What SE did to Bsts

[Stouter]

What other BST exp are you referring to? Parties? (you're joking right?) At least RNG can still exp.

I was pointing out examples about how people would treat another job if they were nerfed so badly. I wasn't trying to offend you.

I'm sorry you're sore about RNG, but please, this thread is about BSTs. If you want to gripe about the old RNG nerf, do it on another thread; you're derailing the topic.

Bst can make a contribution to exp parties. Remember my reference to bst being the new drg now? Bst can do the same thing drg can more or less. Respectable damage by themselves as a DD, up there near the top when you toss in pet damage. Difference is bst pets have their own seperate TP moves, as opposed to wyverns that have their thing they do with the drg's ws.

I was responding to the numerous posts saying this was completely different than the rng nerf, and that the rng nerf was basically just "now you have to stand 10 feet away, nothing else has changed." Your job got screwed over, your play style has to change as a result, and even after changing you're nowhere close to where you were before. Same as rng nerf, same as drg nerf. My posts were responses to other posts that had already derailed the thread, many of which by you. If you don't want rng nerf discussed here, don't talk about it here.

 

[Skaw]

Sorry Stout, I have to agree with Reishu. It totally sucked how they nerfed Rng, but it just is not the same as compared to Bst.

Bingo. Fine tuning isn't breaking. This, is breaking.

 

[alanon]

I really never knew much about bst until I met the cutest little taru in Cape Tarregan to help him get his BST Test (c'mon.. Taru in the full BST AF gear! Look like a fuzzy teddy bear! FUZZYTARU!!!). I think until everyone figures out the new tactics, and SE trys to fix this, all BST's will need to get to know a few cooks. I got my cooking to 60 on my need for MP juices, but I can just as easily make some of the jugs and pet food. The two pets that cap out the highest are the crab & that beetle; Maybe SE can lower the skill level on the jugs so the HQ's are easier to get. Scarlet Sap is only a lv12 woodworking synth, and yet the HQ goes for 100k/stack?! But the HQ Fish oil is lv45 (I think) synth, and goes for much less. I think I'll join the others and say I'm gonna help if I can to keep BST workable. >.< can't stand to see Miros in metal armor... its worth just to keep him fuzzy.

Even with making it yourself, it still is insanely expensive. In order for it to have a shot to work, Jugs and pet food need to follow the 33/66/99 synth/stack matrix AND they need to cut the cooldown timers on <Reward> and <Call Beast> have to be DRASTICALLY reduced.

 

[Kaik]

Sorry putting in my 2 cents here.

I never said this nerf was a good thing, and the rng nerf took away not one, but two jobs I loved exp'ing with, and it cramped my play style for a third. This nerf took away bst's best means of exp.

For some reason I get the feeling this goes a bit beyond an intentional nerf. The update was suppose to help MPK issues and what they ended up doing was messing with the only way bsts have to efficiently get xp. Granted we can still xp... I tried it out in Canals under Windy, but that was with a pet at a higher lvl than my prey... I couldn't begin to fathom having to take on a vt or high t that required a swap or two.

I also get the feeling it's lazy programming. It seems to me that they used the same program uses in the ravine sight where you drag a pet threw the portal... once released it'll despawn in seconds. I hear sky is the same way. Instead of writing something new to benefit all I bet they cut some corners using a program that already existed in other areas.



Pet respawn: About 45 seconds to a 1 minute and 15 seconds. I tried it at full health, half health, and a sliver of health. There doesn't seem to be much method to find out the exact spawn time.... it's just rounded off to about 1 minute... full health.

 

[Stigmatas]

i agree with stouter :|

 

[Stouter]

Bingo. Fine tuning isn't breaking. This, is breaking.

Fine tuning is adjusting the one place where there is imbalance, not gimping the entire job until that one area hits balance. That is what the rng nerf was.

 

[Skaw]

Fine tuning is adjusting the one place where there is imbalance, not gimping the entire job until that one area hits balance. That is what the rng nerf was.

You know RNG is still a viable source of damage right? :/

The job isn't broken. Nothing was made useless. It was tuned.

 

[Stigmatas]

for any programmers out there.,,, riddle me this.
are you telling me for bst they couldnt make a seperate code so they could still exp?
and if they release the pet and it starts to attack another PT then make it go back to where it came from?

i read someone saying it.. lazy programming.
but still they didnt have to decimate you all.
maybe make the pets as strong as we are if not stronger?
petition!

i give up on trying to make you all understand.
destroy doesnt mean balance.
They stopped drgs from getting 50% tp back from penta.. doesnt mean they arent still one of the BEST DD's out there. thats balance. i wanted to be a drg way before spirit surge came out

 

[Elemmire]

what areas exactly suck now for exping for a BST exactly? Cause I know of places in sky and atleast 1 place in Ifrit's Cauldron where the mobs and charmed pets are close to each other (I've watched my friend solo there when I was running around there one day). And I think there must be places in lower level areas. Sure some camps like Attowa Chasm (or atleast the one that I used to see BSTs at a lot) are not so good anymore but surely there must be areas where the prey and your pet are relatively close together.

 

[Stouter]

He started it.

You know RNG is still a viable source of damage right? :/

The job isn't broken. Nothing was made useless. It was tuned.

Whenever anyone says something like this, 9/10 times they will quote per hit or ws damage. What they seem to miss is that with 281 marksmanship, Racc +73, over 100 AGI, and using sushi, my ranged accuracy is below the accuracy of a melee job using attack food with +20 acc in gear on.

I don't give a crap if they took away how hard we can hit HNM's, but when I can do more DoT with haste gear and axes solo than I can with ranged attacks, and when I can't hit a lvl 1 mob with a slug shot, the job is broken. It's not useless, but it is definately broken.

 

[Skaw]

what areas exactly suck now for exping for a BST exactly? Cause I know of places in sky and atleast 1 place in Ifrit's Cauldron where the mobs and charmed pets are close to each other (I've watched my friend solo there when I was running around there one day). And I think there must be places in lower level areas. Sure some camps like Attowa Chasm (or atleast the one that I used to see BSTs at a lot) are not so good anymore but surely there must be areas where the prey and your pet are relatively close together.

Off the tope of my head? Yuhtungha and Yhoator Jungle, Garliage Citadel, Crawler's Nest... Anywhere you have to roam between pet camp and exp mob camp?

 

[Damita]

Eh... I'm not happy about it, but it's not that bad... Yet.

I found the nerf is offset a bit if you can duo with another BST. That being said, I found you can still solo, but with additional cost and pain.

Here's how I solo post nerf...
Go somewhere with lots of pets. Wasn't neccessary before, but now you need a supply of EM and DCs close at hand. (Last night I was in Tor. Canal with Seraa. Fun with Girtab and bones.)

Charm a pet and go send it off against a mob. One it gets low. Leave it, summon a juggie. Send the juggie in and help finish it off. Your previous pet will warp away and you need to be careful that you're not fighting in a spawn point. Anyway, normally my juggie finishes the fight, and I get full xp since that was changed too.

Send my now almost dead jug pet against another critter and run like a chicken to find a new pet. Once the juggie dies. Charm new pet and send it in.

And repeat...

The nerf isn't ideal, but like I said, it is greatly offset if you can duo.

The main problem I see is all us BST are now going to have to level in zones where the XP party level due to the need of pets. And the vicious cycle will get worse with the BSTs not having pets, the XP parties not having enough xp mobs, and everybody blaiming one another.

Eh. Time will tell as to what will happen. I'm hoping this leads to BST hunting grounds. Like a hunting perserve where you buy a ticket to get in and go kill things...

 

[Stouter]

Hey someone back on topic. That's an idea, make pets stick around, and only warp back when they would aggro or link. MPK issue from leave still resolved, bst can still solo. (although ironically other players could now MPK bsts by aggroing the pets they leave )

 

[Skaw]

Whenever anyone says something like this, 9/10 times they will quote per hit or ws damage. What they seem to miss is that with 281 marksmanship, Racc +73, over 100 AGI, and using sushi, my ranged accuracy is below the accuracy of a melee job using attack food with +20 acc in gear on.

If its really that bad, there wouldn't be Rangers anymore. Your case really sounds blown way out of proportion. The first paragraph that is. But from what I can see, it's still a popular job.

 

[Lecan]

It's not even that pets will disappear though, it's also that Prey will despawn if you are out of the spawn area and happen to not have hate.

In any area where you have to use more than one pet a lot of BST will not melee the first pet and let it weaken the mob, then join in with the second. Reason for this is because if you melee with the first pet, it still isn't going to last long enough, but when you pet swap you will have a crapload of hate and have to tank a T mob (which can usually lead to death).

BST are reporting all over that both pets and prey have been despawning during fights.

As far as areas where pets are close together.. let me try to think about them:

Valkurm dunes, maybe.
Bubumiru Peninsula
Jungles (Yuhtunga and Yhoator)
SSG
Some places in CN.

Not a whole lot I'm afraid (though I'm probably missing a few). Worse, is that at those camps there's either competing parties (we all know how that works.. ) or issues with mobs linking or unsafe exp conditions (worse than normal camps).

 

[alanon]

for any programmers out there.,,, riddle me this.
are you telling me for bst they couldnt make a seperate code so they could still exp?
and if they release the pet and it starts to attack another PT then make it go back to where it came from?

i read someone saying it.. lazy programming.
but still they didnt have to decimate you all.
maybe make the pets as strong as we are if not stronger?
petition!

i give up on trying to make you all understand.
destroy doesnt mean balance.
They stopped drgs from getting 50% tp back from penta.. doesnt mean they arent still one of the BEST DD's out there. thats balance. i wanted to be a drg way before spirit surge came out

If they made the jugs at least as strong as an EM pet, combined with the new no-xp penalty on jugs, and lowered the call Bst Timer, I could almost forgive SE. It would still be rather pricey though.

 

[Stigmatas]

If its really that bad, there wouldn't be Rangers anymore. Your case really sounds blown way out of proportion. The first paragraph that is. But from what I can see, it's still a popular job.

not to double team you skaw...

it is that bad :|
i love rng dont want to take the time to level anything else. never planned to, not going to start. This is how i feel, stout maybe diff.
with all that acc on your dmg is super low :|
you can't really have a mix of rattk and racc. its either or, and if you switch out str gear for WS dont plan on hitting.

 

[Stigmatas]

If they made the jugs at least as strong as an EM pet, combined with the new no-xp penalty on jugs, and lowered the call Bst Timer, I could almost forgive SE. It would still be rather pricey though.

i can hq humus, fuck that ill go farming with you, and ill bring a axe. hate to miss sidewinder on a farming mob :|

 

[Elemmire]

The main problem I see is all us BST are now going to have to level in zones where the XP party level due to the need of pets. And the vicious cycle will get worse with the BSTs not having pets, the XP parties not having enough xp mobs, and everybody blaiming one another.

I always thought if a BST gets to said camp first they should have it. There's a lot of camps anyone can find. So a party shouldn't bitch just cause "that's their spot" or whatever..

And I'm still sure there are areas (plenty) where the pets and mobs you fight are well within range of each other. Surely there must be.

 

[Elemmire]

Oh, and Skaw.. what about behind the first door atleast in garliage citadel? There's bats and bombs I've seen people exp off of that are relatively close to each other. Wouldn't that place work? There must be places.. or new camps. I know my friend solo-ed around 35ish in Bibiki Bay and he said that the mobs are close by enough where it works out fine. Just have to be careful of a link maybe but relatively easy. There just have to be places. While I think SE screws up every now and then I'm sure they made sure there were places a BST could exp just as good as before.