Westboro Baptist Church to get day in court

[Hexx]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/08/homosexuality.protest/index.html?hpt=T1


Now, I'm all for religious freedoms and whatnot, but seriously, I'm of the opinion that these guys are the "Christian" equivalent of the Taliban in the USA. Sure, we all have freedom of speech, but these are soldiers who died defending said freedom, these are the families and friends of those soldiers who will never get to see, hear, or speak to them again.

"You cannot preach the Bible without preaching the hatred of God." Just WTF is that? Any true Christian knows God and Jesus were about acceptance and love, not hate. Would be fun to see someone end up gunning down these idiots while they were picketing another soldiers funeral, as bad as that sounds.

 

[Miruyasha]

I'm an Atheist, but from what I understand about the bible is that in the Old testament God is kinda a dick (no offense to christians), and that in the New testament he's all happy and benevolent, but to go as far as hatred? Again, I don't believe in God, but I don't think those who do believe that he's hateful.

 

[Blazeoffury]

I'm an Atheist, but from what I understand about the bible is that in the Old testament God is kinda a dick (no offense to christians), and that in the New testament he's all happy and benevolent, but to go as far as hatred? Again, I don't believe in God, but I don't think those who do believe that he's hateful.

You're correct, in the old testament God was a very vengeful God, but to play devil's advicate (sorry bout the pun) His children were pretty much completely out of line, and He did give them warnings and chances. The New testament started the end of killing and shedding blood for forgiveness of your sins, which is where the love of Jesus comes in. He went from being vengeful to being forgiving, a very significant change. It was also one foretold in the Old Testament.

Not trying to ram Christianity down your throat buddy, just adding a little more to your statement.

 

[Miruyasha]

You're correct, in the old testament God was a very vengeful God, but to play devil's advicate (sorry bout the pun) His children were pretty much completely out of line, and He did give them warnings and chances. The New testament started the end of killing and shedding blood for forgiveness of your sins, which is where the love of Jesus comes in. He went from being vengeful to being forgiving, a very significant change. It was also one foretold in the Old Testament.

Not trying to ram Christianity down your throat buddy, just adding a little more to your statement.

Oh I getcha, it's cool. I'm just saying that these people seem to be (possibly) taking the Old testament god too literally. No god hates it's own followers. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Oh I getcha, it's cool. I'm just saying that these people seem to be (possibly) taking the Old testament god too literally. No god hates it's own followers. It just doesn't make sense.

Right, it would make absolutely zero since, even in the Old Testament, it was never hate, it was punishment for major disobedience after many chances, and it always led to a better end.

 

[Tristam Green]

I explained Westboro to someone like this recently:

"Yes, they exist. Much to the detriment of the 1.9999999 billion other Christians on the planet."

While I think that *by law* their ability to do these repulsive protests should remain protected speech, I believe there ought to be ordinances that dictate that anyone intending on having a protest at a funeral must have express written permission of the surviving kin of the deceased.

 

[Zaltana]

The taliban branch of Christian groups? that's an insult to the Taliban, well not really. It's fine and dandy to want to uphold free speech's principles, but there has to be a line. Laws that can be stretched like taffy are just asking to be misused. Case in point our token inbreed protesters here. And no that is not a generalization. The group's members are forbidden to interact with individuals outside of the congregation.

 

[Miruyasha]

The taliban branch of Christian groups? that's an insult to the Taliban, well not really. It's fine and dandy to want to uphold free speech's principles, but there has to be a line. Laws that can be stretched like taffy are just asking to be misused. Case in point our token inbreed protesters here. And no that is not a generalization. The group's members are forbidden to interact with individuals outside of the congregation.

Exactly. I'm all for freedom of speech and all that but when people can just say whatever people are bound to abuse that freedom and piss people off. I hope these people get what's coming to them.

 

[Tristam Green]

Laws that can be stretched like taffy are just asking to be misused.

What laws that can be stretched like taffy?

 

[Hexx]

I explained Westboro to someone like this recently:

"Yes, they exist. Much to the detriment of the 1.9999999 billion other Christians on the planet."

While I think that *by law* their ability to do these repulsive protests should remain protected speech, I believe there ought to be ordinances that dictate that anyone intending on having a protest at a funeral must have express written permission of the surviving kin of the deceased.

Right, if we start restricting free speech, that's just opening a can of worms that could really fuck things up. At the same time though, what can be done to at least curb this shitty behavior?

 

[Morcheeba]

There is all kinds of wrong doing in the bible instructed BY god, apparently (I say apparently because I am not a believer.. in the bible). I'm of the believers that think it was just a bunch of men who put their opinions in writing.

But I'm not about to deny there is not hatred, because that would be silly. God would 'smite' by basically instructing 'his' servants to kill non-believers and all sorts of terrible barbaric things. But we kind of go through life hoping with time, civilization, education, evolution, people smarten up and can tell the good from the bad. The way it was written and the actions and punishments expressed within were of THAT time, not current.

Ultimately the message is a positive one, the ways about enforcing gods rules were disgusting and straight up wrong at times. But it's 2010, not 300bc.

The Westboro peeps are very sick individuals who I could easily liken to psychotics as they obviously cannot tell the difference between reasonable beliefs and actions vs. down right ignorant actions.

They will rot in hell, if there is indeed a hell.

Oh and my opinion on whether they should be allowed their antics by way of freedom of speech, not for them!

I say they took it took far, they lost that right!

Too bad so sad, if you can't say anything nice at someones funeral, then you can be charged and convicted of... lets say harassment! Slander.. all sorts of other things. All in all, I think they blew their chance at a freedom of speech excuse.

And I can't see how this wouldn't be viewed as spreading hate which SHOULD be punishable when done in public with many many witnesses. You want to spread hate behind closed doors and pollute your children with venom, by all means. But when you bring your filthy mouth, and to me it's worse than saying Fuck between every word, you should be punished.

 

[Halifirien]

I hate to do this because I think the Westboro folks are delusional and psychotic dolts of the highest order, but I hope the Supreme Court comes down on their side and protects their constitutional right to freedom of speech and their freedom to be a complete asshole about it. The idea of a "protest-free zone" is abhorrent to me. As long as they're in a public space, they have a right to assemble and wave their stupid signs.

 

[StanDarsh]

I hate to do this because I think the Westboro folks are delusional and psychotic dolts of the highest order, but I hope the Supreme Court comes down on their side and protects their constitutional right to freedom of speech and their freedom to be a complete asshole about it. The idea of a "protest-free zone" is abhorrent to me. As long as they're in a public space, they have a right to assemble and wave their stupid signs.

/agree a thousand times over

 

[Tristam Green]

I hate to do this because I think the Westboro folks are delusional and psychotic dolts of the highest order, but I hope the Supreme Court comes down on their side and protects their constitutional right to freedom of speech and their freedom to be a complete asshole about it. The idea of a "protest-free zone" is abhorrent to me. As long as they're in a public space, they have a right to assemble and wave their stupid signs.

Much as I hate them, I do too. It's retarded though, when we can't have common sense prevail.

Actually, I think I want to organize a giant "you're fucking moronic" protest right outside their church in Topeka. Who's with me?

In other news, I've seen Patriot Guard members at a soldier's funeral here in town. Power to them likewise to be as nasty and intimidating as they can possibly be.

 

[Valandil]

I hate to do this because I think the Westboro folks are delusional and psychotic dolts of the highest order, but I hope the Supreme Court comes down on their side and protects their constitutional right to freedom of speech and their freedom to be a complete asshole about it. The idea of a "protest-free zone" is abhorrent to me. As long as they're in a public space, they have a right to assemble and wave their stupid signs.

Agreed as well. Plus, if the Supreme Court rules in their favor, no ordinance can be enacted to prevent them from 1) assembling 2) protesting. Besides, the more effort you put into making it more difficult for them to spew their fanatical fundamentalism, the more you will make them feel like martyrs and give them more impetus to continue their aggressive agenda.

 

[Hexx]

Much as I hate them, I do too. It's retarded though, when we can't have common sense prevail.

Actually, I think I want to organize a giant "you're fucking moronic" protest right outside their church in Topeka. Who's with me?

In other news, I've seen Patriot Guard members at a soldier's funeral here in town. Power to them likewise to be as nasty and intimidating as they can possibly be.

I'm with you, they actually tried to set up a protest here in El Paso and the entire H.O.G. chapter went out to block them by parking across from them and spending the day just revving their harleys engines. They left after about two hours.

 

[Morcheeba]

Besides, the more effort you put into making it more difficult for them to spew their fanatical fundamentalism, the more you will make them feel like martyrs and give them more impetus to continue their aggressive agenda.

They're not that smart :d

I don't think they're exercising their right to freedom of speech. I think they've gone well passed freedom of speech when they started publicly slandering and spreading lies of the dead who were unable to defend themselves.

 

[Alyada]

I go to Northern Illinois University. Two years back we had a former student open fire on a completely unprepared classroom and the resulting death toll was 6 people and many others injured. Not a single day had passed when Westboro was picketing the funerals of completely innocent, completely unjustified deaths because they went to a school that "developed and cultivated a relationship with homosexuals." You have no idea how much it hurt to see these people outside my school with their signs. After my wife and I were so close to the attack we heard the shotgun blasts and saw the bloodied and frantic students running out of their classroom. For them to say that we deserved it? No god, no law, no person should protect them from that.

There is a difference between "Free" speech and "Hate" speech, in my book. As an atheist, I want nothing more than to see these fools silenced. They have a job as an American citizen to benefit their society as a whole. Depressing students outside a massacre and word-defecating on grieving families is far enough. Their message of hate, while in completely legal systems, does not deserve to be heard. We can condemn and ignore them all we'd like, but in the long run they are setting America, the human condition, and their religion back about twenty years.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Miruyasha]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I agree wholeheartedly.

That's just awful though, that people can be so bassackwards as to think that death is "deserved" because of something as trivial as homosexuality. Granted it's still a hot button, but death? No, that's just not right no matter how you spin it.

I learned (and still believe) a long time ago that your rights end where another person's rights begin. So let these dumbfucks wave their stupid signs and have their protests, like other people have said. The minute their rallys and protests infringe on another persons rights is when the supreme court should step in and put a stop to it.

 

[Halifirien]

There is a difference between "Free" speech and "Hate" speech, in my book.

Constitutionally, we protect both in this country.