US standing in the world is about to get better

[Halifirien]

Really, so lets release all the Terrorists *sarcasm

Here's a working link to your video.

The idea isn't to "release all the Terrorists." The idea is to figure out if we have any evidence that they're actually terrorists and prosecute the right suspects, and release the ones who aren't terrorists instead of holding them all indefinitely.

In an ideal world, it would also mean throwing out any "evidence" obtained through torture and not simply picking and choosing the type of trial that guarantees a win because the Bush administration was too afraid to admit they were lazy and fucked everything up by cutting corners. I'm not holding my breath on that one, although the suspension of the military commission show trials is certainly a step in the right direction.

 

[Pompidou]

What do we do with the innocent prisoners? Send them home with "Oops, our bad! Sorry 'bout that." If they weren't terrorists before we held them for all these years, they aught to be after this. And, unless they're compensated insanely on release, I can't say I'd blame them for any vengeance they opted on. It's going to be a nightmare regardless, but unlawful and indefinite detention is even worse.

 

[Bustaballs]

In an ideal world, it would also mean throwing out any "evidence" obtained through torture and not simply picking and choosing the type of trial that guarantees a win because the Bush administration was too afraid to admit they were lazy and fucked everything up by cutting corners. I'm not holding my breath on that one, although the suspension of the military commission show trials is certainly a step in the right direction.

Under the understanding of how the American justice system is supposed to work, that's exactly what should happen. When police use illegal measures to obtain information that could otherwise prove a case, the evidence has to be thrown out. An example would be a police raid into a home without a search warrant and finding illegal narcotics. That can't be used against the defendant.

 

[Novolo]

I don't know about you, but if some one asked me if it was planning to kill mass amounts of people, and was intent on doing so no matter what, i wouldnt say shit... Some times you need to force it out...

 

[Ryuoho]

I don't know about you, but if some one asked me if it was planning to kill mass amounts of people, and was intent on doing so no matter what, i wouldnt say shit... Some times you need to force it out...

Or you get the wrong guy, and he/she conjures it up just so you'll stop torturing them...

Torture never works, period.

 

[Novolo]

Neither does being a nice guy, what do you think would happen if they got ahold of one of you? What do you think happend to those civilians they kidnapped in Iraq? You think they went easy on them.. hell no, they did far more than water boarding them...

Seriously what the fuck, if theres a lead to him being a terrorist... well oh well, actually on CNN there was an Article about how some one was released because he was taken "in the wrong"

Guess what he attacked an American Embassy resulting in multiple AMERICAN deaths... These guys don't give a FUCK about your rights so why do you care about theirs?

 

[Cerato]

Neither does being a nice guy, what do you think would happen if they got ahold of one of you? What do you think happend to those civilians they kidnapped in Iraq? You think they went easy on them.. hell no, they did far more than water boarding them...

Seriously what the fuck, if theres a lead to him being a terrorist... well oh well, actually on CNN there was an Article about how some one was released because he was taken "in the wrong"

Guess what he attacked an American Embassy resulting in multiple AMERICAN deaths... These guys don't give a FUCK about your rights so why do you care about theirs?

Because I like to think we're better than terrorists.

 

[Skaw]

Guess what he attacked an American Embassy resulting in multiple AMERICAN deaths... These guys don't give a FUCK about your rights so why do you care about theirs?

It's called being the bigger man. Last I checked our Declaration of Independence doesn't say "only all Americans are created equal." People have basic human rights. Just because some people choose to ignore that doesn't mean a country that is founded on that concept should as well. It's hypocritical.

I'm guessing you're the type that says we should turn the Middle East in to a parking lot/glass sheet everytime something happens there. Am I close?

 

[Halifirien]

These guys don't give a FUCK about your rights so why do you care about theirs?

I hate to be the one to explain this to you since it's the sort of thing children learn in school, but our entire society and system of government is founded on the basic idea that just because the government accuses you of something, it doesn't mean you actually did it. That's why we have things like trials, where evidence is presented, and you're either convicted or released based on the evidence. Seriously, if you get a call from Jeff Foxworthy, it's in your best interests to hang up.

It may not be a perfect system, and sometimes bad people get away, but it's infinitely better than scooping people up at random and detaining them indefinitely and torturing them to prove what a big man you are.

There are more than enough intelligence officials out there who'll tell you that "being a nice guy" will get more information than waterboarding, sleep deprivation or hypothermia ever will. The torture stuff we did wasn't about getting information; it was about punishing and humiliating "the enemy."

 

[Sharpe]

People like Novolo shouldn't be in the armed forces, they give the decent troops a bad name. No wonder there's torture going on by Allied forces in the theatres of war when you have idiotic people like him in the armed forces.

 

[Ryuoho]

People like Novolo shouldn't be in the armed forces, they give the decent troops a bad name. No wonder there's torture going on by Allied forces in the theatres of war when you have idiotic people like him in the armed forces.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and to speak it. And if he wants to be there, then he should be there.

Besides, what's the point of living if you don't learn a few things along the way?

 

[Bustaballs]

Because I like to think we're better than terrorists.

Bingo.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer."

 

[Dayner]

i just watched the interview with Obama about improving ties with Muslim world , its good start , but he is still not trustful by arab world , still its good start

 

[Bustaballs]

i just watched the interview with Obama about improving ties with Muslim world , its good start , but he is still not trustful by arab world , still its good start

What exactly do you feel is a good start about it? I feel like most of us could take your opinion a little more seriously than most.

I personally don't see much difference in his policies with the Middle East outside of admitting that he would have diplomatic negotiations with foreign leaders instead of just accusing everyone he doesn't like of being a terrorist. That's impressive compared to the last administration but the whole "take no options off the table" shit scares the fuck out of me. In regard to the occupation, he's not removing troops from the region. He's just transferring them to a different part o the region. I'd really like to get your opinion.

 

[Morwen]

Neither does being a nice guy, what do you think would happen if they got ahold of one of you? What do you think happend to those civilians they kidnapped in Iraq? You think they went easy on them.. hell no, they did far more than water boarding them...

Seriously what the fuck, if theres a lead to him being a terrorist... well oh well, actually on CNN there was an Article about how some one was released because he was taken "in the wrong"

Guess what he attacked an American Embassy resulting in multiple AMERICAN deaths... These guys don't give a FUCK about your rights so why do you care about theirs?

You're fighting for my country?

 

[Dayner]

he did say he will take Arabs leaders word seriously then the past U.s leader's , but that alone cant be isn't enough , almost all arab frustrating come from that US government just trun the other ear when its come to Israel /Palestinian/Arab conflict

as for transferring troops from Iraq , we have mixed feeling about this , some say its going to be better which i dont agree on

 

[Bustaballs]

he did say he will take Arabs leaders word seriously then the past U.s leader's , but that alone cant be isn't enough , almost all arab frustrating come from that US government just trun the other ear when its come to Israel /Palestinian/Arab conflict

as for transferring troops from Iraq , we have mixed feeling about this , some say its going to be better which i dont agree on

I don't agree on it either, man. And you're right about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We constantly fund both sides but we only give moral support to one side. The Israeli lobby in the USA has a very tight grip. It's unfortunate. The proper thing to do would be to stop giving aid of any sort to either side. The USA is similar to your country in the understanding that it's highly religious and focused majorly on one single religion (Christianity by 78.4%) and as a result, many of the more extreme religious people bring their own religious opinions into who we should support.

 

[Khajit]

I think the biggest problem with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is that noone outside of the middle east generally knows what's going on there.

They get misinformed and think that it's some thousands year old conflict(or that israel as a nation has been there nonstop for the last several millenia) when up intil the 20th century the middle east was the main/only place where jews werent persecuted(cmon, you know europe loved persecuting them) and not only that but they moved out of the area that is currently Israel 2000 years ago. Israel got formed via making the people already living there(the palestinians) flee in terror ( over 750,000 of em from raping, beatings,murder, and having entire towns leveled{Dier Yassin is a notable example}) and declaring the "miraculously cleared" land Israel.
The fact of the matter is that there wont be any middle eastern peace anytime soon.
Israel simply wants to bomb more arabs to expand territory and will constantly cry they were threatened by a small force of people when they are capable of destroying the entire region which gives them the right to fire at people indiscriminately.


Another group has to deal with attempting to making peace with a violent and aggressive force. For example. Gamal Abdul nasser came dangerously close to negotiating peice with Israel in 1954 so Israel made a terrorist bombing on an AMERICAN base in egypt. They tried to frame the egyptians for it but got caught. either way this stalled negotiations which meant that the possibilty of war to aqquire new land was still availiable. ben gurion had just stepped down as prime minister and he was the main guy behind the terrorist bombing. The person negotiating peace was the new prime minister Moshe Sharrat. This agrression is a recurring theme.
The rest have to live with being bombed or have growing frustration at how everything is.(which leads to the terrorist tactics you see today. Ironically they learned said tactics from Israel and the fact that they were on the recieving end of them. Guess who invented the letter bomb?)

 

[smalls]

and not only that but they moved out of the area that is currently Israel 2000 years ago. Israel got formed via making the people already living there(the palestinians) flee in terror ( over 750,000 of em from raping, beatings,murder, and having entire towns leveled{Dier Yassin is a notable example}) and declaring the "miraculously cleared" land Israel.
The fact of the matter is that there wont be any middle eastern peace anytime soon.
Israel simply wants to bomb more arabs to expand territory and will constantly cry they were threatened by a small force of people when they are capable of destroying the entire region which gives them the right to fire at people indiscriminately.

why did the jews "move out of the area" and the palestinians were the ones forced to flee in terror. and did we forget the jews agreed to have the country split in two but the arabs decided to start a war that they couldn't win instead. or what about just last month when a ceasefire was agreed upon and the very next day, hamas was back at it. and yet for some reason, time and time again the jews allowed the palestinieans to live in gaza.

how can you possibly accuse isreal of wanting to expand its territory, if any thing they seem to take some sick pleasure in giving their territory to their enemies. like you said they are capable of destroying the entire region, you would think that they would have gained a little land since their formation if that was their goal.

if anything isreal has show great restraint. if it was me i would have ended that failed attempt of humanity called the middle east.

 

[Khajit]

yeah. great idea to have the country split in two. When it was first proposed palestinians took up 90% of the population. at the "creation" of israel it was 66%. Please tell me how giving half the land to 1/3 of the people That didnt even live there more than 30 years previously is a fair solution. Not only that but to top it off the amount of jewish people in the region was only because of immigration funded by the zionists. They also liked to portray palestine as an empty place(as in they made sure not to tell anyone that the land has been steadily occupied for the last 10,000 years and as such there isnt free land for the taking)
And by fair restraint do you mean like the time israel accused egypt of a sneak attack because Egypt had tanks on EGYPTIAN soil and attacked them first?(after israel did that terrorist bombing on the US base there and tried to frame Egypt they got a tad suspicious about whether israel really wanted peace so it was a good idea to make sure they started working on defending themselves at the time)
let's think about that for a second. A military force capable of beating the entire region in a fight at ONCE, was afraid that a small country would attack it. not only that but by beleiveing that you're assuming that egypt was retarded enough to actually willingly attack a superior force that could blow them off the map without breaking a sweat.
While you're at it why dont you start saying that America was right when they entered Iraq to stop al quaeda terrorists/WMDs that werent there (and quite obviously werent)and that sounds like perfectly logical reasoning.
Go to the library. Open up the Encylopedia brittannica. Read the part on the history of palestine.


not only that but the only reason the UN LET israel become a country officially was under the condition of either letting the palestinians back onto thier land or providing reparations. Guess what? That hasnt happened yet and it's been decades. Instead we get to see bombs given to palestinians.
DId you know about ariel sharon's Unit 101? Want to know what thier task was? To sneak across the border and murder as many Arab as they could for fun. He's known to have berated his officers for not murdering 2 old men when given the oppurtunity.. on october 14~15 1953 his unit snuck across the border and murdered 53 lebanese and palestinian civilians. yes. please go on about how Israel us such a peaceful country.