Treasure Coffers, Priorities...

[yanzi]

By level 75 and rank 10, a player should know that.

in case you haven't figured it out by now, rank means nothing anymore. people are rank 10 by the time their first job is level 60.

To the people it means nothing to: WAKE UP!
I'm only level 61 and rank 6, and I can clearly see the reality of the situation.


It was theirs for the taking, and they failed miserably.
Orville Reddenbocker can pop corn faster than they can open coffers.

uh, didn't you just prove my point? rank doesn't matter, it only shows how many high level friends you know.

 

[Cix]

*EDIT*
Forget it, Yanzi, I concede, enjoy the boards.

 

[Sneakypants]

The competition thing already exists. It wasn't just created at this moment or when NA began playing.

you seem to be so set on your mindset that you will pop any coffer regardless. then why even make a post asking people about it, since obviously nothing we say will change your mind?
next time, don't even bother waiting 15 seconds since it makes no difference.

15 seconds does make a difference, considering that is 5 times longer than it takes to accomplish once.

You're just upset because I don't agree with YOU. I have agreed with opinions that have differed from my own. I can agree with an opinion regarding something that lies in a gray area, and still not follow that opinion to a T. Others have said they can see things my way as well. It goes both ways. I think I lie somewhere in between your left-wing, let's make sure everyone feels super about what's about to happen attitude, and some right-wing, just pop it and screw everyone attitude.

At least I understand how the world works and do what I can in order not to get screwed when I hunt for AF.


I am not so set that I will never change. I was looking for discussion, not someone to demand that I change, lest I am the perpetuator of NA / JP stereotypes. Have you ever thought that your own closed mindedness of the bigger picture does a good job of exhibiting certain stereotypes?

In this game, there is no "My way or the highway."
...And no reason to give people with that attitude the time of day. There are plenty of other players who will have a more dynamic and positive outlook.

There are rules and cultures in this game though. Everyone knows them or becomes knowledgable of them at some point.

 

[Sneakypants]

By level 75 and rank 10, a player should know that.

in case you haven't figured it out by now, rank means nothing anymore. people are rank 10 by the time their first job is level 60.

To the people it means nothing to: WAKE UP!
I'm only level 61 and rank 6, and I can clearly see the reality of the situation.


It was theirs for the taking, and they failed miserably.
Orville Reddenbocker can pop corn faster than they can open coffers.

uh, didn't you just prove my point? rank doesn't matter, it only shows how many high level friends you know.

That comment is as useless as nuts on a neutered cat.

You're right. The JP in question proved that rank doesn't matter.
They roll in as rank 10s, thinking they own the place. The THF brings high level help to do something that is EASILY soloable.

Self sufficient > rank any day.

 

[Sneakypants]

Just me, trying to be helpful as usual...

http://www.qcdn.org/viewtopic.php?p=197297#197297


Clearly there was a missing. I addressed it in the form of a guide.

 

[yanzi]

The competition thing already exists. It wasn't just created at this moment or when NA began playing.

you seem to be so set on your mindset that you will pop any coffer regardless. then why even make a post asking people about it, since obviously nothing we say will change your mind?
next time, don't even bother waiting 15 seconds since it makes no difference.

15 seconds does make a difference, considering that is 5 times longer than it takes to accomplish once.

You're just upset because I don't agree with YOU. I have agreed with opinions that have differed from my own. I can agree with an opinion regarding something that lies in a gray area, and still not follow that opinion to a T. Others have said they can see things my way as well. It goes both ways. I think I lie somewhere in between your left-wing, let's make sure everyone feels super about what's about to happen attitude, and some right-wing, just pop it and screw everyone attitude.

At least I understand how the world works and do what I can in order not to get screwed when I hunt for AF.


I am not so set that I will never change. I was looking for discussion, not someone to demand that I change, lest I am the perpetuator of NA / JP stereotypes. Have you ever thought that your own closed mindedness of the bigger picture does a good job of exhibiting certain stereotypes?

In this game, there is no "My way or the highway."
...And no reason to give people with that attitude the time of day. There are plenty of other players who will have a more dynamic and positive outlook.

There are rules and cultures in this game though. Everyone knows them or becomes knowledgable of them at some point.

and what difference would 15 seconds be than if you had waiting 1 minute? both of you made incorrect assumptions, he of people being courteous to him, and you of him being not interested in the coffer. any kind of assumption/misunderstanding could have been avoided by a simple tell.
the problem is most americans have this "me first" attitude and that's one reason why other countries in the world (including some japanese ffxi players) dislike americans. no, you didn't have to take the initiative to send a tell. but in in your actions, you only reinforce negative stereotypes. i.e. americans being callous and apathetic to what happens to everyone else as long as they get theirs.

 

[Panda]

the problem is most americans have this "me first" attitude and that's one reason why other countries in the world (including some japanese ffxi players) dislike americans.

DUDE. SHUT UP.

This is NOT an american only trait. You are SO full of yourself. whatever nationality you are from. It doesnt matter. That is so RIDICULOUS. I mean, I want to sit here and try to justify that to you, but its just so hard because its COMMON FREAKING SENSE. its a basic INSTINCT that is passed through that is sometimes cultured by certain areas and not others. but the "overall" culture has NOTHING to do with one ISOLATED incident on a VIDEO GAME. PLEASE.

You're going to take an instance in a game, a GAME, about a coffer chest, for cryin out loud, and try to spin it into an american vs jp incident. thats HILARIOUS.

you fail at common sense.

anyway, sneaky, all those high level friends you have, man, thank god. lol. <high five>

 

[yanzi]

You're going to take an instance in a game, a GAME, about a coffer chest, for cryin out loud, and try to spin it into an american vs jp incident. thats HILARIOUS.

/bow
thank you, it's too bad comedians don't get paid more, or i'd give up my day job.

 

[Cix]

DUDE. SHUT UP.

This is NOT an american only trait. You are SO full of yourself. whatever nationality you are from. It doesnt matter. That is so RIDICULOUS. I mean, I want to sit here and try to justify that to you, but its just so hard because its COMMON FREAKING SENSE. its a basic INSTINCT that is passed through that is sometimes cultured by certain areas and not others. but the "overall" culture has NOTHING to do with one ISOLATED incident on a VIDEO GAME. PLEASE.

You're going to take an instance in a game, a GAME, about a coffer chest, for cryin out loud, and try to spin it into an american vs jp incident. thats HILARIOUS.

you fail at common sense.

anyway, sneaky, all those high level friends you have, man, thank god. lol. <high five>

Damn, and I was so sure I was done with this thread, but I found that post so full of truth that Im ashamed I didnt post it myself earlier.
/kneel Panda

 

[ultraseven]

Fact: you asked for opinions.
Fact: some of those opinions (backed up with logical reasoning) were that what you did was fine.
Fact: some of those opinions (also backed up with logical reasoning) were that what you did was not fine.
Fact: you're remarkably defensive when faced with the latter sort of opinions.

My personal opinion is that while I don't think of you as someone who did something heinously evil, I also don't think of you as someone who showed consideration. In other words, I think that this action of yours (not you as a person, I don't know you at all so I can't speak about that) happened to be a selfish and greedy action, but *somewhat* (although not entirely) justifiable.

I'd honestly recommend dropping the "I had every right, there was nothing remotely wrong about what I did" argument, and going for a more accurate "I guess in retrospect it was unnecessary, and a bad idea" argument.

Acting self-righteous about it when you're really not entirely in the right ... well ... isn't a good idea. You're not entirely in the wrong either, but you really have to have an untouchable moral high ground (which you don't) in order to justify the attitude you've been taking towards those who criticize you. Just swallow some pride and acknowledge the criticisms that are fair.

good points Vilurum...

all i got to say is... give the guy his AF... and this type of bullshit thread would not have existed and all the other posts in it. 'nuff said.

 

[Sneakypants]

You're going to take an instance in a game, a GAME, about a coffer chest, for cryin out loud, and try to spin it into an american vs jp incident. thats HILARIOUS.

/bow
thank you, it's too bad comedians don't get paid more, or i'd give up my day job.

Don't quit your day job.

:wink:

 

[Angof]

I think the best solution to this is...if theres a coffer and you need soemthing from it, or are looking for soemthing from it. Then pop the sucker if you can. Looking for something from it could be a map or some sort of item you can sell for a nice chunk of change. But besides that just leave it alone. Then again I am not a THF so maybe thats why I have this view :lol:

 

[Sneakypants]

good points Vilurum...

all i got to say is... give the guy his AF... and this type of bullshit thread would not have existed and all the other posts in it. 'nuff said.

If he asked for it, or help to get it, or just took it, there would also be no problem. I can't give him his AF. He needs to get it for himself.

 

[Vilurum]

good points Vilurum...

all i got to say is... give the guy his AF... and this type of bullshit thread would not have existed and all the other posts in it. 'nuff said.

If he asked for it, or help to get it, or just took it, there would also be no problem. I can't give him his AF. He needs to get it for himself.

Fact is, there's no real need to go announcing your AF intentions for a coffer that it's safe to assume nobody else wants. If this were a Zvahl coffer that also contains Ballad II (which is going for a fairly high price these days), it'd be reasonable to see if you've got competition for your AF from someone who's there to farm the coffer for money. If this were an Oztroja coffer back when it contained Astral Rings, again, safe to assume competition.

But it ain't. It's just a gil-or-crap-item coffer and so it's *perfectly* fair to assume nobody wants it for anything but AF (risk of mimics or traps is too much of a nuisance for most THFs - especially in an out of the way place that, sorry, sucks for farming to begin with; as for non-THFs, who the hell is gonna farm up an Oztroja coffer key for the normal contents of this coffer?), so you can't foist the blame onto them for not telling you when they shouldn't have needed to.

Fact also is, there's a perfectly valid explanation for why they killed the leeches first before trying to pop the coffer. For example, being a 50 THF there was a higher expectation of a mimic, so they cleared local mobs first so they wouldn't have to deal with those *and* a mimic. Pop it successfully, get AF and not have enemies to deal with. Get a mimic, you and your friends can devote your attention to it without worrying about other enemies, and it'll drop a coffer key which will mean you'll get the next coffer with no worries.

Perhaps that wasn't their particular explanation. Perhaps it was. Regardless, you can't just blithely say there's no reason for them not to have popped the coffer first thing, because there *is* such a reason. All you need is one counterexample (which I just provided) and you lose the "there's no reason" argument. I expect that I will not be seeing that argument in future. (Either that, or I'll have to start spouting my "learn to read" argument.)

Was it a truly evil and heinous thing to do? No. But it was inconsiderate and thoughtless (at best; I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you didn't bother thinking of why they were there despite having 15 seconds to do so, rather than assuming you did and took it anyway). But I'm less bothered by the action itself than by your continual justifications and defensive behavior *after asking for opinions*.

So stop acting like you were totally justified and any and all fault lay with them. Sure, they could have told you their intentions. Sure, they could've picked it first thing (and possibly been stuck with a mimic *and* a bunch of leeches). I'm not saying they couldn't have done anything to get the coffer instead of you. But as you can read above ... it ain't like you're a saint in this situation either. If anything, you are the guiltier of the two parties and more fault - despite less responsibility - lies with you than with them.

So again, drop the justifications and drop the defensiveness and just acknowledge that it really wasn't the right thing to do. You're not responsible for their getting their AF but you are responsible for being able to choose actions in life without screwing other people over for really no good reason. It's called simple human consideration, and in this case at any rate, I believe you lacked it.

 

[Taurothar]

Has anyone brought up the odds that a 50 thief would have done his AF2 already and be READY to open a coffer for his others? Sure he's JP but I don't know many people who did all of their AF before the level they could use them, let alone at 50. I'm disreguarding all discussion already presented about the ethics of this. Did that thief need the coffer for AF or was he using it for profit/gain in some other way? It's hardly proved by a {English} {leave} {box} {mine} attitude, they never said anything (as far as I know) about it being for their AF. Therefore, Sneaky was in NO WAY in the wrong for opening whats sitting in front of him. You can't expect to ask someone standing next to a NM if they want it or not, or ask every puller if they want the mob you see to pull.

 

[Vilurum]

Convince me why a 50 THF would drag some high level friends along to Oztroja to play guardian while he pops the coffer for some piddly gil or a Safeguard Ring, and I'll be convinced he wasn't there for AF. If he was there for monetary gain from the coffer he wouldn't be dragging his friends along - the monetary gain is slim enough as it is, and that's before having to share it, and generally people have better things to do than help their friends farm - and in this case, help their friends farm inefficiently.

And considering the high level friends, it's not unreasonable that the THF might be the player's second (or third, or fourth ...) job and they already have an existing high level job. I know that with my BRD already at 75, I got all my WHM AF when my WHM was 50 (except AF3, which I procrastinated organizing so much that I'd hit 51). Why? To get it done and over with so I wouldn't have to worry about stopping for AF all the time with WHM like I had to do with BRD.

And because my inventory is cluttered enough with stuff from my other job (BRD) that I really wouldn't want to be carrying around 4 out of 5 pieces of rare-ex armor when I could get the fifth one and turn the lot into a key item that takes up no space, that I could get out again when I got around to levelling WHM. Turns out that hasn't happened yet (my WHM's gradually levelling from escort quest scrolls), since I've been busy levelling mage subs to 37 and also just doing a lot of non-exp stuff. But that's no reason why I should have to wait on getting my WHM AF until I can actually use it.

So, perfectly good reasoning for getting AF at 50, just to get it done and over with regardless of immediate need, and I'll leave it to you to convince me that they could possibly want that coffer for money instead of AF, when the coffer is so bad for money to begin with and they dragged some friends along.

Like I said. Reasonable expectation that anyone after an Oztroja coffer is after AF for it. Why? Because the contents suck too much to justify the risk/effort to open it otherwise. Sneakypants is the exception in wanting the regular contents - not the rule. Benefit of the doubt works and all, but it works a lot better if the possibility is reasonably probable.

 

[Panda]

Has anyone brought up the odds that a 50 thief would have done his AF2 already and be READY to open a coffer for his others?

I had all of my AF by lvl 52.

But if the case was that that thf had another job at a higher level, couldnt he have just popped the coffer as that job? Or do you need to be that job when you pop the coffer, not just have the quest activated. I get confused, because I know you can do it with the NM battles..

 

[Vilurum]

For the direct-in-coffer AFs (the two of your three coffers that are *not* the key item for the AF hands quest), you have to open the coffer as the respective job. For the other three pieces of AF armor (and the AF weapon which fairly universally sucks regardless of job, though it's decent enough for a few such as WHM), you ultimately get them from a quest. The quest will require you to be the appropriate job when starting it, but that's it.

In the case of the AF hands quests (and a few other things like PLD AF3), you'll have to open a coffer as part of the quest, but you get a key item from the coffer and (for some strange logical reason) this works regardless of what job you open the coffer as. So you don't need to be the correct job for any coffers *other* than the direct-in-coffer AF.

There are also a few cases where you have to be the relevant job as part of the AF quest, such as during BLM AF3 where you have to Manafont and check a ??? while manafonted. For the most part, however, including all or practically all of the NM fights, you can do it as whatever job you please.

In the case of Oztroja coffer for THF, that ain't the key item for the AF hands quest, so you have to open it as THF.

 

[Sneakypants]

You're right. I'm sure there was some sort of logic and reasoning behind why they chose to do things the way they did.

My point, superceding other discussion: Their priorities aren't my priorities.

Perhaps there is no reason for them to ask me to stay out of the way. It sure would have helped their chances though. As would opening the coffer...What they supposedly came to do.

I can' acknowledge that it wasn't the right thing to do. It seems that it's perfectly acceptable to pop any coffer, under any circumstance. Give time for them to pop it just isn't good enough for certain people.

 

[yanzi]

You're right. I'm sure there was some sort of logic and reasoning behind why they chose to do things the way they did.

My point, superceding other discussion: Their priorities aren't my priorities.

and that is why i called you selfish and inconsiderate.

Perhaps there is no reason for them to ask me to stay out of the way. It sure would have helped their chances though. As would opening the coffer...What they supposedly came to do.

you don't possibly think they will /tell everyone who enters oz they they are attempting to open a coffer, please stay away? that's practically advertising to greedy people that the coffer is there for taking under their nose. besides, it is entirely possible they didn't see you. which brings it back to my point of you wanting to give them a chance to open the coffer since you gave them 15 seconds. wouldn't a /tell have accomplished more with less assumption?

I can' acknowledge that it wasn't the right thing to do. It seems that it's perfectly acceptable to pop any coffer, under any circumstance. Give time for them to pop it just isn't good enough for certain people.

i won't say that what sneaky did is wrong in a sense of rules. because it's not. but in this world, there's a lot of things people can do (within the bounds of the law) and still be jerks (not calling you one sneaky, this is just a point). next time, if you want to try to be considerate, don't give them time, just a simple /tell will do. besides, you make xxx person happy for his AF and you may just meet another friend.