you because you can devote so much of your time to it. There are people who play FFXI who do not have the time to spend camping hours and hours just to get a couple of Mee Deggi spawns. Add to that the GSes and "normal" player competition and that player with little time has NO chance.

 

[CubsWoo]

I didn't read all of these posts but I did read up to this line...

"this game is easy, people just make it harder on themselves than they need to." - Meeze

Perhaps this game is easy to you because you can devote so much of your time to it. There are people who play FFXI who do not have the time to spend camping hours and hours just to get a couple of Mee Deggi spawns. Add to that the GSes and "normal" player competition and that player with little time has NO chance.

So explain to us why someone who can't devote as much time to the game deserves the same advantages as those who can.

 

[Mokk]

I didn't read all of these posts but I did read up to this line...

"this game is easy, people just make it harder on themselves than they need to." - Meeze

Perhaps this game is easy to you because you can devote so much of your time to it. There are people who play FFXI who do not have the time to spend camping hours and hours just to get a couple of Mee Deggi spawns. Add to that the GSes and "normal" player competition and that player with little time has NO chance.

So explain to us why someone who can't devote as much time to the game deserves the same advantages as those who can.

they pay just as much as anyone. There should be no penalty for not being able to sit at your desk for 6-8+ hrs a day when the developing company explicitly (CYA statement or not) tells you not to be wasting your whole life in front of this game. While i do get your point, cubs, even you've gotta admit that's a kinda silly notion: You can't play as much? You must forever walk the path of the gimp. (Too Weak) think that's good marketing?

Edit: to clarify i don't think that there should be a completely level playing field, which there won't if you take player A. who does stuff all day constantly he will have more stuff over player B. who can only spend 4-6hrs online and do one maybe two things ... that's keen ... but some of the stuff on the game that is ridiculously set for length of play is kinda lame to a casual gamer. Let alone: you can't have your cake and eat it to. Not personally directing this at anyone but you can't keep shouting GIMP GIMP GIMP GIMP at people and expect they wont whine about something or be happy when there's an update to their favor.

 

[meeze]

I didn't read all of these posts but I did read up to this line...

"this game is easy, people just make it harder on themselves than they need to." - Meeze

Perhaps this game is easy to you because you can devote so much of your time to it. There are people who play FFXI who do not have the time to spend camping hours and hours just to get a couple of Mee Deggi spawns. Add to that the GSes and "normal" player competition and that player with little time has NO chance.

i used to work 50-80 hours a week when i was a manager, i would come home outpost to pashhow marshlands, farm a few hours, outpost back, set up my bazaar, sleep, wake up refresh bazaar, check plants, go to work, put in 10-16 hours, repeat.

took me 2 weeks for my first 500k (sniper) then after that the money sped up as i learned what was used for what and where to sell it. i also sold everything that i got, even insect wings.

 

[Anderithe]

It takes time to make money in the game no matter how you do it.

 

[Mokk]

I think basicly the bottom line for me on making cash was not to be more greedy than my playtime allowed for. IMO you see alot of people griping 'cause they can only spend so much time online ... well then knuckle under and give up some of that xp time to get what you want done or go without.

On the other side of it you have people with friends, time, money, knowledge, etc who have more than enough time and sense to figure out what they want to do, the best way to go about it, and time scheduled to do something some of which cry "GIMP GIMP GIMP" when the former group of people walk by.

Plainly it's silly to point the finger and get pissed because someon can/can't do what you can based on perceptions of what that player does/will do in relation to their gametime.

Regardless it's a moot point as it's been a problem since before MMO's existed. Same thing used to happen back in the dusty script only MUD days.

 

[Asplode]

and speaking of BLM

Expensive (RNG) >>> Cheap (BLM).

You've obviously never leveled BLM very high. Nothing cheap about it, its probably the 2nd or 3rd most expensive job in the game.

To paraphrase you, it's obvious YOU haven't played any job very high. Blm is probably the 2nd or 3rd Cheapest job in the game.

In regaurds strictly to the comparison, Rng costs more than Blm, i really don't think there is any argument there. It is just a matter of fact.

I didnt say BLM was more expensive than RNG.

I've leveled BLM higher than you, which gives me more room to talk. Go look up the price of some +INT gear, and then whine about how much more expensive your gear is. Plus we can't resell our spells, but thats an argument that you've probably heard before.

I'm glad that RNG got nerfed in a way, because all they do is gloat about how uber they are. I haven't met one that could even be considered a nic guy, they're solely self serving. They openly laugh at other less favored jobs, and I feel that to be highly unfair. They have just as much right to a party as you do, regardless of how much money is spent on the job. (not to say that they should have terrible gear.) Meeze's signature sums up why RNG should be nerfed perfectly.

 

[CubsWoo]

they pay just as much as anyone.

No. Wrong. I'd venture to say the 'casual' player pays for their character and a mule (if that.) I pay for 2 accounts so my girlfriend and I can play simultaneously and five mules spread across both accounts.

There should be no penalty for not being able to sit at your desk for 6-8+ hrs a day when the developing company explicitly (CYA statement or not) tells you not to be wasting your whole life in front of this game. While i do get your point, cubs, even you've gotta admit that's a kinda silly notion: You can't play as much? You must forever walk the path of the gimp. (Too Weak) think that's good marketing?

It IS good marketing. Let's say 50% of the server population is 'casual' and 50% is 'hardcore.' The casual players:

- Will likely have only one mule, or none at all
- Do not spend as much time using your service
- Will likely quit after less than a year for other MMORPGs/activities
- May never buy an expansion pack (how many 'casual' players do you know have Sky access? Abjuration gear? Lufaise access? Have a craft past 70? In the 60's, a lot of these 'casual' players were bitching in party about how pissed they were that they had to get CoP because nobody partied anywhere but Bibiki.)

Whereas the hardcore player:

- Normally has one mule per city, if not more for crafting and 'I want to play this race' purposes
- Will happily spend 3-4 hours per day playing
- Will likely stay with your game for 3-5 years or more, at a higher per-month rate
- May get a second account to two-box (or third, or fourth...)

The hardcore community spends more (both time and $$/month) on your service. They are going to be more loyal. Anyone who thinks the other, less serious crowd should be on a level (or even slightly disadvantageous) playing field as the hardcore isn't seeing the big picture.

 

[Mokk]

ok so maybe NO penalty was a bit too much. However the hardcore gamer has the law of avgs on their side regardless. I figure they did right at least throwing the casual gamer a bone .... granted it was a HUGE bone .. but meh.
As far as anything else goes, it's debatable but i'm not gonna dig up the census and hash that out for no real reason.

 

[Peregrine]

Anyone who think the game's financial statements ride on "hardcore" players is fooling themselves. Take a look at the auction house names. EVERYONE is a nobody. Hardcore players come here to the forums. Hardcore players associate with hardcore players. You are, however, a drop in Square's bucket. The game is dominated by the casual player. They play for years. They just play at level 60 for 3 years.

Square has repeatedly given you all hints that if they have to choose between you the hardcore player or "them" the casual player, you're fired. XP reduction. Nerfs aimed at endgame content. Nerfs aimed at endgame cannon parties. Lack of endgame content. The entire chains of Promathia expansion.

The anti-whiners have one thing right. This game is run by people who've never fought Genbu. You all...are simply a sideshow to them. They'll chose the L55 in a social shell over you any day of the week. That is quite clear.

So it doesn't surprise me that the development team caters to the general player with one (1) character. That's where the money is. You can bet the farm on that.

 

[CubsWoo]

I disagree. These 'nerfs' are moreso to stem the bleeding from casual players going to WoW last winter. Give the casual player an easier road to 75 and they BECOME a hardcore player.

And look at games like EQ and UO - out for six and eight years respectively and STILL profitable. And not because of the casual gamer.

And to call CoP a helping hand for 'casual' players is insane. Most people have had that expansion for over a year and still aren't past chapter 2.

 

[Peregrine]

Intent and outcome are not always the same. Chains of Promathia is a lot of things, but endgame content is by and large not one of them. The vast majority was aimed at mid-level players. The game has far more casual but permanent players than hardcore and permanent players. For every one person who will play for 3 more years in sky, there are 10 who will play 3 more years in Sauromugue. That's why you will see the developers listening to the "lazy" people. The lazy people pay Square's bills while the REAL minority parades around in sky for no one but themselves. The demographics determine who SE listens to. Square plays to the tune of their main patrons, and their main patrons are not people who squat Argus every day on the dot with a turbo controller in hand and some alternate accounts standing next to them. They are not the people who spend 7 hours in sky a day like it's a fulltime job.

They're the people that want none of that bull****. Endgame players don't mean jack to Square Enix. SE takes their NM's and gives them to the general players. They take their power and gives it to the general players. They take their levels and cap them to the general players'. They nerf the imbalance endgame players create, and correct the imbalances that endgame players have already endured and graduated from while neither apologizing to them nor making a single reparation to them.

If you haven't caught on in a year and a half of playing, it's time to wake up. If you're playing 5 hours a day, have dozens of millions of gil sitting in your pockets and on your body...SE thinks that's interesting and nothing more. You are not their main fan base. You're just a fan whose wishes may or may not coincide with the PERMANENT majority. If they don't coincide, tough luck. They'll take your Emperor hairpin without asking your permission.

 

[Mokk]

Honestly i think this update had alot more to do with strongarming how they wanted the game played versus nerfing anything in particular or playing nursemade to any specific group of players. That's just me though.

 

[Asplode]

Honestly i think this update had alot more to do with strongarming how they wanted the game played versus nerfing anything in particular or playing nursemade to any specific group of players. That's just me though.

Well, after all, it was the developers that spent hundreds of thousands of manhours developing & tweaking the game to achieve a golden balance. They get to decide how we play it, regardless of how awful it may or may not be, or how we feel about it. True, you do pay $12.95 a month, but if you don't like the game anymore, you aren't forced to continue.

 

[Phraust]

65-Black Mage/White mage-32:                    65-Thief/Ninja-32:                                                   
~  150,000 G Fire Staff.                        ~  250,000 G Cermet kukri +1
~   30,000 G Ice Staff.                         ~       FREE Hornetneedle.
~  200,000 G Wind Staff.                                
~  250,000 G Earth Staff.
~   30,000 G Thunder Staff
~  150,000 G Water Staff
~  220,000 G Light Staff
~  200,000 G Dark Staff

~  200,000 G Phantom Tathlum                    ~  350,000 G Heavy Crossbow +1

~       FREE AF Hat                             ~  500,000 G Emperor Hairpin

~1,500,000 G Elemental Torque                   ~1,000,000 G Evasion Torque
~  150,000 G Dark Torque                        ~   10,000 G Spike Necklace

~  250,000 G Phantom Earring.                   ~   50,000 Spike Earring
~       FREE Moldevite Earring.                 ~   50,000 Spike Earring
                                                ~   30,000 G Drone Earring
                                                ~   30,000 G Drone Earring
                                                ~   80,000 G Dodge Earring
                                                ~   80,000 G Dodge Earring

~  175,000 G Black Cotehardie                   ~6,000,000 G Scorpion Harness
                                                ~  175,000 G Black Cotehardie

~       FREE  AF gloves                         ~       FREE AF Gloves

~  700,000 G Genius Ring                        ~  800,000 G Sniper's Ring
~  700,000 G Genius Ring                        ~  800,000 G Sniper's Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Grace Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Grace Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Celerity Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Celerity Ring

~1,250,000 G Sapient Cape                       ~    3,000 G Amemet Mantle
                                                ~   75,000 G Nomad's Mantle
~1,300,000 G Penitent's Rope                    ~   90,000 G R.K. Belt
                                                ~   90,000 G Life Belt
                                                ~  150,000 G Survival Belt

~       FREE AF Pants                           ~       FREE AF Pants

~       FREE AF Feet                            ~  750,000 G Winged Boots

~1,000,000 G Spells                             ~  600,000 G Spells

Totals:
~7,255,000 G                                    ~13,983,000 G

Did I miss anything?

 

[craftaholic]

65-Black Mage/White mage-32:                    65-Thief/Ninja-32:                                                   
~  150,000 G Fire Staff.                        ~  250,000 G Cermet kukri +1
~   30,000 G Ice Staff.                         ~       FREE Hornetneedle.
~  200,000 G Wind Staff.                                
~  250,000 G Earth Staff.
~   30,000 G Thunder Staff
~  150,000 G Water Staff
~  220,000 G Light Staff
~  200,000 G Dark Staff

~  200,000 G Phantom Tathlum                    ~  350,000 G Heavy Crossbow +1

~       FREE AF Hat                             ~  500,000 G Emperor Hairpin

~1,500,000 G Elemental Torque                   ~1,000,000 G Evasion Torque
~  150,000 G Dark Torque                        ~   10,000 G Spike Necklace

~  250,000 G Phantom Earring.                   ~   50,000 Spike Earring
~       FREE Moldevite Earring.                 ~   50,000 Spike Earring
                                                ~   30,000 G Drone Earring
                                                ~   30,000 G Drone Earring
                                                ~   80,000 G Dodge Earring
                                                ~   80,000 G Dodge Earring

~  175,000 G Black Cotehardie                   ~6,000,000 G Scorpion Harness
                                                ~  175,000 G Black Cotehardie

~       FREE  AF gloves                         ~       FREE AF Gloves

~  700,000 G Genius Ring                        ~  800,000 G Sniper's Ring
~  700,000 G Genius Ring                        ~  800,000 G Sniper's Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Grace Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Grace Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Celerity Ring
                                                ~  700,000 G Celerity Ring

~1,250,000 G Sapient Cape                       ~    3,000 G Amemet Mantle
                                                ~   75,000 G Nomad's Mantle
~1,300,000 G Penitent's Rope                    ~   90,000 G R.K. Belt
                                                ~   90,000 G Life Belt
                                                ~  150,000 G Survival Belt

~       FREE AF Pants                           ~       FREE AF Pants

~       FREE AF Feet                            ~  750,000 G Winged Boots

~1,000,000 G Spells                             ~  600,000 G Spells

Totals:
~7,255,000 G                                    ~13,983,000 G

Did I miss anything?

I don't really think this is that fair of a comparison, either compare all NQ or all HQ. You also missed druids slops and enfeebling torqes, that's about antoher 1.5 mil also.

I do a agree with you Phraust, it is much cheaper to equip a BLM with NQ gear than a THF.

But hey, it's not hard to drop 20 mil in BLM equip either. :wink:

 

[deathsvengeance]

((Cut the long stuff for the sake of board format lol))

Did I miss anything?

I don't really think this is that fair of a comparison, either compare all NQ or all HQ. You also missed druids slops and enfeebling torqes, that's about antoher 1.5 mil also.

I do a agree with you Phraust, it is much cheaper to equip a BLM with NQ gear than a THF.

But hey, it's not hard to drop 20 mil in BLM equip either. :wink:

Honestly.. winged boots? go go 2 more defense! Talk about a waste of money Also, I think if a blm decks out on ALL their spells, they spend more than a million (or what exactly were you calculating here?)

I've never seen a blm with a Sapient Cape.. only red cape +1 for the 1 extra int. I guess the -2 emnity would be nice ~ There are also those black mages that buy the level 50 RSE belts depending on their race. Those can be quite pricey too. But would likely be used instead of the penitents rope.

I think it would be fair to add HQ elemental staves as there are some blms that save up for these.

 

[Phraust]

I don't really think this is that fair of a comparison, either compare all NQ or all HQ. You also missed druids slops and enfeebling torqes, that's about antoher 1.5 mil also.

I do a agree with you Phraust, it is much cheaper to equip a BLM with NQ gear than a THF.

But hey, it's not hard to drop 20 mil in BLM equip either. :wink:

Naw, this is a pretty fair compairison, the ony thing that isn't HQ on the BLM side is the Staves. I mean Sapient Cape, Phantom Earring, penitents rope, and Genius Rings are all well above the norm. If I went Completely HQ On both all you got to do is add ~11M more for the HQ Staves, Pants and Enfeebling Torque, you'd lose 175,000 because you'd get a Shaman's Cloak. But then you gotta go all HQ on the thief Side and you add an additional 40,000,000 G for Scorpion Harness +1, Sniper's Rings+1, Peacock Charm, Merman's Earrings, Amemet's Mantle +1, etc..

 

[Phraust]

((Cut the long stuff for the sake of board format lol))

Did I miss anything?

I don't really think this is that fair of a comparison, either compare all NQ or all HQ. You also missed druids slops and enfeebling torqes, that's about antoher 1.5 mil also.

I do a agree with you Phraust, it is much cheaper to equip a BLM with NQ gear than a THF.

But hey, it's not hard to drop 20 mil in BLM equip either. :wink:

Honestly.. winged boots? go go 1 more defense! Talk about a waste of money Also, I think if a blm decks out on ALL their spells, they spend more than a million (or what exactly were you calculating here?)

I've never seen a blm with a Sapient Cape.. only red cape +1 for the 1 extra int. I guess the -2 emnity would be nice ~ There are also those black mages that buy the level 50 RSE belts depending on their race. Those can be quite pricey too. But would likely be used instead of the penitents rope.

I think it would be fair to add HQ elemental staves as there are some blms that save up for these.

1) Winged Boots are/were usually cheaper than Leaping boots.
2) If you wanted to swap out the Sapient cape for a Red Cape take 1.25 Mill off the original total
3) I intentionally left RSE out of the equation because they can vary so broadly, I was trying to be neutral.

So if you add the HQ Ice Staff, which if I am correct is pretty much the Only HQ staff that is really sought after, and trade that valu with the Sapient Cape, you can even out....

Basically Give or take, Blm: 7M, Thief 14M.

The main difference is this:
Blm are more apt to be pulling the "BLM is so expensive you don't even know" When the BLM that usually say that are wearing 52k in gear and missing all the spells that cost over 50k, which at level 65 is like 5 spells(Flare, Quake, Tornado, Erase, Stonaga II) the exception being Warp I & II. So a total player value of about 400K tops telling me BLM is expensive...