When is it time to leave an endgame shell?

[jyakotsu]

This game has no "niche." You're not fulfilling some small market, you're just strictly less versatile, and as such, less useful, than the guy who has more jobs.

Now, this is not to say that they're bad people, or necessarily bad player, but stop trying to pass it off something that it isn't.

I can guarantee that the same goes both ways. I skimped on jobs that i didn't like to gear as much I.E BLM. Less versatile possibly, but usually those that have/had the one job available do their very best to gear as such. I guarantee the few 1 jobers that i know have better gear on their one specific job than 90% of the server's multi-geared jobbers.

 

[Phraust]

I can guarantee that the same goes both ways. I skimped on jobs that i didn't like to gear as much I.E BLM. Less versatile possibly, but usually those that have/had the one job available do their very best to gear as such. I guarantee the few 1 jobers that i know have better gear on their one specific job than 90% of the server's multi-geared jobbers.

Not that this is even remotely related to the topic, But I also find most "one-Jobbers" are also horribly bad at their job... It takes perspective to learn your job. I nevewr understood how bad a thief I was until I leveled War, and I never realised how bad other thieves were until I leveld Drk, and more importantly I never knew how good some thieves were Until I leveled Sam.

 

[toqabowl]

Offtopic also:

I was a "1-jobber" for about a year and a half, but thankfully(to others) I was good at my job and knew what todo compared to most others with only 1 75^^

 

[Pompidou]

I'm still a one jobber. I've only got blm to 75. The way I see it, I could level a more useful job to 75, and never see Blm again, or I could level a less useful job and never use it. If you're a melee and you want to melee in endgame, don't level bard. Sometimes, sticking with one job is the only way to ensure you're having the most fun you can in any group event. Most people level their favorite job first, I imagine. I stick with blm only, because it's all I want to do. I can't speak for my quality compared to other blms who multijob, because I tend to keep to myself, so I'll just agree with everyone that most blms are probably better than me. I neither level multiple jobs nor take part in endgame or Dynamis. I can't claim to prove anyone wrong on that count. I can say that I'm a good enough blm for most things, (can land a timely stun, sleep, etc, damage isn't crappy). Because I haven't levelled anything that I don't find fun, I'm assured to be having a good time in anything I'm invited to.

 

[Sharpe]

I don't agree with either side of the "If you have 1 job at 75 you are better at it than people who have more 75 jobs" or the "If you have more jobs at 75 you're better at your jobs than someone who doesn't".

At the end of the day if you're good at your job, you're good at your job. It doesn't matter how many 75's you have if you can't play your job you can't. I have 1 75 (NIN but PLD is 74 so it's as near as makes no difference). I'd like to think i'm a good NIN, i've come across many other 75 NIN's and i've never thought "Wow he's really good what can I learn from him", however lots of times i've thought "Jesus he's shit".

 

[Bajaratt]

I can guarantee that the same goes both ways. I skimped on jobs that i didn't like to gear as much I.E BLM. Less versatile possibly, but usually those that have/had the one job available do their very best to gear as such. I guarantee the few 1 jobers that i know have better gear on their one specific job than 90% of the server's multi-geared jobbers.

Those 90% must not be in the bigger end game shells, or they're just notorious gimps. Just because you gimped your way to 75 on a second job doesn't mean everyone else does it too. I know on my 2nd-5th jobs, my gear was significantly better than on my first job; and that's usually true of most people. Unless you're new to endgame, you can get gear for your other jobs pretty easily; and if you're smart that gear would be useful on several of your jobs.

Even if "specializing" was true, you'd still be less useful overall than someone with multiple jobs. You won't always need another blm, another nin, or another brd; but you might need more of the other.

Plus, there are very few people who stick with only a single job in endgame, most of the life-time single jobbers stay out of endgame. So, while they might have the best gear they can buy, they're significantly less likely to have any of the rare/ex stuff that's better than what you get off the AH.

I'm still a one jobber. I've only got blm to 75. The way I see it, I could level a more useful job to 75, and never see Blm again, or I could level a less useful job and never use it. If you're a melee and you want to melee in endgame, don't level bard. Sometimes, sticking with one job is the only way to ensure you're having the most fun you can in any group event. Most people level their favorite job first, I imagine. I stick with blm only, because it's all I want to do. I can't speak for my quality compared to other blms who multijob, because I tend to keep to myself, so I'll just agree with everyone that most blms are probably better than me. I neither level multiple jobs nor take part in endgame or Dynamis. I can't claim to prove anyone wrong on that count. I can say that I'm a good enough blm for most things, (can land a timely stun, sleep, etc, damage isn't crappy). Because I haven't levelled anything that I don't find fun, I'm assured to be having a good time in anything I'm invited to.

The solution to that is what you should be doing all along, only level jobs you like. If you level a job you don't like just because it'll be better for you from an endgame standpoint; then of course you're going to be unhappy about having to play as them all the time.

 

[Necrosis]

I'm still a one jobber. I've only got blm to 75. The way I see it, I could level a more useful job to 75, and never see Blm again...

I can somewhat relate to this, but not on BLM. RNG and THF were my first jobs to 75, and leveling BRD after that kind of phased them out; I didn't get to go on THF much anymore, lol. I play BRD/BLM/RDM pretty equally nowadays, though (in terms of endgame use).

 

[hellstorm]

If you're inviting 60-65s to your "endgame" shell, you can't be taken seriously, rofl.


Obviously, but that's not the point. Not all jobs are good for everything and it just helps to have other jobs when certain situations call for certain setups.

I said can do sky and dynamis never said, "should", in fact I said, "not saying they should". Being in endgame take away time, and at 65 you will be unlikely do much due to the difference in player/mob level. That however is not to say that one can't start endgame at 65. I remember when that use to be the minimal level to get into sky/dynamis 70 for dd. Though I'll say again so it is crystal clear I would not advise someone to start sky or sea till you hit 75 and done both story lines.


Yes A career Blm will be less useful then someone who has lets say Blm and Thf. However if that 1 Blm is good, your other Blms wont have to come Blm they can come something else and that career Blm should shine above most if not all your other Blms because his merits and gear are devoted to that job. When you start leveling more then 1 job like Blm and Thf then you have to start splitting gear and merits. Sharpe said it best neither is better, neither is worse, point I'm trying to make is you don't need multiple jobs, and that there are a lot of people that are content with just one.

There are 2 sides of a coin neither are bad.

Also kairi I'm not trying derail anything, I just replying to the comment which was post no different then any other person on these boards.

 

[Jeska]

I don't agree with either side of the "If you have 1 job at 75 you are better at it than people who have more 75 jobs" or the "If you have more jobs at 75 you're better at your jobs than someone who doesn't".

Is that like a 'Jack of all trades, master of none?'

Tell that to people with multiple relics.

They need some gear to dress up their many manniquins.

 

[Blazeoffury]

I said can do sky and dynamis never said, "should", in fact I said, "not saying they should". Being in endgame take away time, and at 65 you will be unlikely do much due to the difference in player/mob level. That however is not to say that one can't start endgame at 65. I remember when that use to be the minimal level to get into sky/dynamis 70 for dd. Though I'll say again so it is crystal clear I would not advise someone to start sky or sea till you hit 75 and done both story lines.


Yes A career Blm will be less useful then someone who has lets say Blm and Thf. However if that 1 Blm is good, your other Blms wont have to come Blm they can come something else and that career Blm should shine above most if not all your other Blms because his merits and gear are devoted to that job. When you start leveling more then 1 job like Blm and Thf then you have to start splitting gear and merits. Sharpe said it best neither is better, neither is worse, point I'm trying to make is you don't need multiple jobs, and that there are a lot of people that are content with just one.

There are 2 sides of a coin neither are bad.

Also kairi I'm not trying derail anything, I just replying to the comment which was post no different then any other person on these boards.

But with recent updates, there isn't really much merits to actually be shared, the only ones would be you might lvl STR instead of INT for blm, other then that at least 2 jobs can be fully merited with ease.

Also about gear, why would you be splitting it, get gear for both jobs to be fully geared, and if you want to use that whole "i don't have time to farm" line then get ready for the "then i don't have time for your lazy ass in my linkshell" line right back. Yes that may seem a little harsh/elitest, but damnit not everyone is cut out for endgame, and if you can't be bothered to fully gear your jobs then you shouldn't bother with endgame at all.

That being said (this is also what Necro, Mara, and Baja have been saying), having more then one job(that SHOULD BE fully geared) makes you more versitle, thus more useful to any linkshell. Being more valuable makes you attain a greater chance at obtaining much rarer items such as Novio earrings, Adaman Hauberk, Koenig Body, Dalmy, etc.... After you get all of that... you will be at a much higher 'level' then that one job person because you can perform more for your linkshell, so it can reward you more and faster then a one jobbed person.

 

[Pompidou]

The only distinctions merits really force on you, and exclusive equipment used to force on you, before SE changed it, was whether you're a melee, mage or tank. Enmity merits are one example of this. If you clump similar jobs into these spheres, you can easily make the best use of your merit time, since many will overlap favorably, especially for melees. However, having a whole bunch of jobs that do the same thing defeats the whole purpose. How much more value will you bring to your LS by having War, Sam, Drg and Mnk all to 75? Granted they each have small niches in which they distinguish themselves, but in my oppinion, diversifying yourself for the sake of linkshell usefulness requires just that: diversity. If you play a widely divergent list of job roles, from healer to melee DD, to tank, support and nuker, your non jobspecific merits might be stretched thin. Even in the case of the weaponmaster I described as not being especially diverse despite a plethora of 75 jobs, s/he'd be hard pressed to cap weapon skills for all those jobs. So, in conclusion, levelling multiple jobs is easily possible, but only certain jobs mesh well merit and equipmentwise, and those two considerations are important in being the best you can be. It seems being the best and being versatile are at odds with each other. You'll have to decide which is the lesser of the two evils.

 

[hellstorm]

But with recent updates, there isn't really much merits to actually be shared, the only ones would be you might lvl STR instead of INT for blm, other then that at least 2 jobs can be fully merited with ease.

Also about gear, why would you be splitting it, get gear for both jobs to be fully geared, and if you want to use that whole "i don't have time to farm" line then get ready for the "then i don't have time for your lazy ass in my linkshell" line right back. Yes that may seem a little harsh/elitest, but damnit not everyone is cut out for endgame, and if you can't be bothered to fully gear your jobs then you shouldn't bother with endgame at all.

That being said (this is also what Necro, Mara, and Baja have been saying), having more then one job(that SHOULD BE fully geared) makes you more versitle, thus more useful to any linkshell. Being more valuable makes you attain a greater chance at obtaining much rarer items such as Novio earrings, Adaman Hauberk, Koenig Body, Dalmy, etc.... After you get all of that... you will be at a much higher 'level' then that one job person because you can perform more for your linkshell, so it can reward you more and faster then a one jobbed person.

Well not really because it should take you longer to obtain all those item then a person that has 2 different jobs. use blm and thf because it the 2 I've been using. Blm wants what from endgame? dalmat, novio, A hands, 7 eyes, prudence torque. Thief wants N. Gear, pixie earring, love torque, ridill. So you telling me that a person with both those jobs are going get all that gear faster then someone that has only blm? No, normally goes to participation/time in shell the thf/blm going be spending alot more points to get his gear then the person who has only blm. Eventually the duel job will have it, but most likely the single job will get all his items first. Now this changes maybe if you have say War and Drk leveled then there a good shot that you get a e body over someone that has only war depending time/participation in shell.

please note i said want not need I know blm don't need half that stuff but they could want.

 

[Blazeoffury]

Well not really because it should take you longer to obtain all those item then a person that has 2 different jobs. use blm and thf because it the 2 I've been using. Blm wants what from endgame? dalmat, novio, A hands, 7 eyes, prudence torque. Thief wants N. Gear, pixie earring, love torque, ridill. So you telling me that a person with both those jobs are going get all that gear faster then someone that has only blm? No, normally goes to participation/time in shell the thf/blm going be spending alot more points to get his gear then the person who has only blm. Eventually the duel job will have it, but most likely the single job will get all his items first. Now this changes maybe if you have say War and Drk leveled then there a good shot that you get a e body over someone that has only war depending time/participation in shell.

please note i said want not need I know blm don't need half that stuff but they could want.

Except for the fact that if someone had thf and blm leveled, there is a much higher chance that they could then participate in every single event, where before they couldn't go to some events because they needed a thf, or a blm and they didn't have that leveled yet. Over time, an event here, and an event there all add up and will net you a lot more points which is why someone with multiple jobs will and should have more and better gear from the ls faster.

 

[Kairiboo]

I have to agree with Bajaratt on this one. I know my first job was horribly gimp compared to my following jobs. Not because I enjoyed the job any less or wanted to be 'gimpy'. I simply didn't have the acess to the gear that I wanted/needed yet. Not everyone skimps on following jobs they don't enjoy as much. Which as someone else commented on... if you don't like the job as much. Don't level it. Certainly if it's a high priority job and you know you'll get 'stuck' on it. I'm not saying 'one jobbers' are bad or worse than others but they are definitely less flexible.

 

[Necrosis]

Blm wants what from endgame? novio, prudence torque. Thief wants N. Gear, love torque

fixed; pixie/ahands aren't exactly rare and aren't "big" items to get. lol@ putting ridill on a thf's want list, anyone who lots that thing for their THF only is a goddamned lootwhore.

So you telling me that a person with both those jobs are going get all that gear faster then someone that has only blm?

Obviously not, but is your argument that leveling another job isn't good because it'll take you longer to gear more jobs?

 

[Darby]

I have to agree with Bajaratt on this one. I know my first job was horribly gimp compared to my following jobs. Not because I enjoyed the job any less or wanted to be 'gimpy'. I simply didn't have the acess to the gear that I wanted/needed yet. Not everyone skimps on following jobs they don't enjoy as much. Which as someone else commented on... if you don't like the job as much. Don't level it. Certainly if it's a high priority job and you know you'll get 'stuck' on it. I'm not saying 'one jobbers' are bad or worse than others but they are definitely less flexible.

Kari

 

[hellstorm]

fixed; pixie/ahands aren't exactly rare and aren't "big" items to get. lol@ putting ridill on a thf's want list, anyone who lots that thing for their THF only is a goddamned lootwhore.


Obviously not, but is your argument that leveling another job isn't good because it'll take you longer to gear more jobs?

hence why I said want and not need. As for pixes bet there few thf out there would say different.

Never said leveling another was not good. I said "it not the only way". Some are content with one and enjoy doing events on that one job to say that it hurt them in doing events is bull because it attendance that count even if the blm is a getto healer he is still doing something. Even though I can't think of 1 mob that BLM are not good on outside of that mamook king nm no one kills. As for melee one as good as any other all have there up and downs but are interchangeable.

 

[Jeska]

I have to agree with Bajaratt on this one. I know my first job was horribly gimp compared to my following jobs. Not because I enjoyed the job any less or wanted to be 'gimpy'. I simply didn't have the acess to the gear that I wanted/needed yet. Not everyone skimps on following jobs they don't enjoy as much. Which as someone else commented on... if you don't like the job as much. Don't level it. Certainly if it's a high priority job and you know you'll get 'stuck' on it. I'm not saying 'one jobbers' are bad or worse than others but they are definitely less flexible.

I agree, leveling Pld to 75 first I thought it would always be my main job, and people told me that they are often needed in sky, well unfortunately there are a lot of Plds out there and only so many things to tank. I learned to adapt and raise more jobs to 75 I could use or hopefully be of use in. My mage jobs are in more demand in end game now.

Its suprising (to me anyway) that this time last year all I had was Pld at 75 and I was just joining my second ever end game shell.

 

[jamal]

To play devil's advocate...

You don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure this game out. There's people posting in this thread with multiple 75's that I know for a fact are hindrances to the shell because they don't understand the mechanics of one, let alone many.

If you have the time to properly equip and give attention to multiple jobs performing multiple roles, then by all means do it. If you don't, then don't waste the time leveling the jobs...there's little else in this game that upsets me more than seeing someone with multiple 75's running around with nq staves, nq amemits, nq str or int rings (to name a few).

 

[Raesvelg]

On the subject of when to leave: When you're satisfied that you owe nothing to anyone, and when you find that the activity in question is no longer fun for you. Part of my admission on the subject of endgame shells that do everything is that while they may occasionally seem to "poach" members from other shells, there are definite advantages of having a shell do everything under the same points system, thus giving its members substantial options as to what to do, and help keep people from getting burnt out on particular events.

On the subject of multiple 75 jobs: I have but two, my PLD and my DRK. In each case, I approached the job seriously, tried my damndest to be the best I could at it, and get the best gear that was available to me and that suited the roles for which I used the job. While my PLD may have started out fairly mediocre in gear and my DRK fared far better thanks to my later, greater, resources, that matters far less to me than the attitude. I know too damn many people that have a ton of jobs that they play poorly. If you're not willing to learn how to do the job right, and not willing to put for the effort to gear it properly, you shouldn't really consider it to be one of your "jobs".