- Joined
- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 1,478
- Age
- 40
- Location
- Gloversville, NY
- Nation Banner
- Main Job
- Secondary Job
- Third Job
- Server
- Quetzalcoatl
- Linkshell
- NB/NT/NB ftw!
- FFXIV
- Lecan
I found this post on the Alla main forums. You may have already seen it, but for those who haven't, a JP tarutaru who also speaks english has given us a few tips and explanations about a few things that I imagine puzzle at least a few of us.
I personally believe this is a step in the right direction, perhaps someday we can all work together instead of continuing this foolish NA vs. JP nonsense. I also ask that you JP hater type people leave your flames on the flameboard, as this is a thread to stop that hate, and bring us closer together.
Original thread: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1143070925239131017;num=54;page=1
I personally believe this is a step in the right direction, perhaps someday we can all work together instead of continuing this foolish NA vs. JP nonsense. I also ask that you JP hater type people leave your flames on the flameboard, as this is a thread to stop that hate, and bring us closer together.
Original thread: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1143070925239131017;num=54;page=1
Uchipu of Alla said:This is based on my personal experience of EXPing thru 3 jobs as indicated in my signature.
This is also not to be taken as “JPs are better” or “JP way is the only way”, as I have been in a number of very good NA only PTs and very bad JP only PTs.
This is just some information that may come in handy - the next time you want to invite a JP person, or if you end up in a JP PT.
I am Japanese. Japanese is my first language and English is my second. Please excuse me for any spelling, or, grammatical errors that may occur. I currently reside in NYC.
Some background info about me:
Initially when I started leveling my first job, as a WHM, I had NA system. I played on the NA PS2, on NA PS version release date. I grew up in Japan, so playing Final Fantasy was like for most Americans, playing UNO (I have yet to meet an American that doesn’t know this game).
I am also not a “gamer”. This was my first MMORPG. Prior to FFXI, I did not know that you can play games on the PC…I thought PC was for work only, and consoles for games. Therefore, when FFXI came out, I opted to wait until NA release, instead of bothering my parents in Japan to send me not only the game, but a JP PS2.
For the most part of my WHM career, I was just like most people here. “JE” designation, meaning, I was considered “not JP” by the JP.
I did experience my share of discrimination, despite my use of Romaji.
Like when I was doing a teleport service, I’d read a JP shout in JP. I will invite them, and on occasion, as soon as I said “Ryoukin wa sakibarai ni narimasu” (Please pay first) they’d disband because they thought I was NA.
I would go hours without a PT invite despite my shining WHM job because I had “JE” designation.
So, instead of being friendly to my own fellow countrymen, I just decided to play “NA”. I won’t talk to them in PTs, I won’t even say hello. I even turned down invites out of spite on occasion - well, politely of course; “JP PT {No Thanks}” (really…I’ve done it a few times)
But as my real life got busier and busier, it became impossible for me to log on at NA peak time, and I found myself being the handful of “JE” amongst a sea of “J”s. So I started taking JP invites as well. I couldn't be a primadonna NA WHM.
Then slowly, I noticed something.
JP PT members remembered my performance as a WHM, and I would get repeat invites - night after night - from the same bunch of people. For example, one night a WAR from the night before will invite me. The next night, the PLD from three nights ago, etc. etc.
Despite my “JE” designation and my all English Search Comment, and my Cheap-Chic (Like Electrums instead of Astrals, NQ MND rings instead of HQ…)something was getting them to invite me.
It’s not for my Japanese abilities either. Most of these times, I’d speak in Auto-Translator only, because I had given up and got tired of explaining why I was playing on the NA system, even though I am Japanese, in hard to read, hard to type ROMAJI (Yeeek!)
It's because I did my job as a WHM right, played by their rules (like not replacing, etc.), stuck until they were done with PT, and minded my own business. I did not spam {English}{Please} if they chatted in Japanese, I Hasted an odd job if told, even though I thought was silly, and worked as a part of the EXP grind machine.
In fact, my NA NIN friend gets lots of repeat JP invites as well. ...so it's true. They do remember the good ones and just as such, they will remember the bad ones.
I eventually got over my “I hate my own kind” thing, and started to read more 2ch, more NA complaints on forums such as this, listen to complaints in LSs and for a long time, tried to figure this discrimination out.
Because it was very strange to me. Most Japanese like America. They have English blurbs in most Japanese pop songs. They like to wear Western designers, they love visiting America. To top it all of, even our animations and manga characters certainly resmemble Anglo-Saxon race.
So why don't we like "NA"s ... it's mostly the same thing - NA= North American. America! Don't we like all things American?
Earlier, I figured out that some of this had to do with initial player skill gap between the JPs that’s been playing for 2 years vs. NAs that just started playing, with minimal information as to how to play this complex game. Perhaps the general age gap (younger pre-teen, teenager players in NA, older players in JP) had something to do with it too.
Macros? Economy? Multiple kinds of armor for each level? Interaction with other players in a PT and your performance effecting the other five members? None of this ever existed in any previous FFs. Like me, there were lots of NAs that played such a complex MMORPGs for the first time in their lives.
But after this initial player skill/game knowledge gap narrowed, there are still complaints of JPs not liking NAs and NAs getting spiteful of JPs.
Why?
Here’s what I see as why: What NAs see as acceptable is not acceptable to JPs. And vice versa.
Currently I play on the PC, with a JP POL, which I bought about a year ago, when I went home on a holiday. It is a lot easier for me to speak/write JP than English afterall.
So - taking this into consideration - here are some things you might want to think about when PTing with JPs.
1) Inviting
When I get invites from a JP leader, the tell is like this:
”Hello~ This is a PT of JP WAR, RDM, NA NIN, 69-71. Would you like to join us for EXP PT?”
or if it’s a start up PT
”Hello~ I am BLM75. I’m trying to set up a EXP PT. Would you like to join me?”
When I get invites from a NA leader, the tell is like this:
”{Party}?” or “{Hello!}{Party}?”
Let’s try to use the auto-translator to make a bit more JPish invite:
”{Hello!}{Experience Points}{Party} NA PLD, WHM, JP SAM 69-71. {Team up}?”
”{Hello!}New {Party}. THF 22. {Team up}?”
I am not saying this is a sure fire way, but if you show that you have made an effort to communicate, customized just for the JP, you will win their hearts - and invite acceptance. Because the JPs will take note that you have done something very different from a typical NA person, and will appreciate it.
2) Getting Replacements
While this can be very efficient way to PT - PT as long as you want, or as short as you can - this is undoubtedly a VERY NA system. The only time JP PT might replace is if their single NA melee in an otherwise all JP PT has to go, after an hour of PT (because JPs tend to exp longer per session).
With replacements, while the NA person will think he’s done nothing wrong, perhaps think that he’s done the JP PT a favor by getting his own replacement, made sure the replacement was at camp before disbanding, even went the extra mile by finding a replacement that’s same job, same level, the JPs may be perplexed.
Why? Because what if the JP PT was going to go for an hour more? They will feel bad that now there is this brand new person that has traveled through many zones to get to camp, only to EXP for maybe an hour, even less?
When making replacements, I think most JP PTs will not mind that you do. However, it is imperative that you ask how long the PT is staying, if it will be worth it for the replacement.
“{Long time}{Party}? Get new WAR?”
So many times I get this: “zzzzzz {I’m sleepy}WAR otw {See you again!}” followed by a “D2plz”
…..While we understand simple words, like “get” and “new”, “otw” doesn’t make any sense.
I think until FFXI, most JP people in Japan never associated multiple “z”s as sleepy noise. I’m pretty sure because I recall a thread in 2ch trying to figure out what the hell “zzzzzz” meant.
Additionally, it is important that you try to find the job that will work in the PT - in terms of jobs and Skillchains. ….replacing a WHM with a BRD, replacing a RDM with a BLM, replacing a NIN with a WAR is just out-right silly.
There is a new wave of JPs that are indeed adapting to NA style. There are those that like NA PTs for their freedom to “leave whenever you want”. However, if it is a bad PT or slow PT, they don’t feel comfortable, making somebody else replace them. Because again, JPs remember each other well, and they don’t want to be reprimanded.
3) l337 Speak, Auto Speak
I have a relatively young (14 year old) person in my LS. He uses this 1337 speak and even with my command of English, I cannot understand.
“u need 2 4 dat”
I think I got this reply when I asked how many something I needed for a synth. After staring at it for a few minutes, I concluded I needed 24 of them. So I asked “2 stacks?” ….I was quickly corrected by other LS members. Since then, he’s slowly learning to type real English….
Please please please use auto-translator to its fullest extent, and where it is not available, use real words. Also, creative use of Auto-Translator doesn’t work…
{Reward} = a command used for BST when feeding pets, will come out as "itawaru" which is more of a verb used when caring for a sick/hurt person.
{May}{bee} = comes out as the {5th month}{bumble bee} ---After switching to JP POL, it took me a good few weeks to figure this one out.
{Back} = comes out as {backside} - use {I’m back!} instead please…
{Pull back} = used in many NA pull macros, but says, {retreat a little} in Japanese.
JPs do like “lol” and “OMG”. I’ve actually seen “lol” and “OMG” used a few times in all JP PTs. Infact I've seen “lololololol” used often - the more the better!
4) When in Rome, do as Romans do.
While I know many NAs will not like to hear this, but when you are in a all JP PT, or when you are inviting more than 4 JPs, try to adapt to the JP style.
- If you are leader, don’t ask where the PT should go. (Some JP leaders do this, and get ignored)
- If you are leader, heaven forbid, don’t replace yourself.
- Don’t “fake a DC” or leave PT as soon as you level.
- Do believe that chaining 140 per kill EXP mobs are better than spending all your MP, all your HP and possibly a two hour ability for 240 per kill EXP is better.
- Do defer to the leader. In a JP PT, the leader does all he/she can do for best EXP. So if you are in Qufim, and he says let’s move, do follow, no matter how good the Worms are around the ice pond. ….he’s probably thinking about Vana-time and the Bogies.
5) Search Comments
Very very important for JPs. There was a whole thread about how to write a good search comment in 2ch. While some of the 2ch stuff is garbage elitism and idiotic, I was surprised to find that I got far more invites when I removed what I thought was cute, "Ganbarimasu" from search comment, as mentioned in 2ch. You see, even amongst JPs, if your search comment is not up to par - like if you put in "Ganbarimasu" - "I'll try my best" they won't invite you. (Because they want you to obviously do that).
But I think good Search Comments are very important for both JP and NA PT leaders.
Here’re some examples:
Butchman (62MNK/31WAR)
@17800 HP: Jueno
/WAR, /THF, /NIN
{Sky}{Sea} O Black Belt O
Basically:
1st line your exp to next level, maybe Home Point location, your ability to OP if your Home Point is not in Jeuno (like OP OK).
2nd line put in your appropriate subjobs, or your weapon of choice if you are a job that uses multiple weapons (WAR, DRK).
3rd line put in areas you can go as appropriate - like don’t put {Sky}{Sea}{Moon} leveling your Nth job in the Dunes. Also, add some comments as appropriate.
Very standard, and no harm done. When you get your final WS, you might want to add that somewhere too.
But something like this, I see lots in NA search comments:
Madmage (70RDM/35BLM)
HQ {Staff} x 8, Melon Pie+1
Snow Ring x2, HQ MND Ring x2
Serket Ring, Tamas Ring O
So what. Can you sub WHM? Do you mind being main healer in NIN PT? It doesn’t tell me anything I want to know.
I think keeping it simple, with the necessary information is better.
But still…unfortunately, this is the order a JP PT will pick:
a) Seek “J” designation job and appropriate levels
b) Then “JE” designation with appropriate levels with Search Comments
c) Then “E” designation with appropriate levels with Search Comments
d) Then JE or E designation with no search comments
When seeking “J”, they will search up to 4 level discrepancies, even if there is a 1 or no level discrepancy “JE” or “E”.
I have been a victim of this, and was invited to a PT where everybody 4 levels higher than myself. Needless to say, I was not happy, and told them I suddenly had something else to do and replaced myself with a equivalent level NA.
I hope that some of this gave you an insight, a point of view, if anything regarding JPs, and how they work.
Again, I am not saying JP is better or NA is better. This is just meant to be a little bit of information that might come in handy…if you keep it in the corner of your thoughts next time you seek during JP prime time, or invite a JP person.
And just to finish off, there are many many high level JPs that prefer to Merit, EXP with high level NAs thatn JPs. Why? Because most high level NAs are in HNMLS of some sorts, have what we call 'Haijin Gear', and generally output crazier damage numbers. Like a JP KRT MNK PT will prefer: JP BRD (puller) JP RDM (dispeller) NA WHM, NA MNKx3.
It's all good in the end?
