Treasure Coffers, Priorities...

[yanzi]

How is it more greedy to pop a coffer when someone's around than when no one's around? If you know that they are looking for AF, that's one thing, but if you have no idea, greed is moot. Since he didn't know their intentions, they might have wanted it for money, if they even wanted it at all. Since they weren't making a visible effort to get the coffer, they lost all claim on it and anyone who was there could take it, fair game.

he only didn't know because he didn't TRY to know. ok, if he doesn't know how to use /sea, i'll excuse him. :lol:

 

[Pompidou]

Let's not put NA's or JP's on any moral pedastle here. NA's can be selfish and JP's can be selfish. For that matter, EU's can be selfish. People who think all NA's are selfish would think so whether Sneaky took the coffer or not. JP's aren't entirely selfless bringers of light and world peace that would rather give all they have rather than let one other player miss out on a gil. NA's open treasure coffers. JP's open treasure coffers. Whether Sneaky openned a coffer will have no effect on any latent racism inherent in a minority of the population. That other party wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and that's not going to happen.

 

[asanarama]

This reminds me of using throws in Street Fighter II. Ever play with some people who thought you shouldn't use them? "That's cheap man. No throws." Maybe, but on the other hand, they put them in the game.

It also reminds me of the idea of free will. If they wanted to, SE could have made the game fairer, but then it'd be less fun to play. Instead, people have the opportunity to be nice, or to be mean. I'm not saying what you did was wrong, but "SE gave me the ability to pick them" doesn't necessarily mean you should.

If I saw a group fighting all the leeches at the same time and the coffer was just sitting there, I doubt I would have given it much thought. I would have opened it. Later on though, I might have wondered if maybe someone in the PT was waiting for a good moment to drop invis to avoid Yaggro while opening the coffer (if there were any Yags around).

 

[Sneakypants]

well, let's see, for the coffer you popped to piss off people, i didn't pop 1 coffer to not piss off people. so i guess NA are back to status quo.
your excuse/story is weak, and only a weak justification for your greedy actions.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Sethala]

Yanzi, have you ever gone shopping in Wal-Mart (or any store, really, I just picked Wal-Mart because I work there >.> ) when it's been mildly busy? There's lines, and it's all first-come, first-serve.

So when you get to the checkout lane, you get in line and wait your turn. If someone got there before you, they get priority.

But what if they're just standing around when it's their turn and not doing anything? If someone's just standing around like that and not showing any interest in checking out, then of course I'm gonna move ahead of them and check out first. Yes, it's not my turn. But as far as I know, they're not gonna take their turn any time soon, so I'm gonna check out now.

Now, honestly: tell me what you would do in that situation. The person ahead of you is standing around doing nothing, you're waiting to check out, do you wait for the person ahead of you to make up their mind and either check out or move away, or do you get in front of them?

What's this got to do with anything? Let me paraphrase those last few paragraphs...

(Bold words are changed)

So when you get to the coffer spawn, you get in line and wait your turn. If someone got there before you, they get priority.

But what if they're just standing around when it's their turn and not doing anything? If someone's just standing around like that and not showing any interest in opening the coffer, then of course I'm gonna move ahead of them and open it first. Yes, it's not my turn. But as far as I know, they're not gonna take their turn any time soon, so I'm gonna open it now.

Now, honestly: tell me what you would do in that situation. The person ahead of you is standing around doing nothing, you're waiting to open the coffer, do you wait for the person ahead of you to make up their mind and either open it or move away, or do you open it in front of them?

 

[yanzi]

Yanzi, have you ever gone shopping in Wal-Mart (or any store, really, I just picked Wal-Mart because I work there >.> ) when it's been mildly busy? There's lines, and it's all first-come, first-serve.

So when you get to the checkout lane, you get in line and wait your turn. If someone got there before you, they get priority.

But what if they're just standing around when it's their turn and not doing anything? If someone's just standing around like that and not showing any interest in checking out, then of course I'm gonna move ahead of them and check out first. Yes, it's not my turn. But as far as I know, they're not gonna take their turn any time soon, so I'm gonna check out now.

Now, honestly: tell me what you would do in that situation. The person ahead of you is standing around doing nothing, you're waiting to check out, do you wait for the person ahead of you to make up their mind and either check out or move away, or do you get in front of them?

What's this got to do with anything? Let me paraphrase those last few paragraphs...

i politely ask them if they are going to check out. it's not difficult.

 

[Sneakypants]

Yanzi, have you ever gone shopping in Wal-Mart (or any store, really, I just picked Wal-Mart because I work there >.> ) when it's been mildly busy? There's lines, and it's all first-come, first-serve.

So when you get to the checkout lane, you get in line and wait your turn. If someone got there before you, they get priority.

But what if they're just standing around when it's their turn and not doing anything? If someone's just standing around like that and not showing any interest in checking out, then of course I'm gonna move ahead of them and check out first. Yes, it's not my turn. But as far as I know, they're not gonna take their turn any time soon, so I'm gonna check out now.

Now, honestly: tell me what you would do in that situation. The person ahead of you is standing around doing nothing, you're waiting to check out, do you wait for the person ahead of you to make up their mind and either check out or move away, or do you get in front of them?

What's this got to do with anything? Let me paraphrase those last few paragraphs...

i politely ask them if they are going to check out. it's not difficult.

Every time too, I bet. Steady Eddie. Even Steven.


...Mr. Perfect, everybody!
Congratulations on all your success. You smell terriffic.

 

[Halifirien]

Besides, what kind of crazy Bizarro World would we be living in if thieves weren't expect to steal?

 

[Genjuro]

C'mon, coffers aren't that hard to find. Approach the situation with some intensity, and you'll have one within a few hours. (And THFs have it especially easy.) To some extent you've got to assume everyone is a greedy bastard, or you will get burned sooner or later. But that's just part of the fun.


~Genjuro

 

[Panda]

If i saw them standing there fighting leeches before they popped it then I would have taken it also. I don't undersand why one person wouldn't have just run over and popped the coffer while the other person held out on the leeches for awhile then they could both go back to kill. I mean seriously, it is a COFFER. It just seems like common sense to me to take care of the item at hand before you do anything.

I have learned in this game that as a few of you said here, NOTHING is yours until it is in your inventory. That coffer was unpopped and no one was popping it. I have also learned that coffer hunting is onen of the things in this game that is no holds barred.. you never assume that that coffer is going to stay there or that no one is going to come along and pop it before you.. always assume that there are mad people going after it so as soon as you see it freaking pop it.. sometimes there is a price to pay.. but thats what part of coffer hunting is..

I would have done it too Sneaky.. I mean honestly if they didn't move for it its their own fault.. As far as asking them if that was their coffer or if they needed it or whatever, thats kind of BS to me.. No one is gonna run through Valkurm and camp empy and then once he pops ask the kid next to them if he needs the pin because you're just going to sell it..

Some of you have higher morals in this game and thats fine.. but you're also the people who are going to get pwned by people like Sneaky.. And yanzi your JP/NA argument is so assinine.. everyone in this game tries to run over everyone else's toes at one point - keep your predjiduce out of an argument that has NOTHING to do with nationality or culture.

 

[Jagster]

The JP thief was a moron for not spending 10 seconds to open coffer while his friends easily handled leeches, and then got back to helping. And yagudo don't aggro things in the middle of the pond, they never get close and hang on the edges and don't even look inward much. It's really not an issue avoiding aggro in the pond center if the leeches are occupied.

And after the tells you received, I wouldn't be surprised if this rank 10 JP was one of those ones with a HNM bot program helping the other JP in making those damn things spawn purple, and MPKing anyone that actually beats them to claim.

It's like farming in zitai(sp), you have to claim with stun,voke,ranged attacks. If you want to get greedy and use sneak attack and claim that way, you're going to get a goob stolen millions of times normally. The ONLY time I'm courtious in there somewhat is when me and someone have a friendly /t conversation, I met a few friends that way. But before that occurs I have to be alert and ready.

 

[yanzi]

I would have done it too Sneaky.. I mean honestly if they didn't move for it its their own fault.. As far as asking them if that was their coffer or if they needed it or whatever, thats kind of BS to me.. No one is gonna run through Valkurm and camp empy and then once he pops ask the kid next to them if he needs the pin because you're just going to sell it..

his AF versus a few K in sneaky's pocket, you can't compare to camping VE.
ask yourself this, whenever you help a friend get something /ex, it's the same thing. you get nothing from it while it helps that person. just because you weren't in the same party with someone popping a coffer doesn't mean you couldn't show any compassion. why do you even bother to help anyone if you're not getting anything in return?

Some of you have higher morals in this game and thats fine.. but you're also the people who are going to get pwned by people like Sneaky.. And yanzi your JP/NA argument is so assinine.. everyone in this game tries to run over everyone else's toes at one point - keep your predjiduce out of an argument that has NOTHING to do with nationality or culture.

i don't have to make up the JP/NA argument. it seems the majority of NA here feel it's right to just grab the coffer. i've seen JP who help each other out with coffers. 'nuff said.

 

[yanzi]

The JP thief was a moron for not spending 10 seconds to open coffer while his friends easily handled leeches, and then got back to helping. And yagudo don't aggro things in the middle of the pond, they never get close and hang on the edges and don't even look inward much. It's really not an issue avoiding aggro in the pond center if the leeches are occupied.

perhaps it would be rude of him to just grab it while his helpers are busy fighting. he might as also not have been expecting greedy people to happen by.

And after the tells you received, I wouldn't be surprised if this rank 10 JP was one of those ones with a HNM bot program helping the other JP in making those damn things spawn purple, and MPKing anyone that actually beats them to claim.

right... all rank 10 JP are HNM botters...

It's like farming in zitai(sp), you have to claim with stun,voke,ranged attacks. If you want to get greedy and use sneak attack and claim that way, you're going to get a goob stolen millions of times normally. The ONLY time I'm courtious in there somewhat is when me and someone have a friendly /t conversation, I met a few friends that way. But before that occurs I have to be alert and ready.

for all you people trying to compare farming or NMs with this, stop. the thf cannot resell his AF and it benefits no one but himself. it's ridiculous to compare his AF with farming or NMs.

 

[Sneakypants]

I would have done it too Sneaky.. I mean honestly if they didn't move for it its their own fault.. As far as asking them if that was their coffer or if they needed it or whatever, thats kind of BS to me.. No one is gonna run through Valkurm and camp empy and then once he pops ask the kid next to them if he needs the pin because you're just going to sell it..

his AF versus a few K in sneaky's pocket, you can't compare to camping VE.
ask yourself this, whenever you help a friend get something /ex, it's the same thing. you get nothing from it while it helps that person. just because you weren't in the same party with someone popping a coffer doesn't mean you couldn't show any compassion. why do you even bother to help anyone if you're not getting anything in return?

Some of you have higher morals in this game and thats fine.. but you're also the people who are going to get pwned by people like Sneaky.. And yanzi your JP/NA argument is so assinine.. everyone in this game tries to run over everyone else's toes at one point - keep your predjiduce out of an argument that has NOTHING to do with nationality or culture.

i don't have to make up the JP/NA argument. it seems the majority of NA here feel it's right to just grab the coffer. i've seen JP who help each other out with coffers. 'nuff said.

Well it's an example that works considering what I have been trying to discuss has nothing to do with what's inside the coffer for any given individual.

As I said, it's not my concern to ask them what they are doing when I am just there to farm and pick coffers. I do it all the time, without incident.

This time it was a problem because they really wanted what was in that coffer, unbeknownst to me. What you need to understand is that it's not my responsibility or concern to ask them what they are doing. I gave them time to pop it, as they were clearly at the coffer location, they did not, and I popped it for myself.

If I was concerned with getting what was in that coffer, I would:
A) Pop the coffer ASAP
B) Maybe send /tells to others in the area

They were the ones with reason to be concerned. Not me.

Had they made it known they were there for AF, I would have gladly stepped aside. As mentioned, after their rude tells, I wouldn't have grabbed the next one. I would have been happy to send a tell to them saying <t> <found it!> <pos>, even after their rudeness. That's as lucky as they'll get. As far as them needing what's in it, they could have and should have taken measures to ensure getting the contents of the coffer.

I do what I do. I gave others time to do what they do. If they choose inaction, that kind of sucks for them...You call it greed. I call it not sitting on my pompous ass expecting things to fall in my lap.

 

[Sneakypants]

The JP thief was a moron for not spending 10 seconds to open coffer while his friends easily handled leeches, and then got back to helping. And yagudo don't aggro things in the middle of the pond, they never get close and hang on the edges and don't even look inward much. It's really not an issue avoiding aggro in the pond center if the leeches are occupied.

perhaps it would be rude of him to just grab it while his helpers are busy fighting. he might as also not have been expecting greedy people to happen by.

And after the tells you received, I wouldn't be surprised if this rank 10 JP was one of those ones with a HNM bot program helping the other JP in making those damn things spawn purple, and MPKing anyone that actually beats them to claim.

right... all rank 10 JP are HNM botters...

It's like farming in zitai(sp), you have to claim with stun,voke,ranged attacks. If you want to get greedy and use sneak attack and claim that way, you're going to get a goob stolen millions of times normally. The ONLY time I'm courtious in there somewhat is when me and someone have a friendly /t conversation, I met a few friends that way. But before that occurs I have to be alert and ready.

for all you people trying to compare farming or NMs with this, stop. the thf cannot resell his AF and it benefits no one but himself. it's ridiculous to compare his AF with farming or NMs.

You are asking people to stop making ridiculous comparisons. I suggest you take your own advice.

How is categorizing rank 10 JPs worse than the categorizations made on your part?

Bottom line: Those people didn't treat that coffer like it was important to them. I did, and was rewarded. If I was after my AF, I wouldn't have given them 15 seconds to think about it. <that's too bad> for them.
Each coffer they camp on top of isn't gift wrapped for them, or anyone.

It IS like farming certain MOBs and camping NMs. Quickest draw gets the prize. If you don't have that mentality, you don't want it bad enough, will get eaten alive by others looking to accomplish the same task, don't have any room to bitch, or all of the above.

 

[Seawolf]

Sneaky, you said you gave them 15 seconds. Maybe those 15 secs while you weren't doing anything gave them the impression that you weren't after the coffer, so they took their time?

Just a thought.

 

[Bajaratt]

I would have done it too Sneaky.. I mean honestly if they didn't move for it its their own fault.. As far as asking them if that was their coffer or if they needed it or whatever, thats kind of BS to me.. No one is gonna run through Valkurm and camp empy and then once he pops ask the kid next to them if he needs the pin because you're just going to sell it..

his AF versus a few K in sneaky's pocket, you can't compare to camping VE.
ask yourself this, whenever you help a friend get something /ex, it's the same thing. you get nothing from it while it helps that person. just because you weren't in the same party with someone popping a coffer doesn't mean you couldn't show any compassion. why do you even bother to help anyone if you're not getting anything in return?

Some of you have higher morals in this game and thats fine.. but you're also the people who are going to get pwned by people like Sneaky.. And yanzi your JP/NA argument is so assinine.. everyone in this game tries to run over everyone else's toes at one point - keep your predjiduce out of an argument that has NOTHING to do with nationality or culture.

i don't have to make up the JP/NA argument. it seems the majority of NA here feel it's right to just grab the coffer. i've seen JP who help each other out with coffers. 'nuff said.

You're saying this like no NA ever helps out anyone else. I've been in 6 linkshells that all helped people get their AF, or helped with a quest or whatever. Bringing race/nationality into this has nothing to do with anything, you're just bashing NA at this point for no reason. I have helped people without getting anything in return. No gil, no items, no favors for them to return at a later date, nothing. I must be JP then, since NA are all greedy and won't do jack without getting something out of it.

The example with the emp pin is a good example, need before greed, just like you've been saying.You wouldn't have taken the coffer, fine, but don't assume(because we know what happens then :lol: ) that no one gives a shit about anyone else just because you would have gone out of your way to make sure that you didn't possibly steal someone's coffer.

 

[Elemmire]

well.. that depends what you are popping the coffer for.. if for AF then sure.. first come first serve (if the other person is going for AF). If the other person isn't going for AF than you get priority. If you aren't going for AF but the other person is.. they should get it first. Now if you are both going for treasure than first open first serve. If there are monsters around that'd aggro.. I'd prolly open first and run away. Unless I'm sure no one is around and I can kill the mob fast enough.. I kill the mob.. that's how I feel about coffers.

 

[Davio]

imo, i think the JPs were whiny bitches. Too bad they didnt get the coffer, they can try again. First comes first serve.

 

[Sneakypants]

Sneaky, you said you gave them 15 seconds. Maybe those 15 secs while you weren't doing anything gave them the impression that you weren't after the coffer, so they took their time?

Just a thought.

Perhaps.
Still, not my fault or concern that they didn't do what they came there to do. My knowledge of what they were after would have changed everything, but I don't feel it's my responsibility to ask them what they are doing. They need to protect the investment of their time there and grab what they came for and maybe send tells to others indicating that they are looking for AF.


When went for RNG subjob, some ass kiled the tiger after I sent tells to him and he mentioned he wouldn't kill it. This happened like 3 or 4 times.
You know what though?
I got that RNG subjob because I pursued it enough. I kept sending tells and when he wouldn't just bow out, I had to beat him to the punch.


I have already said that if they let me know what their business was, I'd step aside. It is not my concern to investigate every scenario, or even some. Things like this happen and everyone knows it. SO if you're going for a coffer, it's best to make the coffer the priority and not some leeches.
For all I knew, they didn't even care for that coffer.