what is this person thinking?

[Ruffyreborn]

lol, dumbing the definition of skill down to elementary level...

Skill is a persons ability to do something effectively.

FFXI has fallen from the 'skill' level all the way down to the 'instinct' level. So yes, I suppose Antor is right. The increasing popularity of cannon parties are straight examples of this. Little to no skill is required to be in a cannon party. You put on your gear, then just go out and start banging on things with all your abilities at random times. Cannon ftw as far as skill goes.

Traditional parties require more skill, they require timing, knowledge of WHEN is the best time to do something, HOW to handle the dangerous situation effectively, and WHAT not to do.

Of course a WAR is going to believe FFXI requires no skill to play... De de dee.

But I give you props on having BST leveled, a job which does require a bit of skill.

 

[Lecreuset]

I do agree that skill isn't really skillfull. More common sense, but there are a lot of retards out here that have none...so I guess we can call it skill to make people feel better.

Agreed.

Most people who come from the hardcore FPS scene see what skill is required most often here as a joke...

Don't get me wrong, I'm a far way from being a perfect RDM or anything else; but for those coming from a different genre of game where in tight competition, the unskilled players will stand out like a beacon of light in darkness, they can skimp it a bit easier here...

(Insert Clip of FPS Doug -- BOOM HEADSHOT!)

- Lec

 

[Darkfelicity]

All right, I think our miscommunication here is obviously the definition of "skill." The way I use the word... FFXI and most any other MMORPG lacks any real skill (unless people actually count things like typing and timing a macro as a skill).

This game does, however, require cooperation, communication, and an understanding of the job you're playing, including, but not limited to, job abilities and magic timers as well as gear choices (and quite possibly the jobs of other people in the case of something like a White Mage main healing a party with a Paladin in it for example). Some things require a strategy. These are all things I would not consider a skill. If you are a Red Mage and understand haste cycles you're not skilled; you're simply not retarded. It's such a basic skill, especially for a level 75 character, that it's far from even being qualified as an actual skill. Perhaps common sense at best.

No amount of skill is going to make you gain TP faster. No amount of skill is going to make you skill chain for more damage. No amount of skill is going to make you hit a magic burst for more damage. No amount of skill is going to make you take less damage (unless, of course, you consider counting to four a skill; and only when you have access to Utsusemi).

Skill in this game is artificial to me... like duoing something that could easily be done with more people. That activity is rarely, if ever, required to do anything in this game, so my final point is this game, as it stands, requires no real skill. Dodging aggro without using sneak/invisible could be considered a skill, but it's far from necessary. Maybe that clears some things up on my use of the word skill.

Regardless, the OP image sports gear that doesn't even resemble an attempt at gearing themselves properly. I'm not expecting uber leet gear from people, especially in level capped events (I said earlier that some level capped events don't even have good options for some slots, like back piece for melee pre-50), but I do ask for an attempt. Using a Garrulous Ring and Courage Ring combination at level 60 says one thing to me. Not only is that person gimped at level 60, they don't even own basic rings that people use at level 75. Darkfelicity stated she was pimped out at 50, but if I don't even see Woodsman/Venerer/Jaeger/Sniper's ring in both slots there's a good chance you're just straight up gimp, and to a further extent, "unskilled." There's the likelihood that you have some higher leveled accuracy rings, but that's very damn low, especially considering the gear combinations in the OP's images.

Only problem I have here is you didn't read everything. I'm sorry but you misunderstood, I NEVER said I had pimp 50 gear that was the OP trying to talk down to me saying HE had pimp 50 gear for lv caps, This was just junk from various jobs. I didn't try because I know the skill of everyone involved and the difficulty of the bcnm before we entered. I KNEW we could take the bcnm practically naked if we wanted.

It was getting late I was in a hurry and just filled slots.. I'm sorry if I didn't try hard enough , regardless of easy win we got. I still don't have a problem with you Antor i wouldn't want to party with people who don't try either. but this is not for exp , I always got the most decent gear while exping ninja practically had all the best stuff. (SH, hauby,kote, Fuma ect ect) But when you start to lv multiple jobs and really need money.. you have to sell a few things, farm or (gasp) buy gil to get new gear. I chose to sell a few things on a job i haven't used in a while, figuring i can buy it back later.

Just please understand the /tells, it was OP who got pimp lv 50 gear and me saying "good for you" I have too many jobs to keep a multiple lv cap gear around. I only have "decent" lv 50 gear for BLM for cop missions.
I may not have the devotion to this game some of you super elite guys got but i do try, I don't consider myself devoted, I am a casual player hoping to have fun and not be too gimped. I have a family to worry about before getting pimped gear. I am taking my time to get it with my shell. I dont need to have it right away so i can be an elitist and talk shit to those who dont have it. I hope to be elite someday but I will never be be an elitest "asshole" lol

All I have left to say is before you judge me any event, bcnm or exp party that I lead, you should try it with me first. If i fail miserabely due to lack of knowledge or gimped gear or just plain not knowing my job then by all means you have a valid point

 

[Selph]

Why even Bother

Why was this even a Flame?
Was DF in pt w/ you when this gear was worn? NO

Were you on the BCNM60 run? NO

Did his/her gear affecting your gameplay? NO

Why does it even matter what that particular person wore during a BCNM 60 run that was probably w/ a bunch friends? NO

Does this Flame have any backing? NO

Does this prove OP is a complete ass? yes, yes it does.

 

[Kirlua]

MMORPGs don't actually have any required level of real skill outside of reading up on it. I posted two examples of things that could be skill, but again, they're not required skills. An FPS, on the other hand, requires skill. Ninja Gaiden is a game that requires skill and quick reflexes. Time Crisis requires skill (up until the point where you just memorize the game). Guitar Hero, even though I hate the game, requires skill to play. MMORPGs rely msotly on gear and knowledge.

I play Beastmaster, arguably the hardest and most skill-required job in the game, and I would not say that is even a skill. Hitting a release macro and charming a monster is not a skill. Constantly getting head shots in Counterstrike is a skill.

Skills don't apply just to games, obviously. A craft or a profession, such as carpentry, requires applying knowledge, using it, and being able to use tools in a timely manner. It's not something just anyone can pick up and do effectively. But if I gave someone 200,000 gil and showed them how the game works I'm sure they would be getting solo chain #3's at the very beginning of the game.

The problem with saying this game requires skill is that you can overcome just about anything by swapping out alliance members or throwing more money at it. Hence the main reason there is no such thing as skill in this game.

Pretty funny when you said no skill involve in game, i guess everyone can duo Tyrant Tunnoc or Ancient Gobbue or duo the NM in Riverne-SiteB... /shrug... Personally, i think there are jobs that require more skills than others, for DD i think THF is hardest (i phail at quick sata ;_.

Skill in game is very obvious when you duo NM with your friend, i have duo several NM with my friend which is pretty fun <3

 

[Kirlua]

Oh, and one last thing.

No. You can't. You have a red dot, and therefore can't rate down shit. Just figured I'd mention that, because it's funny that you think you can.

Oh and Raian, please read which obviously you don't ^^v , bolded and underline for emphasize... /yawn

 

[Areya]

So you rate me down after saying that rate downs mean nothing? LMAO i find this hillarious.

Good thing you stopped coming to dynamis, or we'd have some words about this one ^^

not like they mean anything jya

 

[Silenus]

Under that definition I agree, yes.

Hey, could you do the Beastmaster community a favor and just say you're, like, a PUP or something?

kktxbaibai

 

[Beka]

Of course a WAR is going to believe FFXI requires no skill to play... De de dee.
QUOTE]

Even a WAR, in a cannon, has the option of using some skill. First of all, just deciding what to wear, and when to wear it. You can give a random person a FF account with all the best gear but doesn't mean they'll put the right stuff on. Then there is macro'd gear, and setting up those macros, and using them at the right time. Paying attention and knowing when to use voke and warcry to control hate so that it stays off the mages, but isn't glued to you. Knowing when to use WS, to keep chain going (if someone else just ws'd that puk to 20%, save yours for the mamool next please). Not WSing right after the mob uses an Evasion buff, etc. Hell, even picking the right food for the camp.

And this is WAR, one of the simpler jobs. If you mean the game doesn't require superb REFLEXES, or high amounts of manual dexterity, then yes, I agree. But it does require thought, comprehension, quick decision making on the fly, etc. And I consider that to be skill, and if you look at the flameboard, you'll realize alot of people lack it. And it is noticeable when they do.

Do you remember the PLD in all +1 gear that rarely voked, never used his mp, and let you die as a good PLD? Or do you remember the one in NQ gear that used Cover and Cure 4 and Rampart to save your ass when you did that amazing WS?

Obviously, a skilled player with great gear is better than a skilled player with poor gear. But at the same time, a skilled player with poor gear is better than an unskilled one with poor gear. BOTH gear and skill count for something.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Yes, but I was giving a simple example...

Skill IS involved in FFXI. Im not saying WAR requires NO skill, but I AM saying that I can see why someone who is 75 WAR (Im assuming ONRY 75 is WAR) would say that FFXI requires no skill.

Playing in tradition parties where you have DRG, DRK, PLD, BLM, SMN, jobs like those, they operate better when you play with skill rather than dumping on large amounts of cannon gear and just having a hayday.

Well... To an extent. Im sure you understand what I mean unless someone jumps the gun.

 

[meeze]

lol, dumbing the definition of skill down to elementary level...

Skill is a persons ability to do something effectively.

FFXI has fallen from the 'skill' level all the way down to the 'instinct' level. So yes, I suppose Antor is right. The increasing popularity of cannon parties are straight examples of this. Little to no skill is required to be in a cannon party. You put on your gear, then just go out and start banging on things with all your abilities at random times. Cannon ftw as far as skill goes.

Traditional parties require more skill, they require timing, knowledge of WHEN is the best time to do something, HOW to handle the dangerous situation effectively, and WHAT not to do.

Of course a WAR is going to believe FFXI requires no skill to play... De de dee.

But I give you props on having BST leveled, a job which does require a bit of skill.

No, traditional parties require less "skill" than anything. You don't need to be "skillful" to pull one mob at a time. It takes way more to have 3-4 mobs at camp ready to be killed, so your logic is flawed as usual.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

No, traditional parties require less "skill" than anything. You don't need to be "skillful" to pull one mob at a time. It takes way more to have 3-4 mobs at camp ready to be killed, so your logic is flawed as usual.

Keeping 3-4 mobs at camp does not require much skill. When I merit on BLU and Im the puller, most of the time I do that myself. Its not hard at all...

Traditional parties, which youve apparently forgotten due to you being stuck up with cannons, focus around SC'ing, MB'ing and whatnot, not dumping TP on the mob as soon as you have it. Although SC'ing and MB'ing dont require a whole lot of skill, it is quite a step above cannon parties.

My 'logic' is obviously flawed.

 

[meeze]

Keeping 3-4 mobs at camp does not require much skill. When I merit on BLU and Im the puller, most of the time I do that myself. Its not hard at all...

Traditional parties, which youve apparently forgotten due to you being stuck up with cannons, focus around SC'ing, MB'ing and whatnot, not dumping TP on the mob as soon as you have it. Although SC'ing and MB'ing dont require a whole lot of skill, it is quite a step above cannon parties.

My 'logic' is obviously flawed.

lol, even "traditional" parties dont invite BLMs for merits. "traditional" parties just means PLD and any job that isn't MNK NIN BRD WAR.

If you're seriously arguing that holding TP till two players have it is "skill" then you're dumber than I thought. BLM or no BLM, it's still a retarded way to merit. Dumping TP even if you don't have the "cannon" jobs in your PT is still more effective.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

lol, even "traditional" parties dont invite BLMs for merits. "traditional" parties just means PLD and any job that isn't MNK NIN BRD WAR.

If you're seriously arguing that holding TP till two players have it is "skill" then you're dumber than I thought. BLM or no BLM, it's still a retarded way to merit. Dumping TP even if you don't have the "cannon" jobs in your PT is still more effective.

Traditional pt's isnt just having a PLD. Its about having a mixture of jobs that each compliment each other, and helping each other as a team. Cannons, although they do help each other in a sense, are more about FFA, which is why utsusemi is nearly required.

Its not about 'holding tp,' its about SC'ing and MB'ing and such. Depending on jobs, TP gain should be very close to one another, and usually is. When I have a DRG in my party, for instance, and Im on DRK, I darkness SC can be setup, and is always very effective because the TP gain is very close. Even if it isnt, DRK has Absorb-TP which I can use to throw a Guillotine if the DRG cant get TP fast enough.

Of course cannons are more effective, time saving and whatnot, but that isnt what were debating.

 

[meeze]

Traditional pt's isnt just having a PLD. Its about having a mixture of jobs that each compliment each other, and helping each other as a team. Cannons, although they do help each other in a sense, are more about FFA, which is why utsusemi is nearly required.

Its not about 'holding tp,' its about SC'ing and MB'ing and such. Depending on jobs, TP gain should be very close to one another, and usually is. When I have a DRG in my party, for instance, and Im on DRK, I darkness SC can be setup, and is always very effective because the TP gain is very close. Even if it isnt, DRK has Absorb-TP which I can use to throw a Guillotine if the DRG cant get TP fast enough.

Of course cannons are more effective, time saving and whatnot, but that isnt what were debating.

Any good DRG will smoke any DRK to 100 TP.

And I still fail to see how SCing is more skillfull. It just means you wait for your partner to have TP then use yours. Again, less effective than dumping TP as you get it. Even non cannon jobs don't SC, I've been in plenty of "TP burns" with SAMs, DRGs, THfs etc, same concept as cannon, and way more effective than "traditional" set ups.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

Any good DRG will smoke any DRK to 100 TP.

And I still fail to see how SCing is more skillfull. It just means you wait for your partner to have TP then use yours. Again, less effective than dumping TP as you get it. Even non cannon jobs don't SC, I've been in plenty of "TP burns" with SAMs, DRGs, THfs etc, same concept as cannon, and way more effective than "traditional" set ups.

Yeah, I did say I know theyre more effective, but its situational as well.

Also, Ive not partied with too many DRG due to their unpopularity, so I cant really use many as an example. But from partying with them, only jumps enable them to get TP out their arse, but they have a cooldown timer (which I dont know how long that is.)

Even on Colibri, DRK can Absorb-TP without the colibri recasting it, IF you know how to do it correctly, which then if the DRG does gain TP and a very competitive rate, the DRK could still gain TP just as quickly

 

[meeze]

Yeah, I did say I know theyre more effective, but its situational as well.

Also, Ive not partied with too many DRG due to their unpopularity, so I cant really use many as an example. But from partying with them, only jumps enable them to get TP out their arse, but they have a cooldown timer (which I dont know how long that is.)

Even on Colibri, DRK can Absorb-TP without the colibri recasting it, IF you know how to do it correctly, which then if the DRG does gain TP and a very competitive rate, the DRK could still gain TP just as quickly

I think its 1:30 and 3:00 for their jumps, dont forget they also have lower delay weapons which allow for faster TP. Even with 90%+ acc i can still get blown away by other jobs. Most notably DW2 jobs with suppa.

DRK is just innefective "skill" or no "skill". Easier to level a good job and merit. Saves yourself all sorts of time, seeking and actually meriting. XPing sucks, why XP more for less.

 

[Ruffyreborn]

I think its 1:30 and 3:00 for their jumps, dont forget they also have lower delay weapons which allow for faster TP. Even with 90%+ acc i can still get blown away by other jobs. Most notably DW2 jobs with suppa.

DRK is just innefective "skill" or no "skill". Easier to level a good job and merit. Saves yourself all sorts of time, seeking and actually meriting. XPing sucks, why XP more for less.

Yeah, which is now what Im planning on doing while working on gearing NIN up

 

[Blancho]

I think its 1:30 and 3:00 for their jumps, dont forget they also have lower delay weapons which allow for faster TP. Even with 90%+ acc i can still get blown away by other jobs. Most notably DW2 jobs with suppa.

DRK is just innefective "skill" or no "skill". Easier to level a good job and merit. Saves yourself all sorts of time, seeking and actually meriting. XPing sucks, why XP more for less.

That's why I lvled BRD. LOL

 

[meeze]

Where is the skill?

You told me about this skill to SC, what about an SC is so skillful?