Use the Windower? Watch what you say

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Tyran said:
Pretty piccies
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I know the argument is what SE attended and all that rot, but I'm sure you could do all of that and more using WoW's freely scriptable gui. 8)

You can use the windower for cheating, no one cares though. Everyone you're arguing with just wants to be able to multi task as their computer was intended.

Really, the creator of the windower should have kept that as a seperate mod to his plugin system. Would you still bitch about it because it'd still be "third party" though?

AC Decal comment
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And decal for AC may allowed for more botting(I don't remember it allowing for you to tell what items a mob would drop, but I didn't play with it too much) but it also removed a little bit of tedium from self buffing yourself. Casting armor, protect fire/cold/lighting/slashing/bludgeoning/peircing, war/item/creature/life magic aptitude, various weapon skill buffs, stat buffs on your self and fire/cold/lighting/slashing/bludgeoning/piercing bane, imp on your armor manually was quite tedious if you ask me.

But I'm just a crazy mango berry.
 
I have to say I actually agree with tyran, maybe you aren't cheating with windower and it is making your game easier because now you have an escape from the boredom that ff brings sometimes. The point is that SE made the game the way it was for a reason. If it is not good enough for you than you really shouldn't be playing. It sucks that you are getting spoiled from using it but you sholdn't of been using it in the 1st place. SE said that its not allowed than don't. Speeding on a road is not allowed and people do it anyway because they think the speedlimit should be faster and when they speed they get caught and getting a speeding ticket, they never bitch to the cops that they should raise the speeding limit because they personnaly think its ok. The point is SE knows what they are doing and to help prevent as much cheating as possible they won't allow anything.

Also to those that think that there was still cheating before windower was out so windower didn't make any difference. There were other windower type programs out before someone decided to let it go public. Windower is a base for letting someone actually cheat, how hard do you think it would be to actually do some research and acquire cheating programs like bots to use to your advantage,. The bottom line is its not allowed and shouldn't be used.
 
zeroc0ol said:
I have to say I actually agree with tyran, maybe you aren't cheating with windower and it is making your game easier because now you have an escape from the boredom that ff brings sometimes. The point is that SE made the game the way it was for a reason. If it is not good enough for you than you really shouldn't be playing. It sucks that you are getting spoiled from using it but you sholdn't of been using it in the 1st place. SE said that its not allowed than don't. Speeding on a road is not allowed and people do it anyway because they think the speedlimit should be faster and when they speed they get caught and getting a speeding ticket, they never bitch to the cops that they should raise the speeding limit because they personnaly think its ok. The point is SE knows what they are doing and to help prevent as much cheating as possible they won't allow anything.

Also to those that think that there was still cheating before windower was out so windower didn't make any difference. There were other windower type programs out before someone decided to let it go public. Windower is a base for letting someone actually cheat, how hard do you think it would be to actually do some research and acquire cheating programs like bots to use to your advantage,. The bottom line is its not allowed and shouldn't be used.
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So, if I was to read a book, watch tv, or play on my PS2 while I'm staring at my MH wall, I'm cheating and getting an advantage over everyone else? Rather than speeding on a road, it's like bringing a book with you when you go to a car mechanic or something of that nature. The game isn't any easier, I'm just doing something productive with the time spent wasted in town. I don't think they had multi-hour waiting times to party as part of their marketing strategy, if they did, I certainly missed it.
 
Bajaratt?!? I don't think those examples really relate if you examing the pics again.... I'm on the fence about cheating but its DEFINATELY an unfair advantage over us PS2 users. Clearly a windower user will find a coffer before me and have a large advantage over me in Ballista as well... You gotta tell me you can see that :shock:
 
Bajaratt said:
The game isn't any easier, :shock: I'm just doing something productive with the time spent wasted in town. I don't think they had multi-hour waiting times to party as part of their marketing strategy, if they did, I certainly missed it.
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The game isnt any easier :shock: Can you view pics on the board or do they they show up as little x's. Of course ite easier. Your arguing with the wrong one here.
 
Tyran said:
Bajaratt said:
The game isn't any easier, :shock: I'm just doing something productive with the time spent wasted in town. I don't think they had multi-hour waiting times to party as part of their marketing strategy, if they did, I certainly missed it.
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The game isnt any easier :shock: Can you view pics on the board or do they they show up as little x's. Of course ite easier. Your arguing with the wrong one here.
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Yes, the game is easier IF YOU CHEAT. Just using the windower for the SOLE purpose of having XI run in a window, which I'm sure the vast majority of people use it for, doesn't make the game one iota easier.

No, you're the one who's arguing the wrong points. The pictures you posted was of people who were cheating, and once again, you're like a broken record. No one is saying that cheating is not a bad thing, the group that you're failing to even respond to is the people that only use it so they can use their computer at the same time. You have yet to prove anything other than cheating is a bad thing, something which everyone already knew, congrats.
 
tyran.. please stop complaining how its cheating to play a game on a window... ppl use windower for their convenience.. ie: multitask (aim.. winamp.. etc) i do understand the NEW features it provides and its wrong..to me, its not really cheating.. think of it as an enhancment to the game.... we all know its fucked up that some of us cant use it (ps2 ppl).. but damn, playing on a damn window???? omg, stop being a pussy..
 
Dude come on multitasking BS If you dont have time to play dont play. If you need to listen to winamp use your MP3 player and headphones or a CD player. We can argue all night. Why do you need to alter game play why do you need to multitask?
 
Tyran said:
Dude come on multitasking BS If you dont have time to play dont play. If you need to listen to winamp use your MP3 player and headphones or a CD player. We can argue all night. Why do you need to alter game play why do you need to multitask?
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What if Microsoft said that DirectX shouldn't be used to force fullscreen on an application, but Square kept FFXI forcing fullscreen?
 
Thanks given to The Funch Scholar (of alla)


People are arguing about whether or not the windower is acceptable for use with FFXI. Here's why I say no:

From what I understand, the Windower reads memory locations client-side. The general public doesn't know what the heck a memory location is; it's something that usually (but not always) programmers and other computer-knowledgeable people know about. Therefore a program is needed to read these memory locations, which also change whenever a FFXI update is released ("The windower is broken again!"). Whoever does dev on the windower has to therefore analyze FFXI and poke around in the memory that the program is using to find the new memory location.

I found definitions for "reverse engineering" from various sites:

Wikipedia: "Reverse engineering (RE) is the process of taking something (a device, an electrical component, a software program, etc.) apart and analyzing its workings in detail, usually with the intention to construct a new device or program that does the same thing without actually copying anything from the original.[...]Reverse engineering of software can be accomplished by various methods. The two main groups of reverse engineering is analysis through observation of information exchange (most prevalent in protocol reverse engineering), disassembly using a disassembler, or decompilation using a decompiler."

ChillingEffects.org: "Reverse engineering is the general process of analyzing a technology specifically to ascertain how it was designed or how it operates.[...]The reverse engineering process allows researchers to understand [...] how a program works"

IBM Systems Journal article: "When a system is reverse engineered, it is examined, documented, modeled, analyzed, and understood, in order to better inform subsequent efforts."

Carnegie Mellon University Software Engineering Institute: "The process of analyzing a system's code, documentation, and behavior to identify its current components and their dependencies to extract and create system abstractions and design information. The subject system is not altered; however, additional knowledge about the system is produced."

Based on these definitions -- multiple sources basically saying the same thing -- the windower would be considered reverse engineering FFXI. Mellon's definition is the most damning and fits this situation almost completely: the dev(s) analyzed the behavior of FFXI (where it stores what data in memory), identified that TP data of other party members existed, created design information (which led to programming a tool to enable people to read that data), and produced additional knowledge about FFXI without altering FFXI (it can get the TP data but cannot change it on the server).

The FFXI Software Agreement, which "you were required to accept and execute prior to installing and playing the Game" along with the FFXI User Agreement, "will commence when you indicate your acceptance of its terms and conditions and proceed to install the Licensed Software" and "will immediately and automatically terminate upon your breach of any provision of this Agreement or the Member Agreement" (Section 2.2, Term and Termination), includes the following restriction under Section 2.4:
" To the maximum extent permitted by law, you may not:
(a) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Licensed Software;"
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Fitz, I respected that whole "please stop because (etc...)" til you just called him a "pussy" out of nowhere. Seriously, what the hell. =\


Personally, I can see why SE disallows windowing..mainly, if FFXI can be windowed, it allows alot of otherwise malicious programs to be run that may require FFXI to be open first (bots, sniffers, and other things may hafto be opened after FFXI to work properly)

No, not everyone will do it (bot, packet sniff, etc), and yes, it is unfair to the people who just wanna do other stuff while LFP, but bluntly put, it being window-able leaves alot more open possibilities to stuff that'd leave FFXI a worse-off place in the end....granted, this isn't the cause of 100% of bots and sniffers and such, but if windower didn't exist and it cut down bot/sniffer/etc effectiveness by a huge amount, would it still be such an outrage that you can't do other stuff while LFP? Personally, if I get sick of LFP, I just go do something else or log off of FFXI and come back at some other time..
 
Tyran said:
Dude come on multitasking BS If you dont have time to play dont play. If you need to listen to winamp use your MP3 player and headphones or a CD player. We can argue all night. Why do you need to alter game play why do you need to multitask?
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There's a difference between not having time to play and not wanting to waste a couple hours in my MH just staring at the walls waiting on an invite. I don't play when I only have an hour before I'm doing something in real life; but when I have all day to play, I don't enjoy waiting for hours on end to play the game. Until they come up with something free and worthwhile to do while I'm just standing around, my windower works perfectly fine.
 
But Windower, the basic function, has nothing to do with FFXI. It affects DirectX, by preventing the DirectX Coding that causes fullscreen applications to be fullscreen.
 
Skaw said:
But Windower, the basic function, has nothing to do with FFXI. It affects DirectX, but preventing the DirectX Coding that causes fullscreen applications to be fullscreen.
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OMG Dude it does have something to do with FFXI its called "Reverse Engineering". This alows you to read data that your not supposed to be able to read.
 
Tyran said:
Skaw said:
But Windower, the basic function, has nothing to do with FFXI. It affects DirectX, but preventing the DirectX Coding that causes fullscreen applications to be fullscreen.
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OMG Dude it does have something to do with FFXI its called "Reverse Engineering". This alows you to read data that your not supposed to be able to read.
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OMG Dude it needs to learn how to read.

The basic function, I'm not talking about the added features. I have no use for them. I've learned lay out of areas, departure times based on game clock, and other assorted parterns to that effect JUST BY PLAYING THE GAME. And if I felt the need to know someones TP, I could calculate it just by what weapon their using, and wether they hit or miss.
 
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