war merits

Bajaratt said:
The point is Jamal was parsing with some of the best gear war can get, if joyeuse wasn't doing as well with axe/axe, it's likely not going to be as good with lesser gear.
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you have remember though that A) unlike other swords joy it a piercing, while axe is slashing B) on higher eva mob axe going do better dew to the increase skill lvl, yet on mobs like imps, flys which weak against piercing joy might be a better choice. Me personally I like axe/axe better in mamool or nyle isle but in mire joy was nice.
 
hellstorm said:
you have remember though that A) unlike other swords joy it a piercing, while axe is slashing B) on higher eva mob axe going do better dew to the increase skill lvl, yet on mobs like imps, flys which weak against piercing joy might be a better choice. Me personally I like axe/axe better in mamool or nyle isle but in mire joy was nice.
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I already knew all of that, but that wasn't relevant to what I said. Of course if you fight weaker mobs or mobs that give joyeuse's piercing damage an advantage that it will parse better; but that's called skewing the results and isn't good data to base a decision on.
 
neophytal said:
for what its worth, i have never even been a party where someone with axe/joy outparsed someone with axe/axe.
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Just because you dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I've seen axe/axe out parse axe/ridill, I've seen axe'/axe out parse axe/joy, I've seen axe/joy utterly destroy axe/axe, I've seen axe/joy outparse axe/ridill, I've seen axe/axe outparse axe/axe!!!! My mind can't handle that!!

Honestly, quoting one parse on one camp from one person is pretty much the dumbest shit I've ever heard of. Theres so many x factors that go into somthing like parse #'s, it its insane. Jamal also doesn't have Suppa btw, so that right there is a major difference between jamal and the "average" warrior that would change his parse. And never once have I been in a party with multiple parses that all showed the same data.

In the end, parsing is a nice way to gauge gear improvments, but it is hardly substantial, and the only thing that really matters is that number showing your EXP/Hour.
 
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Skaw said:
Exactly why I only commented on Group 2 Merits.

Any Warrior would be a moron to not dump 3 in to Charge.
Any Warrior would be a moron to put any in Agg. Aim.

The remaining two are helpful to the party the warrior is in, and the alliance the warrior is in. And strictly speaking as to which helps more, Tomahawk trumps Savagery.
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Ya i never could see why agg. aim would be even a option.

A 210 D rating marksmanship/throwing/Archery

Only thing I can think of is they(SE) expected warrior to be war/rng during hnms like wyrms.

Savagery seem ok, but as it is already have to end up waiting to use ws at right time or end up tank for good portion of the fight. Tp gain is least of war worries. Though would be nice during nm like aspid where you focus is to gain tp on mob use on hnm, but that seem pretty situational
 
Back when I used to party with Jamal and Mattimer (the original) I had a parse that showed:

May0206_parse.jpg


Decidence – NIN/WAR [Sole Sushi]
Total Fights: 258
Average Damage: 1137.45
Average Percent: 28.1
Average Accuracy: 87.64

Jamal – WAR/NIN [Sole Sushi]
Total Fights: 250
Average Damage: 1371.66
Average Percent: 31.47
Average Accuracy: 91.64

Jahrahan – MNK/NIN [Sole Sushi x2 / Squid Sushi x3]
Total Fights: 251
Average Damage: 717.78
Average Percent: 16.36
Average Accuracy: 82.03

Mattimer – WAR/NIN [Sole Sushi]
Total Fights: 239
Average Damage: 1237.11
Average Percent: 29.18
Average Accuracy: 90.96

Thats with Mattimer (Maneater/Juggernaut) and Jamal (Maneater/Ridill). That parse is from back in May06 and they were both fully merited (not including Group2). I was almost fully merited at the time but still missing 2 in STR.

Big difference being of course the amount of weapon skills being used. Mattimer's are stronger but Jamal used way more. If Jamal was using Joyeuse I have to think that the numbers would of been a lot closer and not only that but his DoT would of been a lot less. And with that being said I have to say that Axe/Axe will be better because you will give the mob less TP and make up the damage lost from less WS's with higher DoT and WS damage.
 
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Mattimer is also a taru, Jamal elvaan. That's 5-10 str difference. It won't make the difference of 140dmg per fight, but it'll close the gap. Were they equally geared aside from weaps?
 
Zoolander said:
Just because you dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I've seen axe/axe out parse axe/ridill, I've seen axe'/axe out parse axe/joy, I've seen axe/joy utterly destroy axe/axe, I've seen axe/joy outparse axe/ridill, I've seen axe/axe outparse axe/axe!!!! My mind can't handle that!!
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uh.. thanks.. as i said.. GENERALLY.. i never said anything was 100%...

Zoolander said:
Honestly, quoting one parse on one camp from one person is pretty much the dumbest shit I've ever heard of. Theres so many x factors that go into somthing like parse #'s, it its insane. Jamal also doesn't have Suppa btw, so that right there is a major difference between jamal and the "average" warrior that would change his parse. And never once have I been in a party with multiple parses that all showed the same data.

In the end, parsing is a nice way to gauge gear improvments, but it is hardly substantial, and the only thing that really matters is that number showing your EXP/Hour.
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exp/hr is based off a whole party, not based off one person. and yeah that matters, but you cant control other people in your party for the most part.. you only control yourself.. so the better you make your adjustments, the better you make your exp/hr.
 
Joyeuse has its place, and that place is called "Caedarva Mire". Using it at pretty much any other xp zone (unless you go to sky!) is a big no-no. Even with merits (and why you have sword merited and don't have a Ridill is beyond me), your acc isn't good enough and it doesn't proc enough to make your DoT higher than another axe unless you're fighting weaksauce mobs. I shudder to think what your joytoy is gonna do against something like a Lurker other than kill my xp chain.
 
decidence said:
Back when I used to party with Jamal and Mattimer (the original) I had a parse that showed:

May0206_parse.jpg


Decidence – NIN/WAR [Sole Sushi]
Total Fights: 258
Average Damage: 1137.45
Average Percent: 28.1
Average Accuracy: 87.64

Jamal – WAR/NIN [Sole Sushi]
Total Fights: 250
Average Damage: 1371.66
Average Percent: 31.47
Average Accuracy: 91.64

Jahrahan – MNK/NIN [Sole Sushi x2 / Squid Sushi x3]
Total Fights: 251
Average Damage: 717.78
Average Percent: 16.36
Average Accuracy: 82.03

Mattimer – WAR/NIN [Sole Sushi]
Total Fights: 239
Average Damage: 1237.11
Average Percent: 29.18
Average Accuracy: 90.96

Thats with Mattimer (Maneater/Juggernaut) and Jamal (Maneater/Ridill). That parse is from back in May06 and they were both fully merited (not including Group2). I was almost fully merited at the time but still missing 2 in STR.

Big difference being of course the amount of weapon skills being used. Mattimer's are stronger but Jamal used way more. If Jamal was using Joyeuse I have to think that the numbers would of been a lot closer and not only that but his DoT would of been a lot less. And with that being said I have to say that Axe/Axe will be better because you will give the mob less TP and make up the damage lost from less WS's with higher DoT and WS damage.
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Thats the party mattimer and I had 1337 ws's like 1 minute apart from eachother lol.
Anyone defending the joyeuse hasn't taken a serious look at the alternatives. Zoo, Chronicles FINALLY changed to Man/jug after I've been on him for how long?

A WAR can choose one of three paths for combat skills (assuming using no other combat skills are used in other jobs):
A. 8 Sword 4 Axe
B. 8 Axe 4 Sword or Great Axe
C. 8 Great Axe 4 Axe

C. is the winner UNLESS you have a ridill when it comes to ANY endgame activity. B. Wins if you're not involved in endgame and are just a merit clown. A. wins if you're too cheap to buy a 10k axe to put in your other hand for those parties.
I've always wanted to figure out a DMG done / tp given ratio...the ONLY reason Ridill is an effective endgame weapon is because properly merited, you're gonna Do more good then bad. Joyeuse will NEVER come close to reaching that plateau, and the TP gain of Axe/Axe is only slightly slower on IT+.
Remember that you lose 1-hit on rampage as well when not offhanding an axe.
Anyone who merits 8 sword to enhance their joyeuse skeelz makes baby jesus cry. Don't do it. You have 2 better options, not only from my parse, but also from an intelligence aspect.

Anyway, this was a 40 page argument before, no sense in arguing any further.
 
CmdrFly said:
Mattimer is also a taru, Jamal elvaan. That's 5-10 str difference. It won't make the difference of 140dmg per fight, but it'll close the gap. Were they equally geared aside from weaps?
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The +dex from taru negates the STR bonuses from being elvaan. He'd always have a higher Crit+ rate, and my raw damage per hit was higher. Level 60 Mithra WARs have a higher DEX+ then me >.<
 
Greco7500 said:
Nobody likes Paladins Jamal.
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I like Paladins, because the changes that have been piled on to them seems to be building them up to be pretty sick tanks if they keep coming.
 
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