To be summed up and exiled

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Helius

Artifact Armor
Adventurer
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
977
Age
37
Location
Tampa, FL
Main Job
DarkKnight-Male
Server
Quetzalcoatl
Linkshell
Oath
To sum this up for those who would possibly want their time back, this is my voice about being judged by those who have no right and are wrong. The reasons why will be stated below.

Some of you may know I have recently attained level seventy five on the game. After years of finally getting my ass in gear, it’s been accomplished. During that time of playing, I have had my good times, and the real shitty ones. A few spots on the flame board, and a couple other posts here and there. My reputation with this server has be quite low, and placed too low for how much as changed via personal life. Over four years, someone can change, and I myself feel I have amongst others who interact with me on a near weekly basis at least. I don’t turn down the fact I may not be the most well skilled player in this game, nor most acknowledged. Though this game doesn’t’ need to be played daily or bi-daily to understand the mechanics and fundamentals of it either. I know I’m net the most well equipped player or most well known, though that shouldn’t decide my intelligence as a person or motive.

I have recently done an Einherjar run with a linkshell that was put together and testing their skill to see what changes would have to be made to surpass the requirements to succeed at the event. This linkshell allowed me to join and I was grateful. We gathered up parties and I was in an outer alliance party and was grouped with a party that as a whole, was on an average scale, if not a bit higher. We cleared all the monsters pretty well besides a repeated persons death, which was understandable. The run proceeded and we then were face to face with the boss Himinrjot. The fight from what I saw, could have been much better if things went how they could of, and should of. No on gathered together in the corner to keep hate focus in one area, nor to avoid the blow back from the cone attack. People were spread out throughout the wall, and hate kept getting bounced since it’s the way the fight worked. People ignored all linkshell chat after the command to group together was spammed repeatedly by the captains, and then I followed suite when no one was doing it. It became very aggravating and annoying that something so easy could not be acted upon.

After the fight had ended and everyone was ported outside and raised, myself included. I received a warp two and headed to my moghouse tail between my legs. After a few moments, I had a light bulb turn on and I went typing away on the forums for the linkshell. The shell had be around for ample time to put together what I had done. I had posted two separate threads for both days the shell ran. It was a “Critiquing” thread for the shell to analyze, post, and comprehend. It simply listed what went wrong, how it could be fixed, and what was fine with the run. Nothing posted by me or anyone else, was a direct attack to any single member of the shell. It was just my way of helping the linkshell improve and become more successful. A select few of the members posted, a captain and leader as well. I edited the original post that contained the three separate lists and edited them with what the members had informed me of. I left the day I didn’t attend blank, but still with the format of critiquing.

After the posts had been made. I kept rechecking the posts to see if anyone had more input on the matter. I came to find the post for Tuesday deleted, and asked myself why that would happen. I first thought it was because only one post was really needed, which in a sense is accurate but then could cause confusion. So I proceeded to inquire asking why it was gone by making a “General Chat” thread for any updates members may need to post, or insight on fights, etc. I then received word via private message from the leader containing the follow. (Names removed because this thread isn’t just for them.)

LS Leader said:
Ok look, you need to stop all this thread making and trying to be a leader. You've been to one run, and don't really know much about Einherjar anyway. People are starting to really get upset, myself included, and if it doesn't stop soon then we'll have to remove you from the shell. We appreciate the help, but [Removed], [Removed], [Remove], and myself have things under control. I'll probably delete your threads and remake them myself, its just something a leader needs to put up there.

Hopefully you won't take this too harshly, and you'll understand what I mean by this.

I understand how that would come across being a leader. I one hundred percent agree it’s what a leader should post. I may seemed to have denied that when speaking with the leader. If a leader should have done it, why didn’t they? And if they were planning too (Was informed they had intentions to do so.) why wasn’t it done already? I didn’t know trying to help wasn’t allowed unless you’re a leader, nor did I realize that me only running Einherjar once, made me incapable of interpreting what went wrong and why, after I put two and two together, and then read up on how to defeat the boss, post-fight. If they did have things under control, the post would have already been made and the members they were commanding during the fight, would have obeyed and done what was necessary to succeed. This as stated, did not happen. We did get close, but the lack of obedience is what had defeated the shell that night.

After reading the message from the leader, I approached them in game and after sharing my peace and reasons as to why my actions were made to post the threads mentioned. I was informed that not only the captains of the shell were upset, but so were the members. They quoted comments given by members, and the following are the ones that stuck in my head.

(All quotes are not word for word but aren’t altered from their original intention.)

“He just hit seventy five and is trying to get in to so much endgame, I wouldn’t be surprised if the miss scheduled”

I may have just hit seventy five, but that does not mean I can’t manage my time. I currently attend college and in order to succeed at that, you do need to understand time management and abide by it ninety nine point nine percent of the time. So if you can prove to me how just hitting seventy five would deter my skill of time management. I will admit my wrong and incompetence.

“Who the hell does he think he is coming in and trying to take over like that?”

I didn’t think I was trying to take over. I was simply helping everyone out. If you’re so blind to that, maybe that’s why you aren’t a leader and but a mere follower? Does making a thread that can easily be managed and corrected of mistakes mean I’m trying to take over? If so, I would like to see how. I never intended it to be like that, nor did I state it like that once. I don’t see how me merely running that event once, means I can’t use common sense and put two and two together to get the answer of four. Just because I lack the time spent and full knowledge attained via this game, doesn’t mean I can’t take my real life experiences and teachings into this game. You can learn time management via end game in this game, or you can learn it from college, as I have.

Me making the move a leader should, to only get harassed by the leaders of the shell, is not a sign of leader ship on their parts at all. A true leader, would of seen the work and commitment I had made to raise the success of the linkshell to get desired accomplishments for those people. My act was not selfish in any way, and if you can show me where. I will admit the wrong in that too. Though a true leader would of seen the act I made that was clearly notified as a leadership move, and inquired about seeing what else I could offer. Not harassing me and punishing me for doing something right. It was simply felt to me, that the leaders of the shell felt embarrassed and humiliated that a mere un known player with mediocre gear did something above and beyond that simply put them at aw of the situation. That they simply felt inferior and then stood in question of what to do. Then the only logical idea was to gang up on this person to get rid of them so they can take their pride back in what they would claim as theirs.

You say my act of making those threads was the role of a leader, then why didn’t you see that and see I have more to offer then just a character who’s gear is a shade of gray? Instead you found it necessary to slander me and turn it against me.

With that being said, this was just the powder keg that had finally set the rest off and influenced me to post. With the over all meaning that I’m sick of being judged by what the character you see in the game to be. Rather then what the person controlling it has to offer the community. I wanted nothing but success for that linkshell. I can prove that because I myself wanted to reach Odin to eventually obtain an Adaman Hauberk for my character. I simply call, cry, yell, scream, boast, request, to be seen differently then that of what I was earlier in my time on this game. To now be seen as someone who can obey, produce, and over achieve that of which is requested of me by friends, strangers, leaders, and followers. I know everyone hates to be judged, but most of those people, are the most judgmental people of them all. I myself catch myself labeling people and summing them up. I do catch myself from time to time and shun myself for it, and apologize to those who do hear my thoughts of them when I had no right to think them.

You can slander me, laugh at me, ignore me, or even get rid of me entirely. Though those who do see this post and reconsider their thoughts about me. I thank you for seeing my intentions and hope we can start fresh. I don’t demand apologies from the members of the shell I was in. Nor do I expect them. Though what I do expect, is hopefully a shot at a second chance. If that fails, the so be it, and I hope maybe one day. You’ll come to a crossroad in your life, and think back maybe to this situation, or another in your life that has come or on it’s way. That you’ll resist the temptation to sum up someone by their clothes, or looks, or faults. Then to see them and get to know them before you conclude weather or not it’s even worth getting into. I just hope people can see the reasoning and thought behind this thread.
 
When you flame people, you really should keep the names intact. Otherwise it sort of defeats the purpose of flaming someone.
 
Leaders: Miros, Justinp

Einherjar Shell: Glowsticks

Response coming up. ;o
 
then why didn’t you see that and see I have more to offer then just a character who’s gear is a shade of gray?

I see a bad Twillight cosplayer.

Tyrath, shut up.

Ps Helius: You removed yourself.
 
I was targeting more then just those people. So even if their names were mentioned. Countless others wouldn't of. Those people unnamed will hopefully know who they are. If they choose to be blind to it. Like I said. So be it. I haven't touched this section of the forum in (almost) two years. There have been numerous events I have considered making public but in the end, reconsidered. This one event though, was the last push. So I felt it should be made known that people are still judging me for what I was, and not what I am today. It's very frustrating.
 
Flaming a shell that you want a second chance in is always a smashing good idea
 
I see a bad Twillight cosplayer.

Tyrath, shut up.

Ps Helius: You removed yourself.

I removed myself after I was harshly judged and slandered for doing something polite. Why would I put up with that? It's insane and stupid to be someplace I'm clearly not wanted.
 
I see a bad Twillight cosplayer. You joined a shell that had just started not to long ago, and tried to get JP to make you a leader.
oh yeah and Helius m'boy, You removed yourself.
 
I see a bad Twillight cosplayer. You joined a shell that had just started not to long ago, and tried to get JP to make you a leader.
oh yeah and Helius m'boy, You removed yourself.
wow what the shit :awesome: I dont know how to use qcdn apparently
 
Flaming a shell that you want a second chance in is always a smashing good idea

I flamed a shell that wasn't publicly made known of. They themselves chose to be target by naming who they are. That's their choice to do so. As I said. So be it if they choose not. I just hope they'll maybe, have the slightest chance to better themselves in some way for this. They could have just as easily seen my reasoning behind the actions I took and reconsidered them to see it was for the best and not to step on someones shoes. They chose the other route.
 
I see a bad Twillight cosplayer. You joined a shell that had just started not to long ago, and tried to get JP to make you a leader.
oh yeah and Helius m'boy, You removed yourself.

I didn't try to do anything but better the shell. I told him why not make me a leader after he claimed my actions were that of a leader, how is that wrong or unjustified? And I did state that the shell didn't start to long ago, but I did it by saying they had ample time to do what I had stepped up and done.
 
Helius, this could have all been done in a private message, you failed to name any names and want a second chance, so why not PM this to the leaders, instead of bringing it here?

I am/was part of glowsticks and saw what you posted, sure it was good. Was it your place? hell no...you could have PM'd any of the leaders and said "hey, I have this idea etc etc" and they would have probably responded by making a post and then crediting you for the information you provided.

Glowsticks is still a new shell (a month old if anything) so trial and error will be used and the group is a new group so they'll think up things and post them. I personally think you were just trying to get a better reputation amongst that shell because you have that whole "people hate me" in the back of your mind....heck if they let you join then you're obviously not hated...otherwise they would have given you a simple "no" when you asked to join.

This flame could have been avoided if you had just messaged leaders but you chose to bring it to the flameboard....so I don't think you want a second chance...you just want some people to sympathise with you, it's quite sad really.
 
Tyrath, shut up.

Well that was uncalled for. I have one for you, fuck off random person I don't know.

Its dumb making a flame if he wasn't even gonna tell us who the hell he was talking about. Now that it has come to light, they can go argue to infinity.
 
Helius, this could have all been done in a private message, you failed to name any names and want a second chance, so why not PM this to the leaders, instead of bringing it here?

I am/was part of glowsticks and saw what you posted, sure it was good. Was it your place? hell no...you could have PM'd any of the leaders and said "hey, I have this idea etc etc" and they would have probably responded by making a post and then crediting you for the information you provided.

Glowsticks is still a new shell (a month old if anything) so trial and error will be used and the group is a new group so they'll think up things and post them. I personally think you were just trying to get a better reputation amongst that shell because you have that whole "people hate me" in the back of your mind....heck if they let you join then you're obviously not hated...otherwise they would have given you a simple "no" when you asked to join.

This flame could have been avoided if you had just messaged leaders but you chose to bring it to the flameboard....so I don't think you want a second chance...you just want some people to sympathise with you, it's quite sad really.

I did go to the leader of the shell and discuss this. Though nothing was getting through to either him, or his messages to me. So it was useless. Plus, I made mention, this wasn't just targeting them. I was targeting those who judge me because back in the day, I wasn't the most amazing player. I'm still not, but I've come a decent ways to know what to do, what to learn, what not to do again. Yet people still take me as the have. They have also judged me for actions that could of been handled differently sure, though I'm a doer. When I see something that should get done and it's not. I do it. So I took a step and posted the threads. They got deleted, I gut frustrated, figured out the reasons, and it was because they took it the wrong way. So after dealing with being judged for so long. I grew tired of it.
 
You were brand new to a shell with minimal knowledge of the event in general and you took it upon yourself to post strategy discussion on their site? Then you suggested they make you a leader?

I don't know why you're upset about the way they reacted. In most shells, they're not going to take kindly to someone waltzing in, especially someone without the knowledge and experience to back up such statements, and trying to tell them what they're doing wrong and how they can fix it. And they definitely aren't going to be receptive to someone who is brand new suggesting they get promoted to a leader, unless they have some expertise to bring to the table, and even then, it's a stretch. It's unjustified because it's like walking into a company you started working at yesterday and suggesting they promote you. It doesn't make any sense. And it wouldn't even if you'd done said job for 5 years at your last employer.

The shell you're talking about is a very new shell. So you ask "why wasn't it there already?" Maybe because the leaders wanted to get some runs under their belts before posting strategies for their whole shell to follow. The bottom line is... you were brand new to their shell. And frankly it's not your place to take those liberties on their website. Had you discussed it with a leader first, maybe the outcome would have been different.
 
The problem here is your attitude.

You have no idea how to be a member of an endgame shell. An endgame shell doesn't work if there are 'too many chiefs, not enough indians'. This does not mean that ANYBODY who is a member of a shell is just a follower. The fact that you refer to anyone who doesn't argue with the leaders as just a 'sheep' of a member is rather fucking insulting for anyone has done end game. People who are in any type of shell that does an event know they have to swallow their pride and listen to their leaders. Sometimes this causes drama, but to make a LS work as a team, they have to respect those who lead it, and those who lead it have to respect their members.

If you don't like how the shell is being lead or functioning, leave (I guess you already did, lawl).

You keep going on about how you feel its unfair that people are judging you because you're a new 75. Well, it IS because you're a new 75 and you're fucking god damn cocky. You've never done any end game until recently, and now you're coming on with this attitude that you can figure out anything in the game now. It doesn't work like that. Get some notches in your end game belt first, then maybe people will take you seriously. You just had your first Dynamis this week. This is almost as bad as someone who has NEVER done any kind of end game trying to give advice on how to do it.

You're also forgetting that this is a new shell with a few members who have never done a lot of Einherjar. You didn't even take into account that most people had never fought this boss before.

Yeah, it sucks when you lose a run. But that's how you get better. You can read anything you want on FFXI wiki, but that's other people's experiences. It doesn't mean it'll work out for you, and you need to experience it before you actually know what you're facing. I once read on FFXI wiki that a PLD/WAR could solo a NM for a WotG mission. I went and tried it, and it didn't work for me. Just because you read up on a strategy doesn't mean it'll work.

I will agree, the run was annoying because yeah, some people weren't listening. But Miros and JP don't need a third person who is neither a leader not a sackholder giving out commands to confuse people.

You need to put more faith in your leaders if you want to be successful in any endgame shell. I know some people will come out and say "well soandso Ls sucks because of the leaders suck'. Yeah, I know they're out there, but a LS with bad leaders never sticks around, so I'm not too worried about my statement.

Humble yourself and stop being so fucking arrogant for someone who just got 75 and I'm sure you'll be fine.
 
You were brand new to a shell with minimal knowledge of the event in general and you took it upon yourself to post strategy discussion on their site? Then you suggested they make you a leader?

I don't know why you're upset about the way they reacted. In most shells, they're not going to take kindly to someone waltzing in, especially someone without the knowledge and experience to back up such statements, and trying to tell them what they're doing wrong and how they can fix it. And they definitely aren't going to be receptive to someone who is brand new suggesting they get promoted to a leader, unless they have some expertise to bring to the table, and even then, it's a stretch. It's unjustified because it's like walking into a company you started working at yesterday and suggesting they promote you. It doesn't make any sense. And it wouldn't even if you'd done said job for 5 years at your last employer.

The shell you're talking about is a very new shell. So you ask "why wasn't it there already?" Maybe because the leaders wanted to get some runs under their belts before posting strategies for their whole shell to follow. The bottom line is... you were brand new to their shell. And frankly it's not your place to take those liberties on their website. Had you discussed it with a leader first, maybe the outcome would have been different.

I didn't just waltz in demanding to be a leader. The knowledge I suggested to be corrected could of been seen by ANYONE. It's not hard to see why the fight failed when the commands were being give and no one followed but a select few. I only suggested leadership after I was told the actions I took were the qualities of a leader.

Also, to do eight runs, (One month as mentioned) and not understand why you're failing those eight runs, and not posting that. Is frankly 'off'. So I came along and did a run, noticed what happened. Then everything hits the fan and I get harassed for stating something a leader would. How does that make me un experienced when a leader themself, said it's what a leader should do?

Also, everyone seems to be taking this as a direct flame towards the shell. Sure they sum up the majority of the post, though my intent was to target those who judge. This could be seen as by reading the title, and the last couple paragraphs of the thread.

And to walk into a company and do something someone above me in leadership should have done. Should send a message to the boss and say "Hey, this guy went above the normal and isn't afraid to stand up." To show signs of leadership in work, is a good thing actually.
 
All this because you weren't made a leader? Really? You could have done the same thing as a leader as a member. Leader is just a useless title.
 
if you think your suggestion can be seen by anyone, then the leaders probably saw it already. so they dont need you to go make a post to tell them what to do.

if you are new to the LS, just stay quiet, no one want to hear a new guy telling them what to do
 
Humble yourself and stop being so fucking arrogant for someone who just got 75 and I'm sure you'll be fine.

There is a fine line between arrogance and boldness.

Faith would help, yes. Though a leader must also have faith in it's followers. If that doesn't happen, then things could eventually lead to mutiny.

I do see to an extent how just hitting seventy five then critiquing a run would come across as arrogance, but I did the run and died during, just like everyone else. Though the leaders of that shell HAVE done endgame for quite some time. So they should know what is required of them before they even start the shell. (Speaking of a critiquing method of how to improve since they themselves know they were knew to the event.)

Your points made are heard, and understood, and taken into consideration. Slaps in the face are sometimes needed.

I was ready to take the fall, and I know this because I'm getting things out of this and understanding where things said, are coming from. Yet to be singled out by an act of leadership qualities and actions, wasn't needed either since the proceedings to the events gave light to walk the path I took.
 
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