This is Fucked up, Cops should get sued and go to Jail

[Lecreuset]

So in your mind its more plausable that the kid had a gun made up of undetectable material then he had no gun at all? I just want to know what type of person I'm dealing with here.

Now, lets say your an assassin. Are you going to get up and make a huge scene and bring attention to yourself? Or are you going to try to get as close as you can to your target before you try to kill them. Again, use common sense. In fact, I challenge you to find one high profile assasination attempt where the person was yelling at his victim before he attempted to kill him.

And for your information, I am not the "It -couldn't-happen-to-me" type. I am a realist and am aware the dangers in the world. However, I do not allow these dangers to rule my life much like a number of people in this thread.

And as for the Nirvana quote? Who exactly are you worried are after you?

Are you from texas?

Rather assume he has something than nothing.

Pass on the challenge, too lazy to do it when you can't even show us the origin and direction of your logic to your conclusion from earlier. For all I know it hasn't happened yet in modern times, but I could really care less about current events right now until I sort out my own lovely world. <3

This could've been a kid going for it and just tweaking last minute. My sole point is it could have been. It doesn't dominate my life, but I'd rather keep an eye on my back more often than not.

Nirvana? Ew, I'm going to have to stop using that quote. Some of their music was ok, but overall egh.

South Florida.

 

[Sirelrohir]

Rather assume he has something than nothing.

Pass on the challenge, too lazy to do it when you can't even show us the origin and direction of your logic to your conclusion from earlier. For all I know it hasn't happened yet in modern times, but I could really care less about current events right now until I sort out my own lovely world. <3

This could've been a kid going for it and just tweaking last minute. My sole point is it could have been. It doesn't dominate my life, but I'd rather keep an eye on my back more often than not.

Nirvana? Ew, I'm going to have to stop using that quote. Some of their music was ok, but overall egh.

South Florida.

uh huh

 

[Thelona]

However, he was subdued by normal conventional means, and handcuffed, with six police officers on top of him. Yes, he was still struggling, but all he could do at that point was squirm and flop around a bit. For police to use weaponry, the suspect must be presenting a clear threat to the safety or lives of the officers or nearby civilians. Now, for the question of the day: What threat does a young man, subdued on the ground and literally covered in other people present to anyone's lives?

first of all he WASN'T handcuffed when they tazerd him.

second, please point out where it says someone has to be presenting a clear and present danger to the lives of the officer or civilians for an officer to use a tazer? When you pose a clear and present danger to the lives of officers or civilians they fucking SHOOT you, and with a REAL gun not a tazer.

 

[beeznuts]

first of all he WASN'T handcuffed when they tazerd him.

second, please point out where it says someone has to be presenting a clear and present danger to the lives of the officer or civilians for an officer to use a tazer? When you pose a clear and present danger to the lives of officers or civilians they fucking SHOOT you, and with a REAL gun not a tazer.

776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.
law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. The officer is justified in the use of any force:
(1) Which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to defend himself or herself or another from bodily harm while making the arrest;
(2) When necessarily committed in retaking felons who have escaped; or
(3) When necessarily committed in arresting felons fleeing from justice. However, this subsection shall not constitute a defense in any civil action for damages brought for the wrongful use of deadly force unless the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by such flight and, when feasible, some warning had been given, and:
(a) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon poses a threat of death or serious physical harm to the officer or others; or
(b) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm to another person.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes....HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0776->Section 05#0776.05

If he didn't actually have the cuffs on him at that point, they had to have been damn close. While he did attempt to resist and pull away, not once did he make an offensive action toward any officer there, something that's part of a distinction I'd hope a well trained officer could make.

"Wasn't complying" isn't enough. The second he tried to bite or scratch, they'd be justified. Somehow I have a feeling this isn't the case, but if it was, then yes, they probably would be. I doubt few people will know the truth regarding this, to be honest.

Oh, and yeah, the fact that any officers were suspended is meaningless, that's pretty standard, it only means they're investigating things.

 

[Thelona]

The second he tried to bite or scratch, they'd be justified. Somehow I have a feeling this isn't the case, but if it was, then yes, they probably would be. I doubt few people will know the truth regarding this, to be honest.

Thats far from a threat to the lives of officers, I was referring to where you said

Now, for the question of the day: What threat does a young man, subdued on the ground and literally covered in other people present to anyone's lives

Yeah its debatable if the tazer was called for I guess. but thats a pretty vague statute that you linked tho, and I'm pretty sure theres alot more to the guild lines of whats considered a justifiable use of a tazer. guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that part, the courts will ultimately decided.

also keep in mind that these were campus police not, "well trained officers"

The distinction of whether or not the guy was cuffed when they tazed him is an extremely important distinction, if they had tazed him AFTER he was cuffed, it would have been completely different. You can see in the video about 2 seconds before they taze him(or at least about 2 seconds before he starts screaming like a little girl) thats hes NOT cuffed.

anyways I'm about tired of beating this dead horse.

 

[beeznuts]

Thats far from a threat to the lives of officers, I was referring to where you said


Yeah its debatable if the tazer was called for I guess. but thats a pretty vague statute that you linked tho, and I'm pretty sure theres alot more to the guild lines of whats considered a justifiable use of a tazer. guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that part, the courts will ultimately decided.

also keep in mind that these were campus police not, "well trained officers"

The distinction of whether or not the guy was cuffed when they tazed him is an extremely important distinction, if they had tazed him AFTER he was cuffed, it would have been completely different. You can see in the video about 2 seconds before they taze him(or at least about 2 seconds before he starts screaming like a little girl) thats hes NOT cuffed.

anyways I'm about tired of beating this dead horse.

It's a pretty big threat if he has any major disease.

One of the articles earlier stated that these campus security rental cop type folks were required by most states to undergo proper police training. If they haven't, or are untrained, I see no reason why they should be allowed to carry and use weapons in this manner, or apprehend anyone in this fashion.

 

[Romper]

stouter beat me to this one. But really man, you sound like you have ZERO understanding of how the real world works, I think your mother should have beat you more growing up, your sounding like one of those 16 yo's thats never been truly disciplined in your life and still walk around with absolutely NO sense of personle responsibility.

your actions have consequences, go around acting like the douche bag in the video and resist arrest, theres a good chance your gonna get your ass beat. Sorry but thats how it works, if you don't like that you might wanna go to a country with no form of law enforcement, tho most of those are run by heavily armed drug lords and they'll shoot you just for being white.

grow up imo.

Since when is being a douche bag a law breaking offense? Did you not see where he was on his back then he got tasered? Sorry if you think he did something law breaking you're stupid. If being a douche bag was a law breaking offense where are the people that cut you off in a really tight spot in lanes on the highway? The people that yell at the movie screen during a movie? The people that gaze at a stalled car on the side of the road? Ok that last one isn't really a douche bag thing, but it pisses me off that people basically have to stop and gawk.

 

[Darkdante]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flftaserboy0919nbsep20,0,4962681.story

Apparently the use of the taser followed the rules.

 

[beeznuts]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flftaserboy0919nbsep20,0,4962681.story

Apparently the use of the taser followed the rules.

The school is saying they were justified, other organizations are saying they were not. That's how it always goes with anything. The independent Florida investigation is still pending, just to clear this up. No matter the result, it's as others have said: It's extremely difficult for an officer to actually get in trouble for their actions. This stuff happens because law enforcement officers can and do get away with it. I'm not sure how this will continue to unfold, but I don't have high hopes at this point.

 

[Darkdante]

Well they do have a tough job. I don't think it's very easy when you have people like that going out of their way to cause trouble. Had he just gone quietly like everyone is supposed to do, no problem.

But he put the cops in a position of taking a risk of getting injured themselves struggling with this guy or even injuring him, or settling the situation right then and there with little long term effects.

And yes the taser can hurt you, but in general it has been shown not to, which is why it is used. Especially compared to physical force, or firearms.

 

[Darkdante]

http://resources.lawinfo.com/index....109&act=faq&keywords=&state=&subcatid=265&i=a

More stuff to feed the taser gun safety debate.

 

[Thelona]

Sorry if you think he did something law breaking you're stupid.

Yeah when the officers went to escort him out of the auditorium and he resisted, he broke the law! It seems that you have next to 0 understanding of what the law is. Did you not pay attention to this class in high school? or don't they have a law class where you come from?

 

[beeznuts]

Yeah when the officers went to escort him out of the auditorium and he resisted, he broke the law! It seems that you have next to 0 understanding of what the law is. Did you not pay attention to this class in high school? or don't they have a law class where you come from?

He means the reason the guy was being escorted out in the first place. It's very circular to say "He wouldn't be in trouble if he hadn't resisted arrest!"

The whole thing was handled poorly from the start, you don't need to bring the police in just because someone is being obnoxious. Cut the microphone, refuse to proceed, or, you know, let Kerry continue his presentation in the manner he wanted to. If the officers acted at the request of the school, it's shitty. If they acted of their own accord, it's downright uncalled for.

This whole thing was unnecessarily escalated in several ways, with conflicting attitudes from everyone involved (Kerry saying it's fine, police for some reason attempting to remove him...)

Resisting arrest, while yes it is a crime even if none was committed, still falls apart when there was no original crime.

 

[Thelona]

Resisting arrest, while yes it is a crime even if none was committed, still falls apart when there was no original crime.

they weren't arresting him to begin with, they were escorting him out of the auditorium, if he had gone quietly they would have just led him outside and there, end of story.

Its a black and white issue to me, the organizers of the event asked the security to remove him for heckling Kerry and creating a scene. There need be no initial crime for the organizers of the event to have him removed from the premises. Being a douche may not be against the law but you can certainly be physically removed from a school, collage, mall, bar, store,etc. for acting like that.

 

[beeznuts]

they weren't arresting him to begin with, they were escorting him out of the auditorium, if he had gone quietly they would have just led him outside and there, end of story.

Its a black and white issue to me, the organizers of the event asked the security to remove him for heckling Kerry and creating a scene. There need be no initial crime for the organizers of the event to have him removed from the premises. Being a douche may not be against the law but you can certainly be physically removed from a school, collage, mall, bar, store,etc. for acting like that.

And the person standing there giving the presentation was saying otherwise. While I'm aware that he is not the owner of the facility, it's hard to say someone is being disruptive when the most important person to the entire thing, John Kerry, is saying "No, this is perfectly fine, leave things be."

While not the fault of the officers, there was no legitimate reason to escalate the entire situation needlessly. The officers are then at fault for escalating the situation again, in my opinion. This is something that could have ended much more peacefully than it did, due to foolishness on many parts.

 

[Thelona]

how long should they have let him go on?. This guy had his chance to be civil but he choose not to be. They asked him many times to go sit down, he had longer at the podium then anyone else at that event got, allowing him to continue for as long as the guy wanted is unfair to the rest of the people at that event. They made the call to have him removed and from that point forward theres no going back.

Its ether A) you come outside with these officers or B) these officers MAKE you go outside.

Sure they could have let him continue and let kerry answer his question, but how much longer would that scene have gone on? quite awhile i think seeing as the douche bag probably would have done everything he could to further escalate the situation and give the officers no choice but to escort him out. The guy wanted exactly what happened, I think he fancys himself a hero. and the sad part is alot of brainless mouth breathing idiots are treating like a hero as tho "they tazerd him for asking a question omg!"

People are so quick to excuse a complete lack of personal responsibility for a chance to point their fingers at the government or law enforcement and make some conspiracy out of it.

 

[beeznuts]

how long should they have let him go on?. This guy had his chance to be civil but he choose not to be. They asked him many times to go sit down, he had longer at the podium then anyone else at that event got, allowing him to continue for as long as the guy wanted is unfair to the rest of the people at that event. They made the call to have him removed and from that point forward theres no going back.

Its ether A) you come outside with these officers or B) these officers MAKE you go outside.

Sure they could have let him continue and let kerry answer his question, but how much longer would that scene have gone on? quite awhile i think seeing as the douche bag probably would have done everything he could to further escalate the situation and give the officers no choice but to escort him out. The guy wanted exactly what happened, I think he fancys himself a hero. and the sad part is alot of brainless mouth breathing idiots are treating like a hero as tho "they tazerd him for asking a question omg!"

People are so quick to excuse a complete lack of personal responsibility for a chance to point their fingers at the government or law enforcement and make some conspiracy out of it.

So turn his fucking microphone off and be done with it. You don't need to get cops to remove someone just because he's going over time. If he seriously won't stop, and actually makes a scene, as opposed to just being an idiot, then the police can begin asking him to leave. There are many ways something like this can be handled, the thread on Slashdot had a few examples of similar situations that were significantly better handled than this was.

You're right though, had this played out differently, it's likely this guy would have made a scene anyway. The difference though, is that then he'd be entirely in the wrong. The biggest reason there were problems here is because so many people jumped the gun.

 

[Antor]

Are you reading what you're typing or do you even understand how the world works outside of your house? Something tells me you've never been to a club or any other social gathering that didn't involve watching anime or playing Dungeons and Dragons.

Why you're even remotely trying to defend this douchebag is beyond me.

 

[beeznuts]

Are you reading what you're typing or do you even understand how the world works outside of your house? Something tells me you've never been to a club or any other social gathering that didn't involve watching anime or playing Dungeons and Dragons.

Why you're even remotely trying to defend this douchebag is beyond me.

Good morning to you, ad hominem, and on two fronts no less.
I've said on numerous occasions that the guy was an ass, and was definitely in the wrong.

I'm not defending him in the slightest.

What I am doing, however, is saying that another person's actions in response to his are also wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Raesvelg]

Kerry was the speaker, which does not put him in control of the venue. He was almost undoubtedly a paid speaker, it's how these things operate. The guy standing behind the mic with the officers was probably in charge of handling the questions, and he gave the cut order. At that point, when he flips out because the organizer of the event cuts his mic and asks him to leave, he confirms any question as to whether or not he's disturbing the peace.

He breaks the law, he gets arrested, he resists arrest, he gets tasered. Seems like a pretty logical progression.