Underleveled/Dumb subjobs!!!

Sorry for the double post :oops:

/agree Annabelle

Parry is one of the more universal melee skills (not sure for monks) that never seems to get capped, and every chance you get for a skill raise in it rocks. Only time you get a skill raise in it... is when you parry.
 
i kno this is probably a bit late in the thread but i just joined today so oh well. I sub whm with war all the time. but i also use apple pies for an xtra 25 mp boost. its really a great sub IF u kno what ur doing. i mainly use it to cure after battles and cure the whm if he gets hit. the problem with most ppl subbing whm with a melee class is that they have no idea how to be a whm. besides it doesnt really matter what ur subjob is as long as u kno how to use it. i subbed thf to my whm till i felt like lvling other jobs. subjobs are just meant to ENHANCE ur main job. thats really all its for. a sucky player is a sucky player no matter what his character set up is. same can be said about a good player too. its all about the skillz
 
Those 25MP will let you cast 1xCure2/3xCure... even if you used a pumpkin pie it wouldn't matter much. The problem here is, it'd help the party a lot more if you ate something that raised your defense (fish mithkabobs give my warrior 30+ bonus to defense) or your attack (meat mithkabobs raise my attack tremendously when I'm not tanking). Then, after you waste your MP, you're going to med, and waste all the TP. There's a reason good parties will build TP before fighting something extremely strong...
Anyhow, you could be the greatest WAR/WHM in the entire world, but when it comes down to it, you might barely compare to a mediocre player playing WAR/MNK or so. It's an easier job, therefore easier for a mediocre player to master. There are people that can play video games with their feet... it doesn't make them the best players in the world, only the best at playing with their feet.
If you want to say I don't know how to play as a WHM go for it. When I'm playing as a WHM though, there's rarely any downtime in my parties. I know when to rest, which cure to use when, and when I should be debuffing and with what. When I play with my warrior, I don't pay attention to this, there are other people in the party to help out. And most of the time.. the mages shouldn't even get cured because they need to med anyway. If the WARs kept hate off the WHM, there'd be almost no reason for them to need more HP than they could med after the fight.
Oh well =)
 
No if i was saying u dont kno how 2 play as a whm id say "U dont kno how to play as a whm" what i am saying is that if u kno how to use whm as a sub its very usefull. that one cure 2 can really help a whm who just got the crab smacked outta him or urself or what if the whm gets poisoned and no1 else has poisona or an antidote and the whm has no mp. with whm as a sub u can help him. or what if a gob drops a bomb and 3 ppl go red? that 1 cure 2 can really help.
 
Roofie, that logic doesn't mean you're a smart player for having the ability to cure the WHM when he gets hit. It means you're a lousy player for not holding aggro and letting him get hit. A MNK sub would have given you higher STR to hit more, higher HP to tank longer, and the ability to Boost twice between Provokes as an aggro builder. And by eating Fish Mithkabobs instead of pies, your VIT and DEF shoot up making you take less damage, lose less hate, and your WHM has to cure less, meaning he takes less aggro as well. Not to mention, you retain TP, meaning more weaponskills which also help keep aggro better. By the time your WAR/WHM finally gets access to Cure II (which will suck with half healing skill and low MND), the WAR/MNK would have Counter, making the battles that much shorter.

This is what I did with my WAR in Qufim from lvl 19-21, and if I ever lost aggro it was because the BLM overnuked or my macros didn't trigger (lag or main menu opening accidentally). Otherwise, the WHM could cure me without fear (heck, we didn't need a WHM, we used a SMN/WHM without Cure II) and the THF could depend on Sneak Attacking opposite me. It's one of the greatest compliments to a working party when someone says he has to leave in an hour and then stays on for 2 more hours because "now we're really rolling, I can lose a little sleep!"

Bottom line, WAR/WHM will only seem to work well at low levels in a party full of noobs (why are you dropping Cures after an AoE gob bomb when the WHM could DS+Curaga? Oh, I see, the WHM coudn't afford Curaga). That doesn't mean it's right, and it doesn't teach anyone in your party how to play the game better.

DRK: Hey, whats ur def?
WAR: 87
DRK: Mine's 93.
Me: 133 with Fish Mithkabob.
DRK: OMG!! You tank!!
 
Well, I would exactly call myself an expert on this, but I'd say that in a PT, a PLD should definitely have WAR subbed. And I say that solely for Provoke. I know it seems like a waste to some to have a sub solely for one ability, and not for stat bonuses and such, but with PLDs, it seems to be necessary to me. When soloing, of course, anything goes. Whatever works for you, go for it.

On the subject of underlevled subjobs, I have to say I find it lazy to not level them. The only time my subjob has fallen behind at all is now, with my 30THF/14MNK. And that's because now I have NIN, and I'm leveling that to be my new sub. Now I admit, sometimes the difference isn't that great from a level or two, and in that case, it's okay not to level it. But the way I see it, that's just more levels you have to gain next time it needs leveling. What really annoys me, though, is when I see something like BLM30/WHM5. I see this all the time. These people would be so much more useful to their PT if they leveled their subjob those 10 extra levels. I have a friend who has that job combo, and when I told him to get off his lazy ass and level his WHM, he said "Why? I still get invited quickly without it." How arrogant is that? I understand that people are desperate to get a PT together and start fighting as quickly as possible, but we should send a message to people like this by not inviting them and telling them that this is why we're not inviting them. I know that at higher levels this is already done, and we need to start doing it at the lower levels, too.

Okay, now for stupid subs. I don't notice this on people as often, but I've seen my fair share. For instance, I saw two WARs in Yhoator Jungle who were subbing BLM. It was leveled and everything, but BLM? You're not a DRK yet, guys, and this doesn't work. One of them even said to the other something like "Finally another WAR/BLM! Aren't we cool?" or something like that. I eventually blacklisted that guy, though for different reasons (not only was he a complete n00b, but he was an annoying jerk, too). And another time when I was PTing in Yhoator Jungle, our WHM left, and we found a new one after a few minutes. She was a WHM/MNK, and when the fighting started, she used a Meat Mithkabob and started spamming Boost as much as me, moving up to the front lines and meleeing with the rest of us. She managed to heal us okay for that battle, but I think that was more because it was a weak mob. After that battle, our PT leader asked her not to melee, as it made it harder for the tanks to keep the hate off of her. She responded with something like "Please let me play my way, I'm a tough WHM." At this point I told everyone that I had to go and left.

Anyway, my point is, know your role in a PT, and choose your sub based on that. And keep it leveled. Please.
 
Honestly, if a WHM wants to deal some damage so bad, then sub a BST. If ur subbing a melee, then its affecting ur hp just as much as the BST. At least with Beast, u can call a familiar and do damage wi that, or charm a CONSIDERABLY weaker mob and do more dmg than ur familiar. I havent tried it but im thinking itd be a good combo. It cant be too much different from a druid in EQ. I used to play healer a lot (and had a better manapool and healing rate than most clerics on CT *puffs out chest*) and would throw my teddy bear out to do some little damage, or charm, but rarely. Id honestly say try it for u fidgety WHMs who get tired of healing. I know how it is, u wanna do more, but its ur classes primary focus. So if u wanna do dmg, try the BST thing. Im not fully aware of how BST functions in FFXI, so if anyone has anything to say otherwise, plz do.
 
ok..somepeople have been making fun of my subjob.

So what if its a level 3 bard?

It gives extra attack OR defence to the whole party.

What is thief gonna give me in an xp party other than sneak attack WHICH won't matter BECAUSE I'm a mage and im in the back healing my arse off. Parties wanted me to bring bard so i did.
 
I've toyed around with the Bard sub quite a bit, and I can share some of my observations. Bard, as a sub, is gimped from its mainjob version for the following reasons:

* You can only put one song effect on a person at a time, instead of two.
* Your skill levels (singing, wind, string) are halved.
* You cannot equip an instrument. This means besides not getting +1/+2 bonuses to certain songs, but you're not applying the wind/string skills for particular songs either.

Now, this doesn't mean the BRD sub is useless by any means, but it's important to know where the limitations lie.

For instance, both Minuet and Minne give Attack/Defense bonuses dependant on your musical skill levels. I tested this out once with capped Singing, high String, and low Wind. As I did nothing but sit in Bastok playing songs with a flute over and over again, I noticed that the ATK/DEF bonuses actually increased as I raised my Wind skill level from 2 to 29. Therefore, for a BRD sub Minne/Minuet with only half Singing skill and no instrument skills to add to it at all, the bonuses are really nothing to write home about. And if your BRD sub is only leveled to 3, it's even much, much worse.

Paeon, on the other hand, is quite different. This song gives your party a static HP regen rate, regardless of level or skill. So I've found it useful when subbing BRD to keep Paeon up at all times. This eases the WHM's job, helping them save MP while you cap off everyone's HP. When you hit lvl 50 with a 25 BRD sub, Mage's Ballad works in much the same way. In fact, I partied with a RDM/BRD just last night who kept Paeon II up at all times, and our mages had MP to spare, letting us plow through mandies and gobs and even hitting chain #5! ^^

So RDM/BRD can actually be a pretty handy combination if you use it right.
 
hehe i partied with a war for a little today...managed to make it to 18 not knowin how to voke anywhere near effectively and wanted to be a PAL/WHM eventually we asked him how he would tank and he said he wouldnt hed be a "super undead killer"....wow...just wow
 
LOL super undead killer....that is great

Well as far as the subjob thing, i used to be adamant on having sub completely leveled. I had warrior leveled to 18 for thief main to get me to 30. Then i went farther and made a mad dash for 40. This was not so bad as there were only 2 levels where i wasnt current. Now i have been farming for over a week now. Im raising 2.2 million to get almost the best gear a ranger can have up till level 35 or so. (im sorry id love to get the peacock charm but on our server its up in the 5 million range) Im about 1/4 of the way there and its going slowly. So as a change of pace i decided to level thief a bit more. I want to get to 45 for TH2 but im sorry, im not going to buy all new armor and weapons etc. to get my warrior up to 22. Im trying to save money and i dont want to blow it all. I think ive been good till now and after im done with this farming thing, ill be good about it again but ill just stick with the 18 war sub.

Now as far as which subjob to use, i dont judge. I have read about some really good people who used BRD as a subjob. It shouldnt work according to most people, but they did. Myself, i like to go unique. I started the whole RNG/DRK combo i think, and now people consider it a viable alternative to warrior. (at least on Allakhazam i never saw it mentioned until i brought it up) and now im looking at others crazy combos that mgiht work. But i dont just throw dumb stuff out like RNG/SMN. I look at the facts. Drk has last resort, str +, and attack up passive abilities. Also being able to use magic would be fun. Though lately ive been considering ninja and even though everyone uses this combo, it sounds fun to play. I wont judge someone until i see their performance. Ive seen people with the "right" sj do much worse than those with the "wrong" sj. Now there are a few no-brainers. A PLD or NIN is gonna have to have WAR subbed for provoke, it just has to happen. But other than that, i think ill give them a shot. I have a RDM/NIN in my LS. It seems like another fun combo. Give em a chance before you go crazy on em, it might be better than you think.
 
how necro is this?

lol

The last post on the last page....hmm, thats pretty necro.

Just messin with ya all, thought it would be funny ^^
 
Talk about bringing a post back from the dead...
 
lol i saw kurie seeking today in highlands as 10drk/5whm XD
 
You have an underlvled/inapropriate sub you are gimped and do not deserve pts end of story.
 
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