The virtue of Absolute Virtue

[Courtney]

So would it pretty much be up to chance as to whether or not the correct 2hr was guessed? Seems kinda random dont ya think?

I have no idea what that refers to....

...but yeah, if you have a theory about the video, it's worth while to go through the listed threads, and the referenced videos and see what has been tried. Then have a look at the Demo videos and see what they tried.

Ultimatley, so far noone has shown any actions by players have or even can affect how or when AV uses its 2hrs, and this is really the major issue, because if AV has a chance of using Benediction every couple of minutes, it's pretty much unbeatable (without even considering the 3-4 other 2hrs that can do incredible damage in seconds).

 

[Hexx]

YOU dont, but WE do. ^^b come on dude, chill, this aint the flameboard for us to be at each others throats.

Lets stop de-railing and keep the brain juices flowing!

 

[Moink]

I don't see how its fun discussing the biggest bottleneck in the game to date, something that makes people quit over just how ridiculous it is. It's just depressing, realizing that you waited so long for results from SE just to find that the results they actually give are incredibly vague and possibly not even an answer at all.

I don't know how many times or if ever you attempted AV (Not being rude there, i just dont know you enough to know) but I'm sorry it feels depressing to you, but it doesn't to me and appearently other qcdn members have a their own say in it too.

I find it intriguing that no matter how many videos SE chopped up for each AV fight or whatever they did to crop one together, they still show a defeated AV and clues are in there.

I won't tolerate this "AV is depressing, noone can kill it" attitude. there is a trigger to it somewhere and someone will find it. Now if you don't want to help or add valuable input then sensless whining please leave and please ignore the thread.

 

[Jakey]

for those discussing this fight without ever having tried it... AV can wipe your alliance basically at will, when he first popped for pers I think it wiped 90% of our alliance in about 5 seconds, well it's possible to use a wind resist set to survive the aero spells which are most of his he can still always kill you 100 other ways. and even if you do have a good enough group to not just constantly wipe have fun with benediction.

maybe if it's supposed to be 18 hours its like pandemonium only instead of 20 forms it uses every 2 hour 20 times!

 

[Grandphoenix]

This really is just one of those old cue the beaten horse threads honestly though :\

 

[charlo]

Has it been proven 100% that once AVs 2 hour is matched in under a few seconds (Amount of time it takes to magic burst after a skillchain) that it uses it again?
Because with all the information given
2 houring after AV
Fight lasting 11 - 18 hours if lucky
Him asking to show him your principles.(meaning EACH jobs 2 hour)

My thought is that you HAVE to survive every 2 hour at least 1 time, but ONLY IF you match the 2 hour within the above timeframe. Only then is it locked from AV.
BUT he still has acsess to all other 2 hours until you lock them the same way.
This would be bang on for time period SS told us about bcause if the last 2 hour was beni it would double the time frame.
If it was the first it would only take a small amount of extra time.(If matched straight away).
Which is why you see so many beni in the first have of the video.
And keeping at least 1-2 blms for manafont and 1-2 rdms for chainspell. Because if you miss these you have to wait a full 2 hours before you can lock them again.
This is also why you see it 2 houring at the end before death because it cant lock the 2 hours the alliance doesnt have acsess too. Which also are not that important ie; thf, rng.
It is important to note that once you have locked AV that it still has the ability to use the 2 hour that is currently in use. Like we see it chainspelling spells and soul voiceing songs. But after cant use it again.
So it would be a case of surviving until you have had AV use all the 2 hours that are hardest (This is shown by the jobs in alliance) and locked them by being quick the match them. Then surviving through each one.
Once this is up he can spam his remaining 2 hours still, which are survivable on a spam level. Until you take him down.
Note if any dangerous 2 hours are missed and you use up the matching ones, you have to survive it spaming these (ie; manafont, beni, chainspell) until you can match them again.
This theory seems to corrispond with everything shown in the vid and also the timeline told by SS.
This would also explain why the timeline between 2 hours that people have got to expand has happened. Because 1/2/3 of the 2 hour AV WOULD of used inbetween this space of 2-3 mins is gone.
Unknown would be if by wiping and reclaiming it would regain those 2 hours.

 

[Moink]

Well, I just finished watching the Videos of AV round 4, 5, 6, 7...
And I'm not impressed...

They did well but the focus that shell was using was fucked beyond belief compared what SE showed.

Yes it was a more solid view of an AV fight but they took all the fat from the dev video and used it to their existing strategies. I.E Bouncing AV back and forth between 2 PLD if not 3.

They never 2hr'd when he 2hr'd and only once did i see anything related or an attempt to build a 2hr setup.

Manafont > Manafont > Chainspell... but AV used Mighty Strikes...
In another video AV used Invincible... 10 seconds later their tank uses Invincible... I believe this was too late although during that video i dont think AV used Invincible again... the camera person was often out of range 50% of the time during all the attempts.

So i still stand by my word that these 2hours can be locked ... noone has shown me proof that this doesn't twork...

I've seen and read most of the thread Courtney gave me but it was either a complete "well what if thoery" or relations to the Demo videos which by all means are in accurate.

I saw my conclusion brought up once or twice and people did give a storyline of what their AV did. but it never showed a repeat of that 2hr or if that 2hr fell out of the time alotted or not

 

[Moink]

Some things to add are that the Aeren's around AV spawn are connected somehow, not entirely sure how, I saw that the their job may affect him but ive seen AV in these videos abuse a 2hr multiple times and thus ignored.

I would probably suggest that there are important 2hrs to lock and ones that should just be ignored or otherwise left so as to not reset the 2hours.

 

[Hexx]

So then maybe the jobs that the Aerns around AV are using would be the 2hrs that AV is more than likely gonna use, and in turn, should be the ones locked maybe? Are you saying that locking too many 2hrs would reset the ones ALREADY locked?

 

[Courtney]

The main problem with AV is there isn't even a theory of how to beat him. If you have a tactic thats effective, you can work on it, and experiment with different ideas. Unfortunately, nothing thats been done has really had an effect on him.

The SE Video gave a few new ideas to start with, but nothing that was tried really got us any closer. Theories tried:

1. Spamming 2 hours after AV 2 houred could lock its 2 hour.
Spamming 2hours was tried, but had no noticable effect. AV continued to 2 hour, and could still reuse the same 2 hour.

2. Matching 2 Hours after AV 2 hours.
Matching 2 hours was tried and also had no effect. AV continued to use its 2 hours on time, and continued to use 2 hours that had been matched.

3. Rotating low strength nukes of the element of the current day either weakens AV, or negates its regen.
In the video the BLMs spammed low strength nukes of the day. When players tried this, there was no noticible weakening of AV, and no interruption in its use of 2 hours. It possible has an affect on its regen, but it doesn't prevent it.

4. Aggressive Actions on AV encourage it to use Aggressive 2 hours.
Theorised after some people were mashed by 2 hours after using agressive abilities on AV. Unfortunately, people simply holding AV found that they got mashed as well, having used nothing for hate that the SE team didn't use.

5. Using Job Abilities including Weaponskills provokes AV into using Agressive 2 hours.
Analysis of the videos showed no correlation between aggressive 2 hours and AV using nasty 2 hours such as Chainspell. People would use abilities and AV didn't respond, and no abilities were used and AV would still use nasty 2 hours.

6. There is some way of players regenerating 2 hours so that they can be used multiple times against AV (probably to effect points 1 & 2).
No regenerating of 2 hours has ever been observed. The theory came about as some players in the SE video use 2 hours multiple times, and there were no way for them to do this when AV was introduced.


There are reports of all of these being tried after the SE video was released. We tried them all as well, to no effect.

So far, since the SE video was released, there have been no confirmed locking of AVs 2 hours and no confirmed reports of PCs being able to effect any changes to AVs 2 hours (either the frequency AV 2 hours, or which 2 hours it uses). Most theories on how this needs to be killed rely on affecting or locking its 2 hours, and so far, it's preved to be the proverbial immovable object.

Whether you believe the reports or not, noone is killing it, and it hasn't been killed since the SE video. Either the point of the video has been missed by the entire playing population, or the mob is broken. Either way, if the answer is in the SE video, it isn't obvious.

 

[Moink]

So then maybe the jobs that the Aerns around AV are using would be the 2hrs that AV is more than likely gonna use, and in turn, should be the ones locked maybe? Are you saying that locking too many 2hrs would reset the ones ALREADY locked?

Im saying there should be 2-hours that need locks and 2-hours you should ignore. I only believe in this because AV used a 2hour during his death, I would assume Might Strikes or something somewhat minscule (sp)

Important 2-hours being:

Benediction
Manafont
Chainspell
Hundred Fists
Eagle-eye Shot
Astral Flow
Call Wyvern
Familiar
Blood Weapon
Mijin
SAM 2hr

Less important ones:

Invincible
Perfect Dodge
Soul Voice
Mighty Strikes

They should otherwise be ignored.

An Aearns job doesn't force AV to go one way or the other, they only seem to have an influence whether one is up or not and if was is it can get nasty. Worse if the other 2 show up. (Another speculation, but this one I don't believe)

The Aerns importance isn't their Jobs, or whatever 2hr it may make AV trigger, its what the dev team has wanted us to look at all along. They've said it many times in the BG forums and in the interviews. Stop the regen.
Aerns within the direct area of AV can and possibly be the cause of his regen (Other then same spell use as day).

Throughout the time of the video, you only see a 2/3 portion of the team taking on AV. It is more then likely that the other 1/3 is actually out killing the Aerns around him, because they never show up until the end. Also this party wouldn't be in range of AV unlesss an Aern was near him and to primarily focus on them and not AV.

 

[Tymon]

That's actually confirmed. Killing the aerns and nuking with the element of the current day in game does lower his regen.

 

[Dowzer]

It mainly uses Maiden's Virelai with SV, a few charmed tanks can't be good.

 

[Moink]

The main problem with AV is there isn't even a theory of how to beat him. If you have a tactic thats effective, you can work on it, and experiment with different ideas. Unfortunately, nothing thats been done has really had an effect on him.

The SE Video gave a few new ideas to start with, but nothing that was tried really got us any closer. Theories tried:

1. Spamming 2 hours after AV 2 houred could lock its 2 hour.
Spamming 2hours was tried, but had no noticable effect. AV continued to 2 hour, and could still reuse the same 2 hour.

I am not sure why that was ever conceived but the video points out itself that doesn't work.

2. Matching 2 Hours after AV 2 hours.
Matching 2 hours was tried and also had no effect. AV continued to use its 2 hours on time, and continued to use 2 hours that had been matched.

Was this done under the condition that this needed to be done as fast as possible? Not "Did he just use Chianspell, should I chainspell?" ordeal. I highly believe that once AV uses you are timed to match him. 2 out of the 3 important 2hrs show this in succession and without delay.

3. Rotating low strength nukes of the element of the current day either weakens AV, or negates its regen.
In the video the BLMs spammed low strength nukes of the day. When players tried this, there was no noticible weakening of AV, and no interruption in its use of 2 hours. It possible has an affect on its regen, but it doesn't prevent it.

Only one Thunder was cast during that and it was promptly on the start of a new day. The rest appeared to be high spells... hell even a Blizard 4 was used (Although i would hope it was stopped before going off).

4. Aggressive Actions on AV encourage it to use Aggressive 2 hours.
Theorised after some people were mashed by 2 hours after using agressive abilities on AV. Unfortunately, people simply holding AV found that they got mashed as well, having used nothing for hate that the SE team didn't use.

This Aggressive action was only done near the mobs death, not at the start. Up until slowing up the Regen. almost everyone was using a staff, there are exceptions such as the relic scythe.

5. Using Job Abilities including Weaponskills provokes AV into using Agressive 2 hours.
Analysis of the videos showed no correlation between aggressive 2 hours and AV using nasty 2 hours such as Chainspell. People would use abilities and AV didn't respond, and no abilities were used and AV would still use nasty 2 hours.

Most if not all of the Demo videos show the PLD using his Abilities as well as other people ignoring that rule. Idk why this would be conceived either considering Using or not using JAs wasn't a part of the movie clip. They were mainly trying to say alive hence why there are so many earth staves.

6. There is some way of players regenerating 2 hours so that they can be used multiple times against AV (probably to effect points 1 & 2).
No regenerating of 2 hours has ever been observed. The theory came about as some players in the SE video use 2 hours multiple times, and there were no way for them to do this when AV was introduced.

Yes multiple people used 2-hours repeatedly... but not in the same scene.

Timeline is shortened but i believe that the time the day changes to thundersday to the next scene where its and early thundersday are two completely different days... this puts this AV fight at 7 hours easy already.

Then into the final day being Iceday... adding an additional 6 hours atleast.

The timeline in this fight seems more accurate and can explain why they used 2hours seeming somewhat more possible on the same day.

There are reports of all of these being tried after the SE video was released. We tried them all as well, to no effect.

So far, since the SE video was released, there have been no confirmed locking of AVs 2 hours and no confirmed reports of PCs being able to effect any changes to AVs 2 hours (either the frequency AV 2 hours, or which 2 hours it uses). Most theories on how this needs to be killed rely on affecting or locking its 2 hours, and so far, it's preved to be the proverbial immovable object.

Whether you believe the reports or not, noone is killing it, and it hasn't been killed since the SE video. Either the point of the video has been missed by the entire playing population, or the mob is broken. Either way, if the answer is in the SE video, it isn't obvious.

At a minimum of a 13 hours fight I would think these players took their time with the mob and slowly killed it.

Days that would seem confusing like Lightsday and Darksday aren't that hard to figure. Either use one or all low tier Dark or Light related primary nukes and hope it keeps the regen down... otherwise your in for a tough 2 days and a nasty regen aside from killing aerns

 

[Moink]

It mainly uses Maiden's Virelai with SV, a few charmed tanks can't be good.

Sleep them or Repose them or just nuke their asses... They have time to rebuild hate... If anything I would put Soul Voice into an optional panel but I don't see the dire need to lock it.

 

[Moink]

That's actually confirmed. Killing the aerns and nuking with the element of the current day in game does lower his regen.

I would imagine that this party was dedicated to just killing Aerns around him and not the entire zone?

From the Dev video... I think that just one tier one spell needs to be used the rest can be high level tier 4 but of the same element... its either that or it works like sleep and sleep 2. Eventually wears out and must repeat the cycle. one tier 1 spell rest are tier 4... wait for it to wear again... repeat...

 

[Courtney]

I am not sure why that was ever conceived but the video points out itself that doesn't work.

I don't understand the comment. In the SE video, after AV 2hours, multiple players of multiple jobs 2 houred. Thats where the theory came from. What it was intended for is unknown, as there is no observable effect in the SE video, and none has been noticed when PCs have tried.

Was this done under the condition that this needed to be done as fast as possible? Not "Did he just use Chianspell, should I chainspell?" ordeal. I highly believe that once AV uses you are timed to match him. 2 out of the 3 important 2hrs show this in succession and without delay.

It was done as fast as possible from when AV 2 houred.

Only one Thunder was cast during that and it was promptly on the start of a new day. The rest appeared to be high spells... hell even a Blizard 4 was used (Although i would hope it was stopped before going off).

Its difficult to measure the regen of the mob. It's HP is variable. If it has affected AVs regen though, it's only a small victory, as it's regen isn't particularly relevant if it can potentially Bene every two minutes.

This Aggressive action was only done near the mobs death, not at the start. Up until slowing up the Regen. almost everyone was using a staff, there are exceptions such as the relic scythe.

Which is why there was a theory that you couldn't attack it aggressively. As I said this was tested (you can see it in the linked videos) and no correlation between aggression and reaction was found.

Most if not all of the Demo videos show the PLD using his Abilities as well as other people ignoring that rule. Idk why this would be conceived either considering Using or not using JAs wasn't a part of the movie clip. They were mainly trying to say alive hence why there are so many earth staves.

It was theorised that Offensive JAs were the problem. The SE video had people using Defensive JAs.

Yes multiple people used 2-hours repeatedly... but not in the same scene.

Timeline is shortened but i believe that the time the day changes to thundersday to the next scene where its and early thundersday are two completely different days... this puts this AV fight at 7 hours easy already.

Then into the final day being Iceday... adding an additional 6 hours atleast.

The timeline in this fight seems more accurate and can explain why they used 2hours seeming somewhat more possible on the same day.



At a minimum of a 13 hours fight I would think these players took their time with the mob and slowly killed it.

Days that would seem confusing like Lightsday and Darksday aren't that hard to figure. Either use one or all low tier Dark or Light related primary nukes and hope it keeps the regen down... otherwise your in for a tough 2 days and a nasty regen aside from killing aerns

At the start of the linked thread there is a generally assumed timeline of the fight. As there has been no evidence at all shown (either in the SE video or since) that AVs 2 hours can be locked a 13 hour (in fact its 21 hours if the clips are in order... they're not, they're simply showing different aspects of the fight) fight is not possible. Too many possible Benedictions.


I really suggest if you're serious, you look at what has already been tried. You're perfectly free to ignore all the detailed testing and first hand reports that have already been done, and develop your own theories from scratch though. AV Isn't that hard to pop.

 

[Moink]

I really suggest if you're serious, you look at what has already been tried. You're perfectly free to ignore all the detailed testing and first hand reports that have already been done, and develop your own theories from scratch though. AV Isn't that hard to pop.

I am serious about my idea, however, I am one man and AV requires the attention of atleast 24 people and other variables such as a long a day.

The videos and the link to BG about these videos are inaccurate and go against anything SE has done. Like I said, the camera man goes out of range atlmost half the time and no set strategy was in order except maybe the 4th attempt... other then that... it was chaos for them.

 

[LadyKiKi]

The videos and the link to BG about these videos are inaccurate and go against anything SE has done. Like I said, the camera man goes out of range atlmost half the time and no set strategy was in order except maybe the 4th attempt... other then that... it was chaos for them.

Just remember to factor in the panic/confusion/understanding of the players and thrown altogether with AV's behaviour in general, it's kinda difficult to form strategy out of chaos.

 

[Westyle]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread.