update details Apr. 18, 2006

[dedalius]

No what they're saying is that you can't claim something that someone else has more hate on you on. So if I have 500 hate points on Mob a, and you only have 200, but it goes yellow and you attack it, it won't be claimed for you.

Edit: but if I have 500, and you do something to get more than me, now at 600, then attack it you would get claim.

Basically if a mob goes unclaimed, the only group that can claim it is the one that has hate, or gets hate.

 

[Pompidou]

This new update helps aga farmers. Now if someone trains all the yagudo in giddeus with intent to kill at once, noone can pick off the hoard. This could make utsusemi fame easier or harder depending on which side of the hoard you're on.

 

[Tagrineth]

No what they're saying is that you can't claim something that someone else has more hate on you on. So if I have 500 hate points on Mob a, and you only have 200, but it goes yellow and you attack it, it won't be claimed for you.

Derr, that isn't the question.

The question is the next sentence after that one - "The conditions for claiming monsters has been changed in the following ways. [/b]Accordingly, players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.[/b]"

 

[Rones]

It doesn't make any sense that they'd state it explicitly though. I mean, seriously, no freaking duh the mob won't attack you anymore...

They say it to explain how you can't be mpked through claim stealing, which use to be quite a problem. They just aren't using our normal mmo lingo. They really are quite explicit in how it works. Consider the fact that everything is a translation from Japanese.

 

[dedalius]

This new update helps aga farmers. Now if someone trains all the yagudo in giddeus with intent to kill at once, noone can pick off the hoard. This could make utsusemi fame easier or harder depending on which side of the hoard you're on.

They only have linking hate, which is miniscule.

 

[Rones]

They only have linking hate, which is miniscule.

Unless the farmer throws out the occasionaly -ga while running around. Then they will have a decent chunk of hate.

 

[dedalius]

Unless the farmer throws out the occasionaly -ga while running around. Then they will have a decent chunk of hate.

Can't do that too much or all the mobs will die, kinda defeating the purpose.

 

[Tagrineth]

They say it to explain how you can't be mpked through claim stealing, which use to be quite a problem. They just aren't using our normal mmo lingo. They really are quite explicit in how it works. Consider the fact that everything is a translation from Japanese.

...but if the claim actually gets stolen, the mob won't attack you anyway.

It's not like claim switching automatically makes the mob's hate shift.

What if I were to take claim by overriding your enmity just slightly, then immediately Cure IV myself? Or you? Or pop Invincible (I know, bad choice, cause the damage would be negated anyway, but the hate draw is significant)?

The mob would start attacking me again. But the update says, quite explicitly, that a mob will not attack you if you cannot attack it.

 

[Halifirien]

Players will now occasionally accumulate fatigue after fishing up an item rather than a fish. Fatigue will be most noticeable after fishing up the following: coral fragment/rusty cap/rusty pick/devil manta

rofl. But the other fishing updates sound pretty crappy. Getting fatigue after letting a fish go?

They're throwing in extra fatigue to slow down the people who pull up and kill Devil Mantas in Kuftal to farm Angel Skins.

I'd say they're also adding in fatigue to slow down people who cancel catches they don't want in favor of bigger prey, like letting nebs and bream go so they only get grimmonites in the Sea Serpent Grotto, or stopping bluetail and calamary so you only catch squid.

That change makes sense to me. I can't wait to find some of the new fish.

Oh, and I'm stoked that WHM's Benediction cures status ailments. I'm also hoping the MPK change means people won't be able to steal Beastmaster claims.

 

[Rones]

...but if the claim actually gets stolen, the mob won't attack you anyway.

Now! That is only true because of this change. In the past you could still claim without getting hate and leave the mob attacking someone who couldn't fight it like I have described in three different examples.

What if I were to take claim by overriding your enmity just slightly, then immediately Cure IV myself? Or you? Or pop Invincible (I know, bad choice, cause the damage would be negated anyway, but the hate draw is significant)?

You couldn't take claim though unless it was unclaimed. If it was a claimed enemy, everything works like it always has. This is refering only to unclaimed enemies and how they are claimed. Reread the very first sentence:

"Monster behavior has been altered in the following ways to counter MPK issues:

The conditions for claiming monsters has been changed in the following ways. Accordingly, players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack."
Notice, they are refering to the mpk situation. Then they refer specifically to conditions for claiming. Then as a result under a claiming situation the player won't be attacked. I can not spell this out any simiplier. If you don't understand it, you'll just have to wait and see for yourself.

 

[Tagrineth]

Oh, and I'm stoked that WHM's Benediction cures status ailments. I'm also hoping the MPK change means people won't be able to steal Beastmaster claims.

Oh, snap, that's a good point. It probably won't work THAT well though because if a BST is probably going to lose claim on something, their pet probably has all the hate and the pet is the thing dying.

Now! That is only true because of this change. In the past you could still claim without getting hate and leave the mob attacking someone who couldn't fight it like I have described in three different examples.

Yeah, but, the "Accordingly" bit is literally just a direct zomgobvious blurb pointing out something painfully simple to understand - if you're a high enough level to understand claim stealing issues, you're also a high enough level to understand how hate works and that if you do not have hate, the mob won't attack you...

You couldn't take claim though unless it was unclaimed. If it was a claimed enemy, everything works like it always has. This is refering only to unclaimed enemies and how they are claimed. Reread the very first sentence:

Okay, let me go back and re-state exactly what I said in my last post, but this time with the tiny little explicit mention of "mob going unclaimed" for your benefit. Except with a slight modification because I made an error while typing it.

What if you were to take claim by overriding my enmity just slightly after something happens that causes the mob to go yellow, then immediately Cure IV myself? Or you? Or pop Invincible (I know, bad choice, cause the damage would be negated anyway, but the hate draw is significant)?

I'm sorry for skipping the italicised bit in the first place, I assumed you'd be able to fill that in since you're such a hyper genius and I'm so ignorant.

Regardless of my wording, though, you still bypassed my question.

If that situation were to happen, and I boosted my enmity past yours again after you take the unclaimed mob, do I get attacked? But that seems to contradict the update notes quite explicitly.

 

[Bajaratt]

It doesn't make any sense that they'd state it explicitly though. I mean, seriously, no freaking duh the mob won't attack you anymore...

There's definitely more to it, but anything we say right now is purely academic.

Mainly, though, I'm also going by the fact that SE rarely says more than absolutely necessary in patch notes.

Yeah, when they have the most hate, the mob will hit them, that's a given already. Everyone's just saying that you won't be able to claim until you are at the top of the mob's hate list, so stealing will become much mroe difficult or hopefully impossible. Because you will not be able to claim the mob unless you're on the top of the hate list, it will give the people currently fighting the mob a chance to regain claim before a steal if the mob should go unclaimed.

 

[Tagrineth]

Yeah, when they have the most hate, the mob will hit them, that's a given already. Everyone's just saying that you won't be able to claim until you are at the top of the mob's hate list, so stealing will become much mroe difficult or hopefully impossible. Because you will not be able to claim the mob unless you're on the top of the hate list, it will give the people currently fighting the mob a chance to regain claim before a steal if the mob should go unclaimed.

Yes, but the update explicitly says that a monster won't attack a player that can't attack it! Unless this is a gross mistranslation, I don't see how I can be the only person interpreting it that way!

 

[Elemmire]

I'm so looking forward to the PLD buffs the shield buffs are about to make Aegis broke beyond imagine

 

[Necrosis]

What could that TP adjustment mean...
If they messed with the TP floor, I'm going to be furious.

 

[Bajaratt]

Yes, but the update explicitly says that a monster won't attack a player that can't attack it! Unless this is a gross mistranslation, I don't see how I can be the only person interpreting it that way!

They're likely making changes so that if the mob gets stolen, that the people who originally had claim will not be attacked no matter their position on the mob's hate list unless they have claim. It wouldn't be all that hard for them to implement, just when they're running the check for who the mob should attack, they determine who has claim as well as the person with the most hate.

 

[Rones]

Yes, but the update explicitly says that a monster won't attack a player that can't attack it! Unless this is a gross mistranslation, I don't see how I can be the only person interpreting it that way!

You are taking the quote of context. Recheck my post where I quote the whole thing. That statement is in reference to mpk steals and claiming. You can't take it out of that context and apply it everywhere.

What if you were to take claim by overriding my enmity just slightly after something happens that causes the mob to go yellow, then immediately Cure IV myself? Or you? Or pop Invincible (I know, bad choice, cause the damage would be negated anyway, but the hate draw is significant)?

Well the obvious would happen. If you built up the most hate and it was unclaimed, you would get hate and get attacked. This isn't a counterdiction because you could attack the enemy at that point since it is unclaimed. If you pulled the most hate, you could even capture claim for yourself. I think what you really meant to say even after your second correction is what if you pulled hate while somone else has claim, in which case it would work like it always has.

 

[Tagrineth]

They're likely making changes so that if the mob gets stolen, that the people who originally had claim will not be attacked no matter their position on the mob's hate list unless they have claim. It wouldn't be all that hard for them to implement, just when they're running the check for who the mob should attack, they determine who has claim as well as the person with the most hate.

That's what I've been saying! - .-'

Well the obvious would happen. If you built up the most hate and it was unclaimed, you would get hate and get attacked. This isn't a counterdiction because you could attack the enemy at that point since it is unclaimed. If you pulled the most hate, you could even capture claim for yourself. I think what you really meant to say even after your second correction is what if you pulled hate while somone else has claim, in which case it would work like it always has.

No, my original quote accidentally reversed the situation. I set it up as me stealing claim, then went on to talk about getting hate back...

Anyway, you completely fucking missed my point.

If it goes UNCLAIMED, you manage to take hate by a narrow margin and CLAIM IT.

I then CURE IV myself, or you, or do something else that generates a good hate spike without a direct mob interaction.

The mob is STILL CLAIMED by you at this point.

The update says, quite explicitly, "players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack."

What will happen in my example? In the current system, I would be a player that is being attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.

 

[Khajit]

What could that TP adjustment mean...
If they messed with the TP floor, I'm going to be furious.

I've been wondering that too. Perhaps it will stop thf from giving hnm 10 billion tp so that I will be able to melee hnm.

Unfortunately I think it may be something designed to encourage mages to melle and gimp /nin subs. SE did say they wanted war to stop using /nin all the time. Not only that but SE has been releasing tons of melee weapons and gear for mages lately.

 

[CmdrFly]

What if I were to take claim by overriding your enmity just slightly, then immediately Cure IV myself? Or you? Or pop Invincible (I know, bad choice, cause the damage would be negated anyway, but the hate draw is significant)?

I think I'm thinking the same way Tag is. From what limited parts of this I actually understand, I think that, in the example you provide above, one of the following will happen:

1. The monster in question stops attacking everyone and lay dormant, until you or another player spikes hate on it.
2. You gain claim and the name goes red, the instant you override your opposition's enmity count on said mob.

I would prefer the latter, but I guess we find out tonight. Did I make sense? I'm so confused by all this... I need a joint and a sheep.