THF use SATA (Viper Bite) Plz kthanxbai

I may know how to SATA and whatnot on thf but lately my problem has been tanks that run out from TA/SATA or stand at max range making it impossible for me to get behind them and still hit the mobs. been a big pain lvling thf but at least I'll finally have TH4 in a few more lvls.
 
(For the below points, "well-executed" means that it's lined up and pulled off correctly and *quickly*. The assumption is also that SATA is being used to plant hate on a single solid tank, as it has other handy applications - which are a little harder to screw up - for hate-bouncing situations.)

Important point 1: a well-executed SATA (plus possible WS) is awesome, good damage, and useful. Should rarely be *necessary* with a good quality tank (who, if worth their salt, should be thoroughly capable of holding hate on their own), but is nevertheless *helpful*.

Important point 2: between tank, voker (or whatever hate tool they use), and THF, it's very rare to *get* consistently well-executed SATAs.

Important point 3: a poorly executed SATA is less useful than omitting the SATA entirely. Voker takes too much damage, healer spends too much MP (and gets too much hate) keeping voker (and possibly themselves) alive, tank has to wait too long to start their own hate generation, DDs have to wait too long for tank to have hate before they can start their own damage.

Conclusion: do it with competent people. Don't even bother trying without competent people, it's more hindrance than benefit.

Conclusion 2: since an entire pick-up of competent people is rather a rare occasion, expect not to do SATA in pick-ups. And make a mental note not to party again with anyone who insists on doing them even after it's demonstrably not working well, because such people are by definition impractical, stubborn, and oblivious. (People who insist on doing them when they *do* turn out to work well are, of course, another matter entirely.)
 
Bluefrost said:
I quit my THF at 51 because people didn't know how SATA worked, even after I asked them, "Do you know how SATA works?"
"LOL yeah im not a nub"
So then I tell them my TP and then.... nothing.

Too many people are scared of SATA. :\
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That would actually require more people to do work, when most just want to DD/NIN to 75 by engaging, and watching their TP crawl to 100%, WS, wash, rinse, repeat.

That's also why nobody wants BLM's in EXP parties (well, that and reflecting mobs)...because they are lazy fuckers.
 
Your fault for inviting a thf. It's easily one of the worst jobs when played by a player of moderate skill level. Even pup outperforms thf in the hands of the inept.
 
Flag said:
At level 30 you should be using dual daggers though, or at the very least one of them, since getting VB as soon as possible is kind of a priority
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At level 30 you should be using Berserk. There's no good offhand daggers at that level and if you're getting hit as THF then someones sucking at their job.
 
Before 30, Ive seen some (one or two) decent thf/rng's using swords. They can put out some mean damage.
 
I see many thiefs soloing these days frustrated with either a lack of invites or bad party situations, Beseiged and Campaign have allowed people to solo their way many levels. Of course this also means they have little practical experience in a party situation.
 
I havent leveled my thf past 15 mainly because I dont know how to play the job. I wanna level it, and I'm not afraid to say I dont know how to play the job. Its one thing to level it up but i wanna learn how to do all the kewl stuff. I refuse to work on it until i know what I'm doing, so if any of you thfz (good ones) can help me out send me a pm with your tips. For now, I wants to be an uber tank heheh so I'm working on my pally, will take tips on that one too.
 
experience is the greatest and harshest teacher, you should keep leveling it and learn more about it as you go you can know something but not know how to implement it until you're able to use it.

even though it takes time, you need some sort of practice with anything
 
Vilurum said:
(For the below points, "well-executed" means that it's lined up and pulled off correctly and *quickly*. The assumption is also that SATA is being used to plant hate on a single solid tank, as it has other handy applications - which are a little harder to screw up - for hate-bouncing situations.)

Important point 1: a well-executed SATA (plus possible WS) is awesome, good damage, and useful. Should rarely be *necessary* with a good quality tank (who, if worth their salt, should be thoroughly capable of holding hate on their own), but is nevertheless *helpful*.

Important point 2: between tank, voker (or whatever hate tool they use), and THF, it's very rare to *get* consistently well-executed SATAs.

Important point 3: a poorly executed SATA is less useful than omitting the SATA entirely. Voker takes too much damage, healer spends too much MP (and gets too much hate) keeping voker (and possibly themselves) alive, tank has to wait too long to start their own hate generation, DDs have to wait too long for tank to have hate before they can start their own damage.

Conclusion: do it with competent people. Don't even bother trying without competent people, it's more hindrance than benefit.

Conclusion 2: since an entire pick-up of competent people is rather a rare occasion, expect not to do SATA in pick-ups. And make a mental note not to party again with anyone who insists on doing them even after it's demonstrably not working well, because such people are by definition impractical, stubborn, and oblivious. (People who insist on doing them when they *do* turn out to work well are, of course, another matter entirely.)
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1) SATA on the tank is a way of telling the DDs in the group that they don't have to hold back all the way, so the greatness in SATA isn't just the initial damage, it's what your party can do afterwards without getting hurt too badly.

2) This is true.

3) This is also true.

4) At least post-45 your pt doesn't need to be competent for you to sometimes SATA mobs, since hide allows you to do it without relying on anyone every fifth minute. Better than never at all I guess.. But still, at 45 your pt should know how SATA works.

5) Truest statement I've seen in this thread.
 
yeah, even a good tank can have hate taken from them, especially lolnin. Sata isnt only good for that initial spike in hate for the tank, but its to help the DD's and healers stay unscathed.
 
Mishaela said:
At level 30 you should be using Berserk. There's no good offhand daggers at that level and if you're getting hit as THF then someones sucking at their job.
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Except for the fact that you should be pulling? THF is one of the best jobs for pulling at that lvl.
 
Rappa said:
You don't need shadows to pull, unless you fail at life.
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Most parties ask for it though, and when I lvld thf, it was my first job I learned to pull on.


Sad thing about all of this, one of the reasons I stopped lvlng thf at 45 was it was too easy, lol. That and the fact thf did almost nothing in emergency situations. Outside of the noobs who couldnt line up right, it was just, pull, SATA Ws (if I had TP) maybe another SATA during fight at some point if the mob was still alive, repeat. Guess I'll never be able to lvl mnk, lol.
 
Just do what I always did back when I played. I would seek party on job/desirablesubjob then after I was invited I went anon and swapped to job/subjobthatdoesntsuck and no one EVER said anything.
 
I use sleep bolts for emergency situations. Also, if you're fighting crawlers with no RDM, SCH, BLU, etc etc, you're the only source of defense down unless you have a RNG who uses acid bolts as well.
If you're a THF and you don't level marksmanship, you're either too cheap, or you don't realise the potential with it.
 
Flag said:
I use sleep bolts for emergency situations. Also, if you're fighting crawlers with no RDM, SCH, BLU, etc etc, you're the only source of defense down unless you have a RNG who uses acid bolts as well.
If you're a THF and you don't level marksmanship, you're either too cheap, or you don't realise the potential with it.
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Ive ran into too many thieves that did not know the potential that bolts had... Or SJ's besides nin
 
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