"unofficial" talk of the legit ffxi windower mode.

What do you mean, they can't do anything about it in current TOS? You break the ToS by using a third party program, they can ban you on the spot if they want to. They're probably planning on releasing legit windower and then start actual enforcement.

Unless your account has no warnings, let someone else test out if they're going to start enforcement or not.
 
It means scanning the computer for anything without the player's permission is illegal and probably consdered hacking.
 
Khajit said:
It means scanning the computer for anything without the player's permission is illegal and probably consdered hacking.
Click to expand...
Excatly. Yeah, they could ban you for using the windower since it is breaking their rules, but the only way for them to detect that you're using the windower would involve methods that are illegal under the current TOS. They would have to change their TOS to allow them legal means to detect the windower.

This has been discussed many times already, in threads that you have participated in, how do you not remember this?
 
Yeah sorry I haven't been very FFXI focused lately.

But didn't someone say windower gives you slight uncontrollable speed bursts? If I wanted to ban windowers I'd just say their movements were off and that's how I detected them or some other bullshit.
 
Firestreak said:
Yeah sorry I haven't been very FFXI focused lately.

But didn't someone say windower gives you slight uncontrollable speed bursts? If I wanted to ban windowers I'd just say their movements were off and that's how I detected them or some other bullshit.
Click to expand...

And the fact that the person banned can prove that there's software illegally scanning the computer simply by not uninstalling ffxi?
 
Khajit said:
And the fact that the person banned can prove that there's software illegally scanning the computer simply by not uninstalling ffxi?
Click to expand...

That'd be the one. If my Processguard logs showed POL scanning my system, (which it isnt, actualy) and i was banned, I would contact them about it. And then I'd talk to my Lawyer about it.
 
Firestreak said:
Yeah sorry I haven't been very FFXI focused lately.

But didn't someone say windower gives you slight uncontrollable speed bursts? If I wanted to ban windowers I'd just say their movements were off and that's how I detected them or some other bullshit.
Click to expand...

It's been discussed for about 2 years now, it's not new information at all.
 
Well if you assume that by being able to prove FFXI is scanning your PC means you can effectively launch a lawsuit when banned, you might as well do any cheats you want because apparently they're not going to enforce their ToS out of fear of lawsuits. *sarcasm*
 
Firestreak said:
Well if you assume that by being able to prove FFXI is scanning your PC means you can effectively launch a lawsuit when banned, you might as well do any cheats you want because apparently they're not going to enforce their ToS out of fear of lawsuits. *sarcasm*
Click to expand...

No, because everything else is detected based on server interactions. The data that your PC sends to thier servers is fair game for them to examine, the issue comes from data that resides ON your PC. And it can become legal to scan your PC as soon as they change the ToS, but they've not done so, so they can't.
 
Honestly the whole scan your computer process memory is rather new concept and the court have not made a defining decision, it's gone both ways before

and it depends on what they scan too I suppose
 
The point I'm trying to make is this..

We can apparently prove they scan our PCs now.

Does that mean if we're banned we can sue, even if we were banned for fleehack? If the answer is yes, then this is all relative cause I guess everything's alright to do. If the answer is no, then can't they just say they banned us for fleehacking? Supposedly windower slightly speeds up your movement speed.(I notice actually a lot of people running a little bit faster than me, any other non-windower users notice that?) Just thinking what I'd do if I was Square and I wanted all third party programs gone.

I'd issue a warning that our "whatever task force" is getting ready to step up enforcement, specifying "modifications to client," temp ban a shitload of people who don't listen and permaban the ones who don't get the point. I'd never specify to them what they did that caused them banning. I'd never have GMs take them to jail or approach or talk to them. And if questioned I'd say "third party program," without any specifics.
 
Last edited:
Firestreak said:
The point I'm trying to make is this..

We can apparently prove they scan our PCs now.

Does that mean if we're banned we can sue, even if we were banned for fleehack? If the answer is yes, then this is all relative cause I guess everything's alright to do. If the answer is no, then can't they just say they banned us for fleehacking? Supposedly windower slightly speeds up your movement speed.(I notice actually a lot of people running a little bit faster than me, any other non-windower users notice that?) Just thinking what I'd do if I was Square and I wanted all third party programs gone.

I'd issue a warning that our "whatever task force" is getting ready to step up enforcement, specifying "modifications to client," temp ban a shitload of people who don't listen and permaban the ones who don't get the point. I'd never specify to them what they did that caused them banning. I'd never have GMs take them to jail or approach or talk to them. And if questioned I'd say "third party program," without any specifics.
Click to expand...

They dont need to specify bannings, or even ban you to take them to court. the fact that they scan it at all is enough to get to a cause hearing.

And i'm not confident enough that they even are scanning. My PG hasn't picked up anything yet.
 
Marajade said:
They dont need to specify bannings, or even ban you to take them to court. the fact that they scan it at all is enough to get to a cause hearing.

And i'm not confident enough that they even are scanning. My PG hasn't picked up anything yet.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind, too, they also have to send the information back for it to really be illegal. Hell, could have even been a test step to make sure that works on a widespread basis before they "flip the switch" so to speak, if it's even true.
 
just ran a digger on my wifes laptop this morning, and ill be damned it really does try to access launcher! looks like the time i fortold is almost here, Ill have some friends look into it more to see what exactly in launcher it tries to access but nice find on this!
 
So, from what I understand through the arguing and streaking...

Funky little program, that SE denies the existance of, directly looks for the windower (and probably FFXIAssist, anyone noticed?). SE can't do anything with the results, because that they're even doing this is illegal. It can be assumed that soon, they'll release a windower of their own, edit the TOS to make their little program legal, and do... something with the info it collects. I doubt they'd had out bans to every windower user, simply because that'd blow up (bare minimum) 20% of their NA userbase, to say nothing of Japan.

Sound about right?
 
except for the party where it just scans before you log in.... it makes no connection with the account, there's no banning to come of this...

can't ban based on IP, they'd be legally only able to ban your IP.
 
Marajade said:
No, because everything else is detected based on server interactions. The data that your PC sends to thier servers is fair game for them to examine, the issue comes from data that resides ON your PC. And it can become legal to scan your PC as soon as they change the ToS, but they've not done so, so they can't.
Click to expand...
I don't think even changing the ToS can help them.
26 No personal information may be collected by or for a public body unless

(a) the collection of that information is expressly authorized by or under an Act,

(b) that information is collected for the purposes of law enforcement, or

(c) that information relates directly to and is necessary for an operating program or activity of the public body.
Click to expand...
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/F/96165_01.htm#part3_division1

There are exceptions to these laws, but they mostly seem to pertain to critical cases where the individual is in danger and the information is absolutely necessary.

I'm not sure if SE counts as a "public body", I wouldn't suspect so. But I know little in the grand domain of legal crap.
 
FFXI is an international product and it doesn't quite work like a domestic product would. Either way, privacy though has laws, has no clear precedents. Everyone knows precedents > laws, when it comes to the legal system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top