update details Apr. 18, 2006

[Cleofis]

Don't want to seem totally stupid or that, but I haven't been reading much into any of the new jobs as none of them seemed to interest me, however reading that about PUP has got me wanting to do it. Any ideas what sub will be best?

 

[Rones]

If a mob goes yellow and you can't claim it yet, you could still attack it while it's still yellow (obviously considering that you can do other things like voke etc). You won't claim unless the mob DOES attack you.

Well in my example the bunny was still attacking me after my banishga. So all I needed to do was attack it.

That part of the update is probably there so you can't just progressively curebomb the claiming team's members to build massive amounts of hate for when the mob goes unclaimed.

What part? Unless they have /blockaid on, I'm pretty sure you still can build hate that way. This change only changes how you claim unclaimed mobs. It doesn't affect hate accumulation or the mobs actions in anyway. To get exclusive claim, you must have hate. That is all.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Don't want to seem totally stupid or that, but I haven't been reading much into any of the new jobs as none of them seemed to interest me, however reading that about PUP has got me wanting to do it. Any ideas what sub will be best?

All depends on what PUP's H2H rating is. Judging by how they don't get a Martial Arts trait until 25, it's not gonna be anything spectacular, maybe a B+ rating. Sub MNK for the first 10 levels, and then let the players figure it out.

If it turns out to be a real live melee job, WAR and MNK would be the best subs. If the Automaton turns out to be like, 90% of its damage... Sub WHM or BRD.

 

[Tagrineth]

I dunno, Rones, I just don't see how "Monsters won't attack players that can't attack them" fits into your interpretation.

 

[dedalius]

All depends on what PUP's H2H rating is. Judging by how they don't get a Martial Arts trait until 25, it's not gonna be anything spectacular, maybe a B+ rating. Sub MNK for the first 10 levels, and then let the players figure it out.

If it turns out to be a real live melee job, WAR and MNK would be the best subs. If the Automaton turns out to be like, 90% of its damage... Sub WHM or BRD.

Or COR, you seem to get about the same amount of bonus from /COR as /BRD, if not more.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Yea, I considered COR, but figured I shouldn't mention it as a sub until we know what the abilities actually do, aka hands-on experience.

 

[dedalius]

Well I figured since we were speculating about a job which we have no experience in either it would be OK.

 

[Devi]

Well, we know COR wont sub BRD :/
Says in the info, you can't get two die effect and a song up at once, only 2 effects. Wonder if COR and BRD will work well together or f' each other up.

 

[Khajit]

didn't they mention somewhere that /cor would be weaker than cor for the rolls? I think they mentioned that somewhere in the 10,000 page essay POL made on it.

 

[wolfskymoon]

Man i don't understand how that COrsair stuff works lol and the Blue stuff... Jeez =/

 

[dedalius]

Well, we know COR wont sub BRD :/
Says in the info, you can't get two die effect and a song up at once, only 2 effects. Wonder if COR and BRD will work well together or f' each other up.

One would think they work together since two BRDs will work together.

 

[Flameass]

I dunno, Rones, I just don't see how "Monsters won't attack players that can't attack them" fits into your interpretation.

Should have been writted monsters that attack players should be attackable by players... how hard is it to understand their little drawing and Rones' explanation.

 

[Rones]

I dunno, Rones, I just don't see how "Monsters won't attack players that can't attack them" fits into your interpretation.

The section where they say that is the same thing as they are explaining with all those pictures. Just go off the pictures explanation if you are lost. What they are trying to say is exactly what the pictures display.

Its poorly worded, but it means you won't get attacked by a claimed mob while still having hate. Example1: tank kiting and someone claims with dia when it goes unclaimed for a second. Example2: I cast banishga2 on a swarm of bunnies. No one can claim one of my bunnies unless they pull hate off the spell I cast, they would just remain unclaimed. Example3: HNM parties tank dies, hnm goes unclaimed while romping through the alliance's mages. Everyone there (in or out of the alliance) could hit the enemy, but no one outside the alliance can get claim unless they manage to pull hate.

The change only affects claiming, not hate or mob actions.

 

[Lavi]

"Time Remaining" "Minutes" "Seconds" "Reward:"

All very welcome additons

Lol yea...the THF adjustment that gives up damage increase from behind with PD up.....that's such a load of crap. Should get some sort of haste bonus while 2hred....increased damage from the back is pretty weak, unless it's like SA but trait....in which case good luck staying in for back.

I think the entire point of increasing damage while attacking from behind and using perfect dodge is so you actually get hate and have something to dodge. The idea wasn't to completely change the ability, but to make it useful in party situations. Using perfect dodge in a party currently is almost always a waste because the thief rarely ever gets hate to make dodging anything worthwhile. I think the increased damage will be mainly helpful if you have SA available for use and can make a single big hit for that huge hate spike and tank for the 30 second PD. If you don't have SA up and try using it, I'll bet you get increased damage on each hit much like the warrior 2hr, Mighty Strikes, but once you get hate, you lose all use of it which to me seems like the entire point. Although it does help a party in bad situation, it's not going to help the thiefs already poor invite rate.

 

[dedalius]

The section where they say that is the same thing as they are explaining with all those pictures. Just go off the pictures explanation if you are lost. What they are trying to say is exactly what the pictures display.

Its poorly worded, but it means you won't get attacked by a claimed mob while still having hate. Example1: tank kiting and someone claims with dia when it goes unclaimed for a second. Example2: I cast banishga2 on a swarm of bunnies. No one can claim one of my bunnies unless they pull hate off the spell I cast, they would just remain unclaimed. Example3: HNM parties tank dies, hnm goes unclaimed while romping through the alliance's mages. Everyone there (in or out of the alliance) could hit the enemy, but no one outside the alliance can get claim unless they manage to pull hate.

The change only affects claiming, not hate or mob actions.

Hmm this brings up the question:

What happens if the mob dies while unclaimed?

 

[Tagrineth]

But the line I'm referring to clearly refers to mob decision making.

Plus, if someone DOES manage to steal claim under the new system, of course the mob won't attack you anymore, they took hate in the process of taking the claim!

 

[Rones]

Hmm this brings up the question: What happens if the mob dies while unclaimed?

I was thinking the same, but it happens already. Cast poison2 on a low lvl enemy and then lose claim. It will die after a bit and no one gets drops.

Plus, if someone DOES manage to steal claim under the new system, of course the mob won't attack you anymore, they took hate in the process of taking the claim!

...That's the whole point. That line you are quoting is a summation of the effect of the change they describe in detail through the pictures.

 

[dedalius]

No tag, they will only take claim if it's yellow, and will only be able to claim if they have enough hate.

Imagine losing claim and nobody getting drops from HNMs.

 

[Mai Ikari]

Hmm this brings up the question:

What happens if the mob dies while unclaimed?

Then you laugh at the people who couldn't keep hate, or at the idiots who killed it while unclaimed. Or at yourself if you were one of the above. <.<

At any rate, with no claim, just like with Call For Help, there would be no drops or experience.

 

[Tagrineth]

...That's the whole point. That line you are quoting is a summation of the effect of the change they describe in detail through the pictures.

It doesn't make any sense that they'd state it explicitly though. I mean, seriously, no freaking duh the mob won't attack you anymore...

There's definitely more to it, but anything we say right now is purely academic.

Mainly, though, I'm also going by the fact that SE rarely says more than absolutely necessary in patch notes.