VANG THE WANG PRINCE ?ITCH

[meeze]

ranger ranged attack goes off no matter what our daggers are doing, its like casting a spell, you dont have to wait for you weapon to swing in order to cast.

 

[Rones]

If an entire group is at 100% spead at all the time and you haste one sixth of that group by 10%, the entire group's speed increases 1.66%, assuming that Haste increases the player's speed by 10%.

Might I just ask what the heck is player speed?! Their is weapon delay which I already described to you and does not match your numbers, but that doesn't seem to be what you are refering too. Haste speeds up weapon delay and recast timers on spells and a few abilties. Nothing else. It does not make you move faster, think faster, cast faster, or regain mp faster.

You people see prices, I see the slot value, and attainability. These rings are free. Start making friends that want to help you.. Same thing goes for the rest of good WHM gear, most of it comes from BCNMs. THe only thing I think of as a 'difficult' item to get are Serket rings and Vivian rings.

I said that as a side comment because it can ballon into a very large discussion all of its own. To keep it brief I was stating that 1mill gil has better equipment uses than astrals. Raise 3, dark staff, light staff, death earrings, vermillion cloak, etc. all would be better uses before astrals. Sure if money is no object grab them or better yet serket.

However I have to highly disagree that anything in this game is free. I always detested the idea of whm's getting erase for free during bcnm's. I have always been under the opinion everything gets split evenly and you can put your share toward erase or whatever the heck you want.

I know it's possible, because my WHM and RDM have no problems keeping everyone hasted.

A whm and rdm together should have no trouble whatso ever hasting 3 people, I agree with that. Like I said I can do 2 people decently, but its the third bymself that puts me over the edge. But your early statement that everyone in the party should be hasted is not feasible nor practical short of whm+brd+rdm backline.

As far as rangers being Hasted, the ones I party with have no issue, unless I can't keep up TP wise and the Mobs die before I can get 100TP. If a Ranger is using his Daggers to time something? Idk... But I rarely hear any problems about Rangers being hasted except the mobs die too quick and thier Skillchain partners can't keep up.

Its not that haste hurts them as much as it's pointless use of mp. Like I already said rng's get the vast majority of tp from ranged attacks and not their daggers. Surely some rng's could support that statement. This leads then back to my statement that haste is an mp inefficent spell for a mage to use. If he gets little to no return on his 40 mp every 3 mins, that is inefficient. Sure if haste cost 5-10 mp there would be no reason not to haste him, but at an additional cost of 1,200mp an hour it is foolish.

And I know you don't time your Haste to exactly when the point to where the spell is cast right at the moment that it fades.

Your right, that's why, just like rdm's, I'll occasionally recast it earlier so it doesn't wear while I'm resting. This results in additional mp cost that I didn't factor in because it can swing both ways. :wink:

 

[Phraust]

I like you. You think.

kk...

I guess it comes down to one of two arguments from my camp then.
1) Got the MP, and the benefit of having Haste outweighs the benefit of having the extra MP, basically use what you got, if you got it.
2) Whm to Blm MP ratio is alway kept even Via Hasting, in normal circumstances. If your BLM runsout of MP, it's kinda pointless for the WHM to have MP if they aren't using it.

So all other arguments, be them good ones, are kinda irrelevant. Which brings me to the original statement I made to Blinxx which was, if your other mages are runnign out of MP too quickly, it would be pointless to have added MP. However, if you do have it... You can use it on other things.

To your statement on the BCNMs being split equally, I agree, however, I pretty much got everythign I need till the end of the game save for a Dragon Harness, and a couple other things... So if I do a BCNM it's likely to be done as a favor to others. Mainly because some of the items in the BCNMs are rather hard to get and given the opprotunity I think every one should get what they need before monetary compensation. Basically what I am saying is I would like to/have only done BCNMs for items people want/need... I would rather farm/hunt for money... It's harder to get seals, I would hate to blow my chances on getting an item that can be attained through BCNM for money...
Anyways... Astrals are the second best thing for the slot and are actually pretty easy to get, was the only thing I was trying to say.... I Might be a bit bias, conidering i had mine since the dawn of time and bought them both for... shit... I really shouldn't say... 80,000 G ea. from the Auction house. Yes, that number is the real thing... At the time it took me 4 hours to get 80k, now it takes me less than an hour to get that. If anyone really wanted to, they could get an Astral Ring in a day, by any of several different ways. It's a moot point.

Do rangers or do they not, have the weapon delay on thier Ranged weapons reduced as well by having Haste cast on them?

Player Speed: Any and all delays incurred by the player I.E. weapon delay, Cast times, job ability delays, recast times. Basically anything you have to wait for. I do know that Haste affects Weapon delays, and recast times, two MAJOR bottlenecks when fighting.

 

[Rones]

Player Speed: Any and all delays incurred by the player I.E. weapon delay, Cast times, job ability delays, recast times. Basically anything you have to wait for. I do know that Haste affects Weapon delays, and recast times, two MAJOR bottlenecks when fighting.

Like I already said many times, haste does not affect cast times. Its affect on weapon delay is 12.5% in this formulae: Weapon's Delay * (1/(1+(Haste %/100))) = New Delay. Recast time is not a bottleneck for anyone except maybe rdm's with refresh in mp heavy parties, and even then not usually an issue.

1) Got the MP, and the benefit of having Haste outweighs the benefit of having the extra MP, basically use what you got, if you got it.
2) Whm to Blm MP ratio is alway kept even Via Hasting, in normal circumstances. If your BLM runsout of MP, it's kinda pointless for the WHM to have MP if they aren't using it.

The flaws with these two points are easiest to understand by anyone with much experience playing whm or rdm. To melee it might be a little less visible so I'll try to explain.

First, just because a healer has mp doesn't mean he should blow it. That same idea could be used to support whm's wasting all their excess mp casting banish and nukes which we all know would be bad. A whm always saves every mp he can to either help chain more, be ready earlier for the next chain (optimially be always ready for a next chain with no downtime like I usually am), or to be prepared for emergencies.

Second, a party doesn't stop when the blm runs out of mp. Unlike a whm, blms can rest just about whenever they want. So they are much less constrained by mp. Parties can keep chaining and fighting even when the blm or rdm runs low on mp as long as the whm still has mp.

The key to being a healer is to always keep your mp up to avoid downtime. A blm and rdm (not acting has healer) do not play by these same rules. Thus trying to parallel their mp will only result in causing extra downtime.

Do rangers or do they not, have the weapon delay on thier Ranged weapons reduced as well by having Haste cast on them?

Rng's ranged weapon delay is not affected by haste. Their daggers however are, but since 95% of rng's tp comes from rnged attacks, they gain insignifigant extra tp from having haste.

Astrals are the second best thing for the slot and are actually pretty easy to get...If anyone really wanted to, they could get an Astral Ring in a day, by any of several different ways. It's a moot point.

You do realize astral ring's are 500k now right? Now how do you propose mages who don't have a lvl 100 craft earn 500k in a single day of playing and please don't say farming. This is also competly avoiding the point I made that astrals should be on a mages list, but on the very bottom after many other items and given low priority if the mage doesn't have the money. 1million gill for 10 mp (vs electrums)? I don't even use the bottom 250 of my mp tank while exping, that extra 10 mp wouldn't make a bit of difference.

 

[meeze]

astrals drop in lvl 20 bcnm, not that hard to get.

 

[bigdaddy]

Phrast no sadly I was told that actual +MND on gear help while resting mp You sound very knowlegable about a mages job and I think I would further take your advice rather than that of a 75 Bard lol. Jungle Stone is also something i have been drooling over hell what mage wouldnt want to have 93875937 mp, i know i would Thanks to your helpful info I plan to do some serious adjusting to my equipment

Thank you :lol:

 

[Fellina]

Indeed, I believe that a level 20 SMN can solo one of the BCNM 20's that drops astrals. I don't know the exact details, but theoretically a WHM who has a levelled SMN sub could just get his own astral no sweat.

 

[Rones]

If it was as easy as you say astrals wouldn't be worth 500k. Not only is the bcnm fairly difficult, but astrals aren't very common drops. Go try soloing it and then tell us how easy it is. 8)

Even if astrals were easy to get, you would still be better off selling them and putting that 1mill gil into other gear and spells first. Astrals should be near the bottom of your list. I still don't understand all the people I see wearing astrals and +5mp earrings. They could just use death earrings and electrums for the exact same mp amount and 800k gil cheaper.

 

[CubsWoo]

Indeed, I believe that a level 20 SMN can solo one of the BCNM 20's that drops astrals. I don't know the exact details, but theoretically a WHM who has a levelled SMN sub could just get his own astral no sweat.

I don't think Shooting Fish (the BCNM20 a SMN can solo) drops Astrals - if it did, you'd see me and a lot of other SMNs flooding the market with them.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, though.

 

[Lanien]

Indeed, I believe that a level 20 SMN can solo one of the BCNM 20's that drops astrals. I don't know the exact details, but theoretically a WHM who has a levelled SMN sub could just get his own astral no sweat.

I don't think Shooting Fish (the BCNM20 a SMN can solo) drops Astrals - if it did, you'd see me and a lot of other SMNs flooding the market with them.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, though.

There is a level 20 BCNM that drops Astrals. It is the one with 3 bats in Ghelsba Outpost. I guess if the Summoner is extremely good and can somehow get in 2 Astral Flows before being ripped to shreds, which is highly unlikely, they can solo it. 3 Summoners, even then that is pushing it. The best setup for this is 3 BST/WHM. I have done it with 3 DRG/WHM though. I highly doubt that this BCNM is soloable. If it was, the price wouldn't be where it is now.

 

[meeze]

the astrals drop off the bats bcnm.

2 bsts and whm can do, any combo of 3 mnks/sam/smn/war can pretty much take it down with hi pots and such. no astrals are not a common drop, but if you want astrals for free give it a shot.

 

[Yoshindor]

Blinxx = Raceist BITCH!

I'd just like to add this raceist peice of twat said to me "I'm glad we bombed your country"

I'm very upset about this! And quite frankly I hope she burns in hell for it!

 

[Rones]

Referring to Blinxx?

 

[Yoshindor]

Referring to Blinxx?

yes!

 

[Lanien]

Wow. What a bitch. Kill her now or later? Only racism I like is when it's against dumb fucks like her. Then it's not racism though I guess, unless we are going to classify her type as a new race. Which I guess is feasible if you look at if from my point of view.

 

[Xerius]

okok

I thought MND was one of the more useless stats.

EXCEPT FOR:

1.) adding dmg to CHI BLAST
2.) Helping WHM spells stick
3.) spell resist?

in that case...

would having a RDM that has INT/MND gear to switch around be better than a WHM specializing in MND? RDM is more built towards enfeebling anyways no?

Oh MND also boosts cure dmg which isnt reallyl that helpful at all.

In addition, so much -enmity gear doesnt really help, at least in my experience. as a 58 PLD, i can almost gauruntee that a WHM has almost NEVER pulled hate offa me. Only ones that have are DD that have to get hate for SATA or BLMs who use Ancient Magic bursts, but i have cover for that.

I personally would put more money into increasing mp.

 

[Phraust]

Astrals went up in price because they disapeared for a good long time before anyone figured out where they were.

1) Astrals were in Castle O
2) People bitched about thieves Coffer Camping.
3) Astrals were removed form Castle O on the December update.
4) Astrals disapeared, and were rumored to be in Den Of Rancor.
5) Astrals were sought after in Den of Rancor, but never found.
6) Astral rings prices skyrocketed.
7) Astrals were discovered in a BCNM 20.
8) Somone went to sell one form the BCNM and saw the price was well into the hundreds of thousands of Gil.
9) Seeing an oprotunity to make money, said BCNMer sold thier Ring for Hundreds of thousands of gil, and the trend continued.

What you can ask yourself, Why would somone pay 1,000,000 G for an Extra 10 MP? Why do people pay an extra 200%-3,000% for HQ items? Why would somone pay an extra 15,000,000 G for 3 more accuracy and ranged accuracy? Because some people are just not interested in being medeocre. Every one likes to make excuses... "Oh it's too expensive" or "Oh I really don't need that." you KNow what? they are excuses... You really would like the best right? What is your hurry? Why don't you get it? Look at Vang. As annoying as that cornfed is, he really isn't wrong. What is the point of playing really? Get more gear to fight mobs to get more gear to fight more mobs.... Anyways... That 10 MP may not matter to you, but to somone else it is a sign of accomplishement. When you see one White mage next to another, one has Electrum Rings, the other Astrals, you can probably guess which one has more dedication to the game, and which one finds some of the game dynamics to be a chore.

And yes... you could get Either one of the rings in a day, or 500-600k to buy them in a day. All it takes is a tiny bit of intelligence, a little patience, and some good friends.

 

[Kelsilv]

I highly doubt that this BCNM is soloable. If it was, the price wouldn't be where it is now.

I have read a story about a lone BST who soloed the 3 bats BCNM. However, it cost him a few deaths and more gil in potions and items than he actually made back from the loot.

 

[Rones]

would having a RDM that has INT/MND gear to switch around be better than a WHM specializing in MND? RDM is more built towards enfeebling anyways no?

Yes, a rdm would do better. Rdm have a much higher enfeebling skill cap. Only time a whm needs +mnd is when partied with a brd and needs to enfeeble.

Every one likes to make excuses... "Oh it's too expensive"

Since you have selective reading let me point you toward where I already addressed this:

Astrals should be near the bottom of your list

Yes Astrals should be on the to buy list. But by no means should they be near the top. Like I said before, but clearly you missed, there are many things that a whm needs and are much more helpful that can be bought with 1mill gil first. For example: dark staff, raise 2, raise 3, light staff, errant hopelon(sp), +2mph belt (can't remember name), vermillion cloak, death earrings, etc. Sure get them if you have the money.

However, this again comes down to something mages understand best. 10 mp is really insignifigant to the point of not mattering at all. This is no excuse, it is reality. Your counter will be well so is 10 extra attack from +1 gear, yet I feel the need to point out the difference. That slight extra attack or accu comes into affect on every hit for a melee. You know how often that extra 10 mp comes into play for me? Never! Like I already pointed out earlier, during exp I never even dip into my bottom 250 mp. I could have 1,000 mp extra beyond what I normally use and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. It would go completly unused. Think of it as a cars gas tank. What good is it paying $10,000 extra to get a gas tank twice the size if you still refill it at the same rate and never let it get 1/3 empty?

If you want to criticize someone over 10 mp, I hope you never let a galka, hume, mithra, or elvaan be your whm or rdm since they automatically have 150-200 less mp than a taru. Yet all the races still perofrm the job equally well despite the mp difference. In closing, astrals do not equal mage sniper rings. :wink:

 

[Phraust]

Careful Rones, not all of my comments are directed Specifically at you.

And Also be reminded we are kind of specifically talking To/About Blinxx's Gear, Who already has Light/Dark Staves, and Raise II. She Listed Gear and asked if it was good, I gave my perspective, gave a small list of A- gear, defended my point, and you and I have since had a wonderful debate. I agree with you mostly, just wanted it noted that this conversation has four sides at the moment.