Time to sell all your Microsoft Stock(giant - high res picture warning)

I haven't seen anyone i wouldn't declare a fan boy say much, if anything, good about MS. I personally think they are about to be the second coming of Satan, but just because i play the game system satan sells doesn't make me like Satan any more. I play more multi-plats than first party games (CoD4 and Marvel Ult. Alliance Vs. Viva Pinata and Mass Effect). I basically only have a 360 because it was $100 cheaper, and i thought H3 was going to be such a massive let down.

Also with the whole buying off thing, are you really that paranoid? They can't buy off their whole consumer base, especially with a system that has such incredibly high failure rates.

Speaking of buying off people, are they still doing that "X amount of free blu rays with system purchase" deal? (Serious question btw.)
 
Ok here you go ele.
I hate MS for not making 100% fail proof product before releasing them.
I hate sony for pushing a movie player that they licence and fighting a platform war in the DVD war while they should be winning gamers over.
I hate Nintendo for sticking to the stone ages and if they win the system war, possibly bring us back a gen in gaming.

That is just one reason at the moment. I have tons of others. You are just bitching. Half the stuff you say is just your opinion. If MS products were realy that bad would they be in the position they are? No ass hole. Instead of dealing with it you call any one associated with them "Stupid" when you are the fucking tool. Just enjoy what is available now and shut up please. Stop bitching.
 
Oh come the fuck on. They still do sell shit because the general populace doesn't do research on their products and learn about the bugs until it's too late. I bet if a survey was done over the entire country about why they buy a product or if they do any research on it before they buy it well.. I guarantee the majority won't have done any research and bought it for some retarded reason like "it looks pretty" :\ I don't expect ANY product to be 100% failure proof, what I do expect is that the majority of the products release won't have such a horrible problem like oh.. every Windows OS when it's first released has had major flaws with either memory leaks or security problems or both or so many others. Hell, the last Microsoft Office had a huge problem where there were times you try and save a powerpoint or just a word document and you might lose everything due to some corruption problem (though this is what I've read, I stopped using Office awhile ago for open source stuff). Face it, I'm not wrong about this.

And there are worse things to hate Sony for :P come on, it's obvious they have "borrowed" (lolstolen) ideas from Nintendo and others before.

And ya, the only really bad thing I can even think of for Nintendo is that they aren't really new when it comes to their first person games and they don't use the top of the line hardware but they do make good ideas popular in gaming. Motion sensor isn't new but it's nice to see them having released a system with it and that could hopefully get more systems and companies to pick it up which could make more games interesting :P (by the way, I hate going to sleep stupid early and waking up this early XD)
 
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Because i'd say about 90% of the people who got broken 360's got new ones for free, whereas getting a PS3 would be another $500-600 (depending on time, and for any respectable model) of money that they may or may not have.

First off, you don't know if that's true. Secondly, 360 failure rate is over 30 times that of PS3. So even if that was true, it's still way, way, way more people just rebuying a 360. Lastly, when you're skewed that far, the people with broken PS3s tend to be more personally responsible. If the machine doesn't break on its own, it's more likely that you're the cause by bad handling.

Ok here you go ele.
I hate MS for not making 100% fail proof product before releasing them.
I hate sony for pushing a movie player that they licence and fighting a platform war in the DVD war while they should be winning gamers over.
I hate Nintendo for sticking to the stone ages and if they win the system war, possibly bring us back a gen in gaming.

That is just one reason at the moment. I have tons of others. You are just bitching. Half the stuff you say is just your opinion. If MS products were realy that bad would they be in the position they are? No ass hole. Instead of dealing with it you call any one associated with them "Stupid" when you are the fucking tool. Just enjoy what is available now and shut up please. Stop bitching.

Well as far as Nintendo goes, I don't particulary think that their first party games have ever required a lot of power. If you look at Nintendo, from the days of Sega, they have never been the strongest, or had the best tech. They stayed with the proprietary technology for longest. Hell, the Wii is the first system to use a standard media, DVD.

As for Microsoft, it's not so much the fact they released the bad hardware, but they got rewarded for it. Overall, it didn't hurt their image too bad because for some reason, Playstation 3 has a worse image because it released overpriced than Xbox 360 for being released with a 30%+ fail rate. I believe that's what Elemmire meant about paying people off, not the customers but the media to continue the perception that the Wii is not a real game system you should buy as a secondary toy after your main.. that PC gaming is completely too expensive even though it's not and it should be ignored, and that PS3 has no games and everything released should be bashed.

I don't like the idea that they get profit as a result from releasing early and buggy. This is not having anything to do with this generation at all. I already got a 360 and if they get more exclusives for years, I've got a 360 that isn't actually buggy and it doesn't hurt me. I'm more worried that Sony is going to counter with an early released, untested PS4 to jump ahead of Microsoft next generation because Microsoft seemed to profit from the move this gen. I think products that are untested and bugged should fail. Not win. I think companies should be properly motivated to make their products work.

The fact that hardcore gamers, the small percent of gamers that buy the most software don't seem to care and are happy to buy replacement 360s if the hardware is good, just means they're writing their own death sentence.

Why you ask?

One guy is going to launch first and buggy to grab marketshare. Sony or Microsoft, doesn't matter who. Nintendo is going to stick low tech and casual. The third guy is going to compete with Nintendo for cheap, casual market. The hardcore market is going to stay tiny and die, with only one company pushing high tech and getting the worst sales, combined with it having shit hardware.



Now onto Sony. I'm mostly pissed at them for letting so many of their important exclusives go. They fucking could have had GTA4 a timed exclusive. They could have kept Devil May Cry an exclusive. They should have just paid up and gotten more exclusives. They were too god damn arrogant that they would sell on the Playstation name. As a result to stay competitive, which they are, they slashed prices of the console. Yet again, they get rewarded for this. As a result they're close to 10 mill which considering their position a year ago, is fucking amazing. People were declaring Sony was going to drop the PS3, blah blah. The problem is that as an early adopters who paid $600, I'd rather have seen them pull themselves up by announcing an ungodly amount of games. I'd have liked to see them declare they just bought several studios. I was expecting a studio buying rampage.

Now the high price in the first place, I'm personally not mad about the Blu-ray drive. The only thing is I wish they waited longer and they had a blu-ray drive that could spin faster. More capacity is great, and it allows for games like Uncharted, but I'd like them to be able to pull data off the disc faster so the benefits would be more pronounced. Instead every fucking game has a harddrive install so they can leverage the hard drive. The 360 doesn't need the harddrive so much because the drive spins so fast. This is also why the 360 is freaking loud as hell.

As for the blu-ray inclusion at all? It's more about high def to me than the format. Wii fucks you if you like high def, by being standard def. PS3 fucks you with a player you can't use yet. 360 is about right for everyone. Having a high def TV, I love the blu-ray. That's just me though, and I have the TV. The important thing is that Sony took the hit not me. They didn't charge $800 for a PS3. So I bought the PS3 and they paid for the blu-ray drive. I just wish they had a blu-ray drive that would be a little better suited to games. On the other hand I'm pissed at Microsoft for the DVD drive, because I'm sure if both systems used Blu-ray then the effects would be more pronounced. I expect Sony first party to get better and better, hence... the images in my OP, because they don't have to deal with a 360 port. PS3 exclusives will pull ahead thanks to blu-ray, they just won't get better sales.
 
First off, you don't know if that's true. Secondly, 360 failure rate is over 30 times that of PS3. So even if that was true, it's still way, way, way more people just rebuying a 360. Lastly, when you're skewed that far, the people with broken PS3s tend to be more personally responsible. If the machine doesn't break on its own, it's more likely that you're the cause by bad handling.

Well i work at a place that has to deal with this everyday. MS ships you a box and you ship your 360 in it to them and they fix it for free, and then they send it back to you. If it goes beyond they first year (this was laughable back before they fixed their shit) then unless you bought it from target where you can't get a warranty, you got your shit fixed or completely replaced.

However, there are people who just buy a new xbox once theirs breaks, because they don't want to wait for a 4-5 week turnaround. Its stupid to say that because i don't know that 99% gets a new/fixed xbox for free that its more likely that they just went out and bought a new system.

I wouldn't put that past some people that come in my store, but i sure as hell wouldn't say that it is the standard thing to do, because after the second xbox goes it would be stupid to not buy a PS3.

It all pretty much comes down to that extra $100 that you have to pay right at the start. Its even more psychological than monetary, completely aside from marketing tactics, which i haven't seen anything of to say that PS3 is silly, and PC games aren't worth it (even though i don't think they are, but thats completely my own reason). If you'd care to link me to a propaganda or smear campaign for MS/against gaming i'd be happy to look at it and eat my words, that is, if it is actually something credible, and not just some retarded fanboy's online blog or something.
 
Companies are like politicians. They don't smear their competition openly. They talk up their advantages and they pay PR firms to do the dirty work, which includes spreading propoganda. This isn't a Microsoft exclusive, by any means, Sony did viral marketing hard with the PSP. The question being really what message are you getting out?

I don't see much in the way of Nintendo doing that bullshit. In terms of P.R. they're really the only clean company.

But you can really tell who is on who's payroll as long as you know the motivations. I think a good way to test Microsoft's footsoldiers is looking at the format war. You could predict what Microsoft wanted, for confusion leading to disenfranchised costumers and ultimately digital downloads. So pay attention to the same talking heads spouting how HD DVD was the smart buy, now saying digital downloads is the smart buy. It was 100% predictable, like watching puppets on strings. I tried to watch G4 a few weeks back, the guy was talking about how he had 5 HD TVs and the got all his movie content off downloading Xbox live rentals, then sneered at the thought of a PS3. That's a paid shill right there, the ultimate problem with the worthless gaming media, an industry that's suppose to report on games yet gets all its revenue from gaming publishers.
 
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then unless you bought it from target where you can't get a warranty, you got your shit fixed or completely replaced.

Huh? You can buy a three year warranty at target, all though i dont see the point since microsoft provides at 3 year service plan for free now.

Also ele stop bitching. The 360 has been the best system out there since it came out up until a few months back when some decent exclusives came out for the ps3 and wii, and I'd say its still arguably the best system out. And sure its probably because the 360 was released a year early, but it doesnt make the fact its game library was 100x better any less true. Honestly I like my 360 more than my PS3 and I've already had 1 rrod. I think having to wait 2 weeks for MS to fix a product they shipped early is a small price to pay for having a better product. Live > PSN and 360 library > PS3 library period. Thats how its been for 2 years, its how it is now and sure it may change, shit even by the end of this year, but atm 360 > PS3.

Sure thats entirely my opinion, but its no less true than yours or anyone elses opinion.
 
How Microsoft got away with selling a system that broke down so much to so many people without any repercussions is beyond me. HOWEVER.
I hate MS for not making 100% fail proof product before releasing them.
You have horrendous expectations. Show me any electronic product that had a 0% failure rate.
 
Companies are like politicians. They don't smear their competition openly. They talk up their advantages and they pay PR firms to do the dirty work, which includes spreading propoganda. This isn't a Microsoft exclusive, by any means, Sony did viral marketing hard with the PSP. The question being really what message are you getting out?

I don't see much in the way of Nintendo doing that bullshit. In terms of P.R. they're really the only clean company.

But you can really tell who is on who's payroll as long as you know the motivations. I think a good way to test Microsoft's footsoldiers is looking at the format war. You could predict what Microsoft wanted, for confusion leading to disenfranchised costumers and ultimately digital downloads. So pay attention to the same talking heads spouting how HD DVD was the smart buy, now saying digital downloads is the smart buy. It was 100% predictable, like watching puppets on strings. I tried to watch G4 a few weeks back, the guy was talking about how he had 5 HD TVs and the got all his movie content off downloading Xbox live rentals, then sneered at the thought of a PS3. That's a paid shill right there, the ultimate problem with the worthless gaming media, an industry that's suppose to report on games yet gets all its revenue from gaming publishers.

Eh, i hardly ever watch G4 anymore, and even when i did watch it, i only watched it for the VGA's. I'll just take your word on that stuff.

Huh? You can buy a three year warranty at target, all though i dont see the point since microsoft provides at 3 year service plan for free now.

That's news to me. Even though that 3 year warranty through MS is only for the RROD and not for anything else that could go wrong with it (Which is still alot of things).
 
I still don't understand how people think the 360 library of games is that much better than PS3. The only game I find worth it that wasn't or isn't on the PS3 is Dead Rising. I was just talking this about this yesterday actually about each of their games. Both of us own both systems and we both have played pretty much every game. Couple that with the fact we have each had 2 broken 360s and not a single PS3 problem, we are both leaning towards the PS3 right now. And I personally like the dedicated servers that PS3 titles bring, rather than playing on what Microsoft offers. Sure, Live has more people, but the competition you get from PS3 isn't too far behind.
 
That's the point really I was making. Shipping out early = more exclusives from larger base. Hardcore gamers are happy even if their systems are breaking. I'm just afraid that it'll lead to subsequent repeats of bad hardware in order to get a lead again next generation.

I don't really know how to put a value on install base. Microsoft pays 1 billion in repairs cost to get a 9 million userbase lead before the other systems launch. Is it worth it? I know I'd rather have had them release later with good hardware, and spend money developing software instead of fixing broken shit.

Really the best 360 games in the library has nothing to do with their install base anyway. COD4 and Rainbow 6 are multiplatforms. Halo 3 was first party. Mass Effect was published by MS. Even Gears of War was published by MS. The 3rd party exclusives have pretty much been there because they were low budget shit that wasn't worth porting or moneyhatted.

The year lead long term isn't going to do anything. All the games coming up for either system are 1st party, paid exclusives or multiplatforms.
 
So why pay $100 more for systems that are near identical in library. People don't care enough about blu ray yet to make that argument, and its the parents that buy the systems usually so they would rather take the $100 cheaper one and get it repaired every now and then vs. paying an extra $500 to get something new all together.

Parents don't care enough to research anything or they feel overwhelmed with all the information they have to keep track of, so they just listen to the kids that don't know anything about failure rates. or what not.

MS is pretty genius at what its doing. (Keep in mind it pisses me off to no end, and its a terrible thing to do, but they are damn good at it.)
 
Ele i wont agree with you about MS. You have too much hate in your blood. I mean seriously... How many hundreds of millions of Windows xp's are out there? All those people are stupid to you? All those people didnt know what they were buying? All those people did not research what they were buying? How many hundreds of millions of vistas are out there already? Is it past one hundred million yet? I dont know, but it will be.

They are THE people, that anyone who is not them, wants to be buddy. They lead software by a loooooooong mile.

I have alot of problems with everyone. I can agree with alot of stuff you say when you dont call people who buy their products stupid. I work for an Engineering firm, we use Windows. No one stupid in our building.

Fire, i agree with almost all you have said and am too tired from work to go back and talk about anything i did not agree with. I think we both agree there needs to be competition. You are pretty honest about your feelings towards each company and dont show much bias, unlike other posts... AKA the name of this thread lol...

For me Wii is not even in it this gen, i dont care about there sales. They are reaping benefits of HD not being more then 30% of the market at the moment. Look at it this way, if thats the sales they come up with, with a 70% market advantage... With 360 PS3 only that far behind selling to 30%... They are failing in some ways still lol. Their next console tho i am sure will be HD and will be advanced i would think from all the profit they make off wii milking. At the moment i hate them for not pushing technology.

PS3 is coming strong if these games are actualy released in 08' and not pushed to 09' like ff13. Sony will not let their share of gaming die and i am sure they will push harder. I do NOT like at all they used us for a video format war tho. Blue ray is cool. I love my blue rays. They will be great in future gaming when the space is needed for something more then BS audio. But we now have a BRD drive that spins so slow we need to install our games to our HD, just to make it load 1 second faster then the 360 and try to brag about it... Not to mention we have to tell all our friends to "Wait, just wait, the good games are coming" for over a year now.

I completly love MS for giving me a warranty for 3 years. Paying for my shipping and even giving bonus games at times when i got RRoD. I can admit i wanted to kill them the first time it happened. Even the first time it was fixed i was pissed. I still dont find the RRoD acceptable but i am willing to work with it. Man they really showed something when they gave that warranty, call it a fake "we care" if you will... Its better then being used for format war. I dont think they will win the whole gen.
 
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The title was mostly meant as a joke, but seriously, Resistance 2 is going to be great. The gameplay was so good on the original, combine that with graphics that look to top anything else we've been shown coming out this year, and add in all the technical advances they've promised. Sure, it could be delayed. It could end up looking worse than the screens. It could end up missing the features. However, Insomniac is the only devs you can say have a history of delivering on their promises. They were the only ones who didn't fuck up for PS3 launch. On Ratchet and Clank they gave exactly what they said. They actually exceeded visually the initial target, but that's not the only thing. It's that they didn't promise any features that would eventually not make it to the game. They don't just come out and say, "60 player multiplayer, 8 player co-op online!" everytime they play. They make realistic expectations and they deliver, on time. It's also their third game for the PS3. Delays have traditionally been caused by dev teams not knowing the PS3 when they start the project, or getting screwed by Unreal Engine 3 - which is supposedly fixed now.




As for Windows. Really that's kind of bullcrap. There is no choice but to use Windows pretty much. It has a monopoly on the computer industry. If you buy any PC from a manufacturer, it comes with windows installed already. If you build a PC yourself, you're a gamer, and you need windows to play anything that would be worth building a PC for. Yes, if you build your own computer and not with any intention to play games on it. you SHOULD use linux.

Now Apple, I hate more than Microsoft. They are the only serious competitor and they absolutely suck. Their Operating system is great... but their computers are overpriced to all hell. Top it all off, they have absolutely zero motivation in getting into gaming. Admittedly, they tried with Bungie, but of course, Microsoft went in and bought them out from under their noses, which was absolute bullshit.

If Apple was interested in market share they could take a big chunk from Microsoft. They just would rather mark up their computers to all hell and sell on their "hip image."

So seriously, people use Windows because they have got no choice. They are a monopoly and for their operating system have and still perform very unethical practices to make it impossible for competitors to get a foothold. To add to that, almost nothing of theirs was actually made by them, it was mostly stolen from other companies. Their original MS DOS was purchased by Gates for some cheap sum of money and then licensed to IBM, not built in house. Their Windows program was reversed engineered off a Macintosh. Even their applications like MS internet explorer wasn't made by them. It was another company that built it. Microsoft offered to sell their internet explorer and give them a percentage of the profit. They accepted. They went ahead and packaged the explorer into Windows, giving the company nothing. This is the shit they do.

And I don't think 100 million people have Vista, and I'm sure that 99% of Vista owners have it because it came packaged with their computer purchase.
 
Resistance will probably be a great game. Looks good. That was my main issue with the first and it was not that bad anyways. If these visuals stick or even close to it that would be great for us gamers.

All you said of MS was true but does not take anything away from the fact they got where they are today. They payed for the original MS DOS and took a chance on it. Because their chance payed off does not hurt them. They payed for Bungie long before they were going anywhere. They viewed other projects that were in competition and made them simple, it payed off also. Most of our so called "Innovation" and "Break throughs" today are borrowed ideas man. It also surely does not show people who support MS are stupid. I know you didnt say it fire but thats when i got ticked and decided to check this thread daily lol.
Now i wont argue against any of that because what you say is true but does it take away from them being incredible at what they do? I think it just shows they know wtf they are doing. Fire think about how much more advanced our tech would be now adays if Apple actually had nerve to compete. Those commercials are not enough man lol.
 
hehe, I am right about M$ though. They have yet to have one OS I've seen come out that DIDN'T have huge flaws. It's as Firestreak said, people get it because they have a monopoly on the computer world. Their OS are only worth getting a few years after released when they finally fix the bugs.

Now, I'm cool with maybe tiny glitches here and there for any program but when there are such HUGE memory leaks, security errors, and other problems and it happens OS after OS after OS... doesn't that piss you off too?
 
They're good at one thing, and that's business. They know exactly how to shove their stuff down our throats. However their operating system absolutely sucks. Vista I'm really thinking about going Apple to avoid if I need to. Hopefully it fails and something better comes along. I'm somewhat satisfied with XP finally. It was a hell of a lot better than any of their other modern operating systems, while it still sucks in comparison to Linux or a Mac. Just they have all the damn content locked into them.

They're going to push everyone to Vista though... by packaging Vista with new computers and doing what they always do, making it so Vista-exclusive software will for some unexplainable reason be unable to co-operate with XP's stuff. You will be happy with your XP computer, then one day someone sends you a Microsoft word file and you won't be able to open it, because it requires Microsoft Word 2008 to read. Then that requires Vista to install. They'll add some useless function to justify it, like the new Word program can add some useless feature, and as such won't be able to be opened on earlier models.

Really the thing is that I don't admire them at all. They were the right people, at the right place at the right time, licensed someone else's operating system to IBM(they actually promised the OS first and then bought it off the guy after) and every since they found themselves in the majority market share, they have done everything possible to hold it at the expense of the end user. That was their skill, and it's nothing to be proud of. You can say that with a unified platform, we got a lot more content, but their platform sucks. That's the problem. Why can't they build an operating system as good as Apple does? They have far more resources, they make so many billions of dollars off selling the product... why don't they make it good? Cause they don't have to.

Not all monopolies are like this, I should point out. Look at AT&T for example. They for many years were a complete monopoly of the wired telephone lines. They were a gigantic company. One thing they did though, is while they had no competition, they held up exceptional quality all around the country. My dad used to work for AT&T and he explained to me their philosophy - they saw their dominance as a responsibility, as people didn't have a choice they were determined to make sure that their only choice was as good as it could be. (They were eventually hammered hard by Sprint and their price wars.) Microsoft doesn't have this same philosophy that AT&T had. They see that people have no choice and as a result don't give a shit. Their software is built with the simply intention of forcing people onto it and then a few years later forcing them to something else.
 
So why pay $100 more for systems that are near identical in library. People don't care enough about blu ray yet to make that argument, and its the parents that buy the systems usually so they would rather take the $100 cheaper one and get it repaired every now and then vs. paying an extra $500 to get something new all together.

Parents don't care enough to research anything or they feel overwhelmed with all the information they have to keep track of, so they just listen to the kids that don't know anything about failure rates. or what not.

MS is pretty genius at what its doing. (Keep in mind it pisses me off to no end, and its a terrible thing to do, but they are damn good at it.)

Because that extra $100 gets me much more on the PS3 than that $100 would get me if I decided to upgrade a 360 to match the PS3. BluRay doesn't even matter when comparing the costs even though the added bonus is still there.
 
exactly Firestreak.. and some will go "Well that's business" and ya.. fine and dandy but there's more to the world than business. Piss off too many and things get bad.. use up too many resources and there will be consequences. As I said, they create crap knowing people will buy it either because they are stupid or because there really isn't a feasible option other than their crap. I praise them only because they know how to run a business well to make money and market but I hate them for their poor quality. I don't think Sony or Nintendo are the gods of quality either. To be honest I still think Apple made the best quality when they make software and their hardware (when they made it themselves) used to be top quality too. Now it's sorta average but ya.. they have a problem of cost. That was due to them needing a profit and not allowing cloning of their stuff as M$ did in the 80s. Nintendo would probably be the next in line but they don't innovate in terms of new hardware. They tend to stick with what is older hardware but they know how to work which is fine, their stuff is still quality. Sony, well it depends... I know a few things which have been quality and other products that were just crap :\
 
Well when you look at it this way - $350 against $400.

50 bucks more gets you...

Rechargable batteries in your controllers.
A wireless adapter.
A blu-ray player.(even if you don't have an HDTV, you can get blu-rays instead of DVDs, watch on standard def and have them when you go high def eventually, good thing to do for a movie like Pirates 3)
Free online multiplayer.
A pretty good internet browser.
A really good media player, with streaming from PC, ability to read off portable storage and ability to save media onto the hard drive.(360 has a decent media player too, but you can't save your media to the drive... or I haven't been able to figure out how, and you can't use portable media, or at least for movies it seems like)
Remote play with PSP.
Another 20 gigs.
The ability to put in any hard drive you want.
The ability to use any racing wheel you want.
Upscaling of PS1 games.
Hardware reliability.
For another $100 you get PS2 BC and some pack in game.
The ability to customize the operating system without having to pay for themes.

Now the 360...

You get a headset.
A video download rental service with badly compressed movies.
A packed in cord that outputs high def, but it's not HDMI which is much better for both consoles.
An extremely loud, annoying noise when a disc based game is playing.
30% or so of Xbox 1 games compatable.
The potential to plug in an HD DVD attachment, which is more expensive than clearance stand-alones now.
A far more seasoned online service, which while it costs money to play online, it has the ability to communicate with people playing different games.


Obviously parents don't know these all these things when they're buying the cheaper product. Then again maybe they just watched Fox news and don't want their kids playing an interactive sex simulator.
 
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