"unofficial" talk of the legit ffxi windower mode.

Firestreak said:
They don't function the same as regular macros being entirely created within the windower GUI and as such run by their own parameters. as a result, they don't stutter and they have instant priority.

If I hit a swap gear macro on a regular client, may take half a second for it to go off, if you do it with windower macro, it's instantly put in effect.
Click to expand...

I don't think you quite know how the windower macros work.
 
20 bucks says SE doesnt actually make a "windower" or whatever.
I'll bet ya all they do is allow for alt+tab, which is better than things are now, but still pretty lame. entering and exiting full screen mode blows.
 
Twille said:
20 bucks says SE doesnt actually make a "windower" or whatever.
I'll bet ya all they do is allow for alt+tab, which is better than things are now, but still pretty lame. entering and exiting full screen mode blows.
Click to expand...

That's all I ask for. I don't like that Windows' propensity for untimely popup windows can make me crash to desktop.
 
Pompidou said:
That's all I ask for. I don't like that Windows' propensity for untimely popup windows can make me crash to desktop.
Click to expand...
How do you still get pop-ups? I don't think I've seen one in two years.
 
Here's my stance on this...

SE is absolutely fucking retarded. We all know this, and say this on a regular basis. I don't take direction from retards. I do know what is socially acceptable though, just like I do in real life. Using windower, is to me, a parallel of Jay walking accross a completely empty street at 4AM. If you are stupid and unlucky you can get in trouble, but you've done no actual harm but "Break the rules" I mean, it's unfair and all that I walk accross the same street others are told not to by the rules, but my common sense tells me its fine and anyone I ask but the most anal of anal people will agree.

I wont follow pointless rules set by morons who don't enforce said rules. You don't bot because our community thinks it is unfair and the authorities will actively seek you out for punishment. It is cheating according to the community and that is the only authority on the matter I will respect, and the fact that SE takes action only furthers that. However, if most users don't care either way, or support something that breaks the rules and SE doesn't actively seek these people out, then reguardless of them violating some old rules, I don't think it is cheating. Some people can disagree, but they are the minority, and are not supported by the authority, so logically, regardless of how technically correct they are in their reading of the rules, they are wrong in the discusion of the rules.

You arent being a hypocrit for breaking some rules and getting upset over other people breaking different rules. They are different rules, and different actions; both in effect and their enforcement. Sure breaking rules is breaking rules, but if you break an arm or break your skull open you wouldn't feel it justifiable to just call the later "breaking a bone"...
 
Last edited:
Garvin said:
Good, because it'll be the ones who are cheating at that point.
They have no problem banning thousands now, I'm sure they'll have no problem getting their point across after real windowed mode.
Click to expand...

This made me cringe a little... I had always assumed it would be common sense, but SE's got a real love/hate relationship with gilsellers. So all these rediculous amounts of bannings we are seeing (across all servers, mind you) are making SE a good chunk of change. Haven't you ever wondered why really obvious, well known gilsellers take forever to get banned? Because they are the anchor to SE's moneyboat.

Lets say you ban 4,000 gilseller accounts, but you leave their meathods for making that gil back completely intact. They've been a little screwed, but they aren't disheartened, for they can buy another copy for another CD key and make their distributer accounts again, and fill those accounts back up with gil, since after all, they still have their actual money makers. Now this cycle repeats over and over again, and the end result is the RMT they ban are paying the full price for the game every time they get banned which from it's frequency is actually makeing SE more money than if they just payed their $12.95/month. These bank characters they ban, along with the little level 1 flee hacking quest spammers, are probably making SE about $26.00 a month to our $12.95. And they know they will just keep comming back, paying for another code and getting banned again.

To make this deal even sweeter for SE, they get to tell stock holders that people are still buying the game every month, and the player base is constantly being infused with new blood, even if they know in their hearts its just the same guy they banned the week before. Sales are still occurring and the demand for shipements still exist. They don't look like such a dying game when there are thousands of new accounts created every month.

Sure in these banning waves some actual players who were cheating get thrown out, but they're making such a killing off the RMT that it doesn't matter. They may even get that guy back, you never know! Dowzer was banned, but he still plays. I'm sure the same thing has happened elsewhere as well. And in some cases, these rounds of bannings may actually work out fine for RMT. After all, right after a nice large wave of bannings, I'm sure there is a little surge in the account buying market to help recover the money from all the gil that was deleted.

Banning gilsellers is the best thing SE ever did for it's pocketbook. Don't think for a second that doing the same kind of a mass ban they do for gil sellers would go over well if performed on the actual playerbase. They know who's doing what. They may be retards when it comes to common sense issues within their game, but their accountants are smart enough to point them at the right people to ban.
 
Bigboy said:
Banning gilsellers is the best thing SE ever did for it's pocketbook. Don't think for a second that doing the same kind of a mass ban they do for gil sellers would go over well if performed on the actual playerbase. They know who's doing what. They may be retards when it comes to common sense issues within their game, but their accountants are smart enough to point them at the right people to ban.
Click to expand...
A ban of players continuing to use other 3rd party applications after the implementation of a windowed mode is no difference than banning the rest of the cheaters, as there is no longer a legitimate use for any application of the sort beyond that point.

Not to mention it should no longer be a mass banning, as people will stop using windower with the new mode... The only ones who will continue to will do so for plugins, and deserve a ban. Why would that make you cringe?
 
Garvin said:
A ban of players continuing to use other 3rd party applications after the implementation of a windowed mode is no difference than banning the rest of the cheaters, as there is no longer a legitimate use for any application of the sort beyond that point.

Not to mention it should no longer be a mass banning, as people will stop using windower with the new mode... The only ones who will continue to will do so for plugins, and deserve a ban. Why would that make you cringe?
Click to expand...

Well these are people that will most likely not come back if they get banned. That is the difference. Your lack of actual understanding when you compared a gilseller mass banning to what would innevitably be a player mass banning, if SE every tried to enforce it's rule, is what made me cringe. Complete ignorance to the whole of the situation. You already know it won't happen because the game would practically shut down. The number of real players is dwindling and the numer of alternatives in games is rising. SE would be amputating its head.

If you cant see the difference, you'd be a bigger idiot than the creators of CoP.
 
It's circular justification. You see it as righteous because it's not enforced... then you see it as bad to enforce because it's righteous. The reality has always been that you find some cheats acceptable and others not dependent on if they increase or decrease your enjoyment of the game, not about their functionality or enforcement.

Now don't tell me about general consensus of players, that's some bullshit, because the general consensus of the players is going to be dependent on the enforcement of the rules in the first place. If you play a game like Asheron's Call, they have cheats there which are worse than anything that's ever touched FFXI, and they're generally considered perfectly acceptable by the community. People will talk about it, people will buy/sell items/money/accounts for real money openly and there's no stigma at all. The stigma is added by the rule or the enforcement, therefore your only discernible morality is that they should keep up the status quo.
 
All SE would need to do is one "mass" banning of nonsanctioned windower use w/ plugins and declare it a few times in writing, and the point would be driven home, and I'm pretty certain the remaining players would abandon their plugin use. Precedent is a powerful motivator I think. Once players know SE is out to get them, they'll change. It'd only take one strike for people to take notice. Of course, the banning notice they display on POL and various websites would have to explicitely say "3rd party Windower/Plugin use", with a half dozen reiterations of the point to squish the inevitable "They don't ban for that" retorts.
 
Bigboy said:
Well these are people that will most likely not come back if they get banned. That is the difference. Your lack of actual understanding when you compared a gilseller mass banning to what would innevitably be a player mass banning, if SE every tried to enforce it's rule, is what made me cringe. Complete ignorance to the whole of the situation. You already know it won't happen because the game would practically shut down. The number of real players is dwindling and the numer of alternatives in games is rising. SE would be amputating its head.

If you cant see the difference, you'd be a bigger idiot than the creators of CoP.
Click to expand...
I see the difference perfectly fine, and Pompidou actually said my point. It's all about precedent, driving the point home, and they'll fucking stop or get banned. Anyone remaining who's too dense to get the point will be banned also.

P.S. They are banning normal players, not just RMT. I doubt they have a problem with it, as it's discouraging legitimate players.

P.P.S. CoP fucking rocked.
 
Firestreak said:
You see it as righteous because it's not enforced... then you see it as bad to enforce because it's righteous.
Click to expand...

Blow it out your ass, and stop with the strawman arguments. Your a fucking joke with this shit.

Firestreak said:
Now don't tell me about general consensus of players, that's some bullshit, because the general consensus of the players is going to be dependent on the enforcement of the rules in the first place.
Click to expand...

I dunno entirely wtf you are trying to say here, but I'd imagine you're the last person who should be trying to tell people not to make comments regarding the general consensus of other players. You already said how many people are hypocrits? I'm sorry, but if you wanna make sweeping generalizations reguarding how people should feel on this matter and how other people should be viewed, you probably should check yourself.

I'm just gonna point out all the times you say you weren't cheating and weren't benefitting from cheating and how you still try to hold a high ground on the subject with the stance that it doesn't violate your feelings on the matter so it shouldn't matter to us. When the tables are turned though, you are the first to come out and tell people how they must all be hypocrits and adhere to your logic. You want people to buy your lines of bullshit, you shouldn't try and question other peoples.

I've already stated, as have others, SE is fucking retarded. If they want my money I will play the game fully utilizing all the features and info they throw down the pipeline to me. If they send me my full PTs TP and full alliences HP and MP, I'm gonna look at it. If they don't want me to be able to do that, they should consider NOT SENDING IT. Thanks for cluttering my bandwidth with extra info and then telling me "no lookie!" I will do as I please, as I've always done. Computers aren't rare and precious commodities. Anyone can own one, and I can't imagine anyone with an internet connection not. There's no monopoly on this info. Get with the program or stfu. If you prefer PS2, you prefer not having that info, it comes with the territory. If it were up to me, I'd drop PS2 support in the blink of an eye, and I own a PS2 with FFXI on it! I am tired of dealing with shitty support for a lackluster game, being held back by rules that make no sense.

If someone could tell me why everyone shouldn't be allowed to see the info provided by windower and TParty then I might understand, but these are features that should be there. They've even gone to the trouble of sending the info to our clients, they just didn't make the final link. It's sloppy shit like that that makes SE so pathetic. I don't follow rules that exist just to have another rule. There has to be a reason, and it has to be plausible.

Garvin said:
P.P.S. CoP fucking rocked.
Click to expand...
CoP's storyline rocked, the whole process of getting through it and all the hoops and stipulations that came with it, did not. I loved it, but everything was so bitter sweet. The whole thing was kinda stupid though if you think about it.
Where'd this beach come from? (bibiki bay)
Yeah we are big loggers, but don't ask how we got this river to flow like this or where it connects to, in fact, just dont ask any questions. (Carpenters' Landing)
wtf, explosions and moblins under my city over night?!? Whose on watch here? (Movopolis)
What is the relevance to these monster hunts again? (Snoll Tzar and all the other totally random filler missions)
3 Taru's that have to perform petty theft on adventures have the resources to trvel back and forth from a safehold almost no one knows about, but I have to go through 3 craigs and somehow got dumped there from the most conveniently placed worm hole ever, only to see an outpost guard from my country standing there...

Too many glaring problems that even another week of sobriety out of their storyline writers would have fixed.
 
Last edited:
The game is old enough. Ban the actual players, they won't be back - ban enough, and their friends will leave. I'm sure a lot of us still play because it is fun, but its also teetering on a fine line that many could/should/would quit with a reason.

What you will have is a game devoid of high level players and a sprinkling of new players.
 
Bigboy said:
If someone could tell me why everyone shouldn't be allowed to see the info provided by windower and TParty then I might understand, but these are features that should be there. They've even gone to the trouble of sending the info to our clients, they just didn't make the final link. It's sloppy shit like that that makes SE so pathetic. I don't follow rules that exist just to have another rule. There has to be a reason, and it has to be plausible.
Click to expand...
The client might simply need to keep track of it. Maybe for preloading, maybe for something else, I don't know how FFXI is programmed. Maybe it's simply the way it has to send things out. Maybe it's so that when someone goes <tp>, it shows the local variable that you've been sent. It's a bad assumption that they sent you the information for you to see it, but simply didn't show it.

TP is hidden from view so that players actually have to work together (It's a foreign concept to most people, I know...) and coordinate their attacks. Of this I am confident, and the disgust people show toward this is really indicative of how well people work together anymore.

Distance, again, not displayed for obvious reasons, but kept for obvious reasons as well. Any good player can eyeball how far they are from something with rather good accuracy. The crappy ones rely on a plugin to sit there and look where they are.

Long story short, it's not your information to decide what to do with just because it's getting sent to you.

Bigboy said:
CoP's storyline rocked, the whole process of getting through it and all the hoops and stipulations that came with it, did not. I loved it, but everything was so bitter sweet. The whole thing was kinda stupid though if you think about it.
Where'd this beach come from? (bibiki bay)
Yeah we are big loggers, but don't ask how we got this river to flow like this or where it connects to, in fact, just dont ask any questions. (Carpenters' Landing)
wtf, explosions and moblins under my city over night?!? Whose on watch here? (Movopolis)
What is the relevance to these monster hunts again? (Snoll Tzar and all the other totally random filler missions)
3 Taru's that have to perform petty theft on adventures have the resources to trvel back and forth from a safehold almost no one knows about, but I have to go through 3 craigs and somehow got dumped there from the most conveniently placed worm hole ever, only to see an outpost guard from my country standing there...

Too many glaring problems that even another week of sobriety out of their storyline writers would have fixed.
Click to expand...
I didn't particularly mind the "hoops", because I had people who were smart and good at what they did with me. I enjoyed it.
As for the rest of that stuff, most of it is explained perfectly well (They have to maintain continuity while keeping the world itself static, that's no easy task.) The tarus are resourceful and comic relief, so they can do whatever they want. ;D
 
Garvin said:
TP is hidden from view so that players actually have to work together (It's a foreign concept to most people, I know...) and coordinate their attacks. Of this I am confident, and the disgust people show toward this is really indicative of how well people work together anymore.
Click to expand...
The problem with this is that so many of the players are so stupid, I'm surprised they can honestly even turn their computer on. They don't send TP reports, and they ignore yours and basically afk at the fights while they are auto-attacking.

If anything, I'd say that TP party actually improves how well the team can work together, assuming they all have TP party. Now, you don't have to constantly spam your TP to know when the other person is ready to WS, you can do a skillchain without saying anything; and if the blm is awake they can throw out a MB.

Distance, again, not displayed for obvious reasons, but kept for obvious reasons as well. Any good player can eyeball how far they are from something with rather good accuracy. The crappy ones rely on a plugin to sit there and look where they are.
Click to expand...
I agree that distance is more unfair than TP party, but as has already been said, ranger now heavily relies on being an exact distance away from their target to play their job to it's fullest. When you have a job that is seriously hindered because of not being at an exact distance, you get a real need for a distance plugin.

If there was any kind of visual cue to let you know that you're in range of an action, there would be no need for an exact distance measurement. In wow, they change the icon of your spells/abilities from white to red when you're out of range of those abilities; and that's really all that's needed.
 
Bajaratt said:
The problem with this is that so many of the players are so stupid, I'm surprised they can honestly even turn their computer on. They don't send TP reports, and they ignore yours and basically afk at the fights while they are auto-attacking.

If anything, I'd say that TP party actually improves how well the team can work together, assuming they all have TP party. Now, you don't have to constantly spam your TP to know when the other person is ready to WS, you can do a skillchain without saying anything; and if the blm is awake they can throw out a MB.
Click to expand...
I'd prefer the players actually improve rather than rely on the TP plugin (something I'd figured would happen from the start), but I guess that's just me.


Bajaratt said:
I agree that distance is more unfair than TP party, but as has already been said, ranger now heavily relies on being an exact distance away from their target to play their job to it's fullest. When you have a job that is seriously hindered because of not being at an exact distance, you get a real need for a distance plugin.

If there was any kind of visual cue to let you know that you're in range of an action, there would be no need for an exact distance measurement. In wow, they change the icon of your spells/abilities from white to red when you're out of range of those abilities; and that's really all that's needed.
Click to expand...
So learn to eyeball it like everything else. Lots of things rely heavily on distance, I've never had any problems, and it's certainly not enough to justify cheating just because "oh noes, my job is tricky"...
 
Garvin said:
I'd prefer the players actually improve rather than rely on the TP plugin (something I'd figured would happen from the start), but I guess that's just me.
Click to expand...
Hey, I'd love that too, but the exact opposite is happening. I'm tired of having to spam my TP macro to let some retard know I have TP while they completely ignore my requests for their TP so I can skill chain with them. If only one person has TPparty, it's not going to do much, but if everyone has it and isn't a total idiot, it makes the party better.

Most of the new players are worse geared, less skilled and generally just dumber than the people who started when the game was new. It's idiot-proofing random parties.

So learn to eyeball it like everything else. Lots of things rely heavily on distance, I've never had any problems, and it's certainly not enough to justify cheating just because "oh noes, my job is tricky"...
Click to expand...
Tell me how you can "eyeball" the difference between 10.3 and 10.5. The numbers are arbitrary, but the point is that when you can noticeably weaken your performance by being one step too far away or too close, being able to know the exact distance is important. They could spend the whole fight trying to find the correct distance, but that would be a huge waste of time and basically make their position in the party useless.
 
Last edited:
Bajaratt said:
Tell me how you can "eyeball" the difference between 10.3 and 10.5. The numbers are arbitrary, but the point is that when you can noticeably weaken your performance by being one step too far away or too close, being able to know the exact distance is important. They could spend the whole fight trying to find the correct distance, but that would be a huge waste of time and basically make their position in the party useless.
Click to expand...

And this is why rangers suck in merit parties because of distance. Because everything is dead so fast, there's no time to figure out the distance. So you just suck it up and do crap for damage, thus no one invites rangers.
With Distance, i can be in the correct position in seconds, and by doing so actualy keep up with the warriors, or even outdo them in specific camps (Mire)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top