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Firestreak said:
I don't know I've been playing WHM recently and I find that I've had to use erase a LOT. No for the most part I must erase to kill slow, like for example spiders in quicksand caves. I need to erase evasion down on nin or war tank and FAST. I need to erase burn frost drown ext. Personally I would feel pretty ashamed to tell a ninja all decked out with 800k+ in evasion gear it's all screwed over by evasion down that I can't erase.
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yup
i agree

i feel its retarded that i shell out almost 1 mil in pre 60 gear with another 2 or more million in gear when i hit 60+ for a PALADIN, trying to make myself the best PLD when other people will slack off and in essence counter the effort I've put in. Simple things like getting a darkstaff for my PLD (which yes is CHEAP and i'm not saying im rich for having one ~.~ ), and HQ Rings, HQ foods, HQ armor, are all so that i know i'm offering my best to a PT. I want others to return the favor too. I dont want to be decked out and find out my DDs in my PT dont have sniper rings. It is better to have erase in case it has to be used than not having it and saying "well its only a rare occasion that i need it this time... it's fine." It isn't fine, and you are basically cheating the other players who put in their time. Sure you can say "this and that wears out quickly so i dont need erase" but if you had it, you could take it off right away and improve efficiency.
 
I don't know I've been playing WHM recently and I find that I've had to use erase a LOT. No for the most part I must erase to kill slow, like for example spiders in quicksand caves. I need to erase evasion down on nin or war tank and FAST. I need to erase burn frost drown ext. Personally I would feel pretty ashamed to tell a ninja all decked out with 800k+ in evasion gear it's all screwed over by evasion down that I can't erase.
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lol, wat lvl is your white mage? i haven't seen evasion down since the citadel, lol. and i've happened against bio 3 when my party accidnently pulled a magic pot in upper delkfutts, and happened against bind and choke with the ranger accidently aggroing a manticore in onzozo. i am a decked out white mage, granted, i could upgrade some of my gear, and i'm currently working on increaseing my pocket change to upgrade a select few things on Zanaga. i bent over backwards to get erase, and find this flame on the message boards days after i do so, wow, such a happy day, i bet any of the other high lvl white mages could agree with that. i have yet to tell a melee how to do his job. besides, it's only spider slow you need erase for, and only spider slow, i've seen crawler slow negated by my haste spells. i'll cast haste on my PLD or NIN and the crawler uses his sticky thread, and it's resisted, but when haste is off, it seems to stick. the main debuff effects i've seen in the longest time, are paralyze, poison, disease, petrify, silence, and slow reversible by haste. there are alot of mobs in the game, mabye there are mobs that do stat downs and stuff around my lvl, i really don't know, people seem to like onzozo alot, heck, it's a little bit more work with all the paralyna and silena spells i gotta cast, but i have fun there, i dont' mind the extra work.

i'm not going to tell a melee how to play their job, so why do melee like to tell me how to play mine? i haven't seen anything like this since some guy telling me over party chat to use cure II more then cure at lvl 26 in batilla, proclaiming they were a high lvl white mage. it was rude, they coulda sent it though tell as a tip, but i haven't seen anything about my white mage skills since. This thread has been completely uncalled for, I know krono hasn't reached a lvl 60 job yet, cause he's talking about fighting spiders, which are around lvl 45... i think i partied once in quicksand caves fighting spiders, it is possible he's around lvl 52 in boyhada tree, but i never had a problem with people yelling at me for erase when i didn't have it back then, those spiders were too easy. even without me having erase, we were chaining to 5 and 6.

btw, white mages, are more then just raise II and III, stona, and cure V (which procudes no hate, and i can currently cure 668 HP with), people so commonly overlook the regen spells, regen II is always my first spell cast on the tank, unless they are NIN, then it's second to haste alone.
 
All bats and beetles do evasion down... and I like to go to the leveling spots that are less crowded. like Gustav, Behemoth's Domain, Quicksand caves. All of these places have mobs with evasion down.
 
well if you play Final Crab Fantasy 11 you wont need erase :p. If that's how your WHM career turned out, i'm sorry i wish you had more fun because crabs get old fast.

Onzozo is a special case, its the only time in your entire career of 75 levels your going to actually fight toramas. Toramas don't have eraseable stat downs, just para and silence (i think* its been rather a long time)

Pugils also do evasion down and slow, and i believe pugil slow overwrites haste although im not 100% sure, you will fight these on cape terrigan.

Anticans have a gravity move which may or may not need to be erased depending on your party, if it does gravity then sand trap it can kill the mages easily before the tank gets in range to provoke it(being most mages are out of range of antican silence, provoke radius may not be able to hit.)

Of course you can avoid fighting these. You can avoid anything. You can fight crabs and crawlers from 1-75. But if the only reason your party can't level in a less crowded zone on less camped mobs is your lacking a status heal, how do you feel about that? EXP per hour in out of the way places is far better than the set and narrow path Allakazahm says to go.

Out of party, on missions, quests, things you do solo or with a partner it can be a lifesaver. Perhaps the paladin in your exp pt can survive with VIT down. But the monk tanking coffer key mobs for someone in the linkshell while you heal sure cant. i could list more examples.

Maybe we shouldnt compare it to sniper, throw it up on the table with ABSORB-DEX. also 300k. Used.... maybe twice an exp pt, if i'm bored and want to watch the animation. Used a lot more in onzozo than anywhere else, (if abs-agi fails to stick i cast dex so at least i get some accuracy out of the deal). Not a very useful spell, but because of its ~rarity~ its expensive. Worth 300k? no. nonono. did i know that when i bought it? yep.

I'm not even yelling at you guys because obviously you HAVE the spell and are only arguing its usefulness. I shut up now.

PS. Yes crawler slow is weak and pitiful and won't overwrite haste :)
PPS. :P rones. I think you use it more than you notice.
PPPS. Krono is an idiot, ignore him ^^.
 
lol, i see your point, i don't follow allakhazam, i just use the site to look up items personally, but my parties always avoided the pugs, never asked if i had erase, just didn't liek the idea of screw driver ^^; and anticans, never had a party try do fight them, and from what i've been told, the xp isn't worth the hastle they pose. but i've only been discussing party uses, i see where it's useful solo, doing missions, etc. but generally in parties, it's uses are almost nill
 
Mistaya said:
well if you play Final Crab Fantasy 11 you wont need erase :p. If that's how your WHM career turned out, i'm sorry i wish you had more fun because crabs get old fast.

Onzozo is a special case, its the only time in your entire career of 75 levels your going to actually fight toramas. Toramas don't have eraseable stat downs, just para and silence (i think* its been rather a long time)

Pugils also do evasion down and slow, and i believe pugil slow overwrites haste although im not 100% sure, you will fight these on cape terrigan.

Anticans have a gravity move which may or may not need to be erased depending on your party, if it does gravity then sand trap it can kill the mages easily before the tank gets in range to provoke it(being most mages are out of range of antican silence, provoke radius may not be able to hit.)



Of course you can avoid fighting these. You can avoid anything. You can fight crabs and crawlers from 1-75. But if the only reason your party can't level in a less crowded zone on less camped mobs is your lacking a status heal, how do you feel about that? EXP per hour in out of the way places is far better than the set and narrow path Allakazahm says to go.

Out of party, on missions, quests, things you do solo or with a partner it can be a lifesaver. Perhaps the paladin in your exp pt can survive with VIT down. But the monk tanking coffer key mobs for someone in the linkshell while you heal sure cant. i could list more examples.

Maybe we shouldnt compare it to sniper, throw it up on the table with ABSORB-DEX. also 300k. Used.... maybe twice an exp pt, if i'm bored and want to watch the animation. Used a lot more in onzozo than anywhere else, (if abs-agi fails to stick i cast dex so at least i get some accuracy out of the deal). Not a very useful spell, but because of its ~rarity~ its expensive. Worth 300k? no. nonono. did i know that when i bought it? yep.

I'm not even yelling at you guys because obviously you HAVE the spell and are only arguing its usefulness. I shut up now.

PS. Yes crawler slow is weak and pitiful and won't overwrite haste :)
PPS. :P rones. I think you use it more than you notice.
PPPS. Krono is an idiot, ignore him ^^.
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:shock: :shock:

how did a moron like this become a level71 drk?

/sigh.
 
I have an extremly hard time getting money.. Allakhazam says that it drops from BCNMs.. could someone help me get it that way?
 
Erase drops form the lvl 40 BCNMs, basicaly you need an all ranger or BLM party with a WHM thrown in and maybe a tank depending on which of the circles you do. Also do not expect to get the drop, no one wants to just let the WHM "take" a 300k scroll. I probaly would not either. So just do it with your LS.
 
ArmachiA said:
xKronox said:
:shock: :shock:

how did a moron like this become a level71 drk?

/sigh.
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your level is not a judge on how moronic you are or aren't


just saying ^^;
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eh hem, "there is no rank or level that is a cure for stupidity".

BUT I'D THINK YOU LEARN A THING OR TWO BEFORE LV71 FOR FUCKS SAKE.
 
Direwolf said:
Erase drops form the lvl 40 BCNMs, basicaly you need an all ranger or BLM party with a WHM thrown in and maybe a tank depending on which of the circles you do. Also do not expect to get the drop, no one wants to just let the WHM "take" a 300k scroll. I probaly would not either. So just do it with your LS.
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If you do the mandy one a good pt set up is brd, pld, drk, whm, 2nd healer(smn or rdm or another whm) and a blm. we did it many times with this set up. got 2 erase from 6 wins. also it might be hard to find a pt that will let u have the scroll XD most will say use the money u make from the BCNMs to buy the scroll >.>
 
I have to agree. I may only be level 51, but I expected a better general level of party knowledge and intelligence.

As for Erase? I may get it for 64SMN, but as much as a 'perfectionist elitist fuck' that I can be, I didn't see the need to get a 300-400k spell for a subjob that I'll only have for 4 more levels.

For the career WHMs, think of it as 600 teletaxis. 300 if they're to Altep or Vazhl. Even a non-refundable 300k is still just 300k. You will make the gil back.
 
I didnt read all the posts, 7 pages, just the 1st page. But the replies from the mage community really annoy me. Of course, its what id expect, having heard it all before. "Dispel is 60k! Erase 300k? omgx0rz wtf!"

Ok, heres reality.

Ochiudos kote: 500k when i bought it, up to 600k.
Snipers ring: 500k when i bought it, 650 and rising
Jujitsu gi: 100k when i bought it, 300k and rising
Valkyries mask: 250k steady

Add that up. Kote, 2 snipers, a samurai will Never take off, snipers you will Never resell if you plan on lvling another mellee. So dont give me that "you can sell it back" crap. we can, but we wont. period.

mnk, crosscounters: 2.4 mil for those that cant afford those, TM hooks +1 40k, TM hooks +2 500k, and then the spartans are 650k

Erase? i could sell my valk mask and buy erase, quit the goddamn whining. And the valk mask is less than 25% of my total gear cost.

So, when i arrive at camp in all my shinies, and i hear from the mages "i dont have erase, i dont have dispel, blah blah blah........." i want to murder your children. 300k. Light and dark staves are falling in price, melle gear is rising, get off your lazy goddam asses and Buy your spells, ffs, astral rings x2 cost the same as 1 of my rings, 1! get out and farm/fish craft, i dont care if you never USE the damn spell, i will at least have Marginal respect for you if you have it. I heard a whm in my pt say he refused to buy erase, because it was 200k. i can only say, well, im glad youre not a mellee. Youd be lvling in that summerfest robe, and a pumpkin hat.

Heres the part where all the mages cry about how hard it is for mages to farm........

dont farm. I dont. I didnt buy all my gear farming tigers in BD, thats a slow ass way to make 2 mil. If youre lvl 40+ and dont have a consistent way to make substantial steady income, you are a dink. Do BCNM's, get a craft, fish, whatever you have to do because goddammit its waaaaaaaaay overdue. lvl 40 costs alot for all melees, the eastern jobs in particular. so as the original poster said, if you tell your sam or mnk or nin that you dont have erase because its 300k or 200k or whatever consider yourself lucky if they dont spit on you.

Btw, erase is for fighting gobs, alchemists etc, and other spellcasting mobs like bones and weapons. Bio, Dia. these are important things to not have on your tanks/primary dds.

So tell me you never use it, thats ok, i believe you. i dont care if you dont use it. You will. i paid 80k for a pulling bow. i dont sub rng......

A Pulling Bow.

Because my job can use it and its the best bow in that lvl range.

200k, 300k, 60k for dispel?
thats total chump change to most DD's at lvl 40. Chump. Change.
Have some love and respect for your job.

Heres the part where they say "hey kitty, you so damn rich, its Chump Change huh?? so Buy it for me and stfu n00b!"

Why should i buy you anything? My pts have given you piggyback xp for 40 lvls now, i owe you nothing. There are plenty of whms who earn their keep, but there are an astonishing number of them who just plain leech.
id rather have a rdm main heal honestly, than a whm who doesnt have erase, but then id just have to deal with a rdm who whines about dispel being 60k.......

So cry me a river, build me a bridge, stand in the middle of it and start fishing. Or kill the fungaur on the other side, or the dhalmels, or Anything, do something for the love of god, 300k is NOT EXPENSIVE!
 
OK, read a little bit more of the thread, and came on a few examples of the "whms cant farm" argument i had alluded to (and expected). Take a lvl 40 samurai, or 40 monk. they need all that good gear, all them shinies, and maybe if they have no craft lvled they run out and start a-farmin. the example i had in mind was a 60+ish whm train farming lizzies in the dunes. Ok. What, exactly, do you think that a lvl 40 mellee can farm that "sells for really expensive"? Cause if there is something, then hot damn, tell me! i missed it! a lvl 40 whm can farm pretty much just as efficiently as a 40 sam, which is to say not well. fungaurs, lizards, bats. the few gobbues in pashow that we Can kill are a) few and far between, b) heavily overcamped. So what else? crawlers? tahrongi, thas pretty much it, maybe some in buburimu. I can kill them, a lvl 40 whm can too. the farming options of 40 whm and 40 sam/nin/mnk/pld etc are basically the same, in terms of mobs you can FARM. that is not to say mobs you can KILL. A whm 40 will get owned by things a sam that lvl can Kill, but wed be half dead after the battle and face 2-4 minutes of downtime resting hp back. That is NOT farming. So as i said:

Dont farm. at that lvl a whm should long ago have realised that their farming abilities would not suffice to support their gear/spell costs into the 50's and above, as things increase in price, and should have planned accordingly, lvling a craft or getting into practice camping Monster signa or Travellers mantles or the like. This game has 1 constant: Money, you need it, more and more of it as you lvl.

This may be just my opinion, but i think honestly, anyone who is Relieved to see upon reaching camp that their other pt members are in less than stellar gear, therefore alleviating their Own embarrasment over not having that spell or pricey item, should seriously rethink their source of income. I would suggest lvling Alchemy skill for those who are interested in lvling a craft, it is a fairly fun discipline with which you can, if done intelligently, make a steady and sizable PROFIT training from 1 to 50, and possibly beyond.

And as for mithe likening erase to a haub +1 or a scorp harness +1, thats just frigging retarded, choke on whatever youre smoking please, my xp setup is worth total 1.5 mil, so i already meet your expectations of having alot of HQ gear and badass expensive stuff, so youd Better have erase. right?

Oh, and as an aside, when i saved up for and bought all the gear i have, my highest job was lvl 40. so the argument about 1st timers not having that stuff, its just not that easy for me to let 300 measley grand slide. all it takes is some dedication and love for your job. Its kinda like a ranger using a boomerang, cause you know, arrows arent free and stuff........
 
Personally I still do not see what I am doing wrong. I blew 10k to get my Gold Smiting up to level 11 so I could make Silver Ingot, which everyone says are actually profitable. I go and check the AH’s for Silver Ore or Silver Beast coins and the price on them compared to the Selling Price of Silver Ingots is a money loss and not a small one at that. I finally find someone who is selling the materials cheap, so I make a few, put them up on AH and had to change the price on them twice because the price keeps falling. I think I made around 50 gil on each. So I figure hey, lets go farm the materials. Head to Giddus(sp) and farm for 6 hours and got a 2 Silver Beast coins, 5 necklaces, a scroll of sneak and a small amount of Gil Drop.

I do not expect anyone to give me the Gil, but I do at least expect guidance on how to obtain it or the help to get it. I personally think that is only fare of the people who are expecting me to have the item.

Also talking about BCNM40 to a Red Mage is pointless since it is expect we have Dispel by level 32 and demanded we have the spell by level 34. Also most Red Mages pay close to 70 to 80k for Dispel. I paid 67k for mine.
 
Pascal said:
Personally I still do not see what I am doing wrong. I blew 10k to get my Gold Smiting up to level 11 so I could make Silver Ingot, which everyone says are actually profitable. I go and check the AH’s for Silver Ore or Silver Beast coins and the price on them compared to the Selling Price of Silver Ingots is a money loss and not a small one at that. I finally find someone who is selling the materials cheap, so I make a few, put them up on AH and had to change the price on them twice because the price keeps falling. I think I made around 50 gil on each. So I figure hey, lets go farm the materials. Head to Giddus(sp) and farm for 6 hours and got a 2 Silver Beast coins, 5 necklaces, a scroll of sneak and a small amount of Gil Drop.

I do not expect anyone to give me the Gil, but I do at least expect guidance on how to obtain it or the help to get it. I personally think that is only fare of the people who are expecting me to have the item.

Also talking about BCNM40 to a Red Mage is pointless since it is expect we have Dispel by level 32 and demanded we have the spell by level 34. Also most Red Mages pay close to 70 to 80k for Dispel. I paid 67k for mine.
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I would say level your thf and sub it. I went to giddeus farming for necklaces for Norg fame. In about 4 hours worth od time, I got close to 200 necklaces, 2 stacks of silver coins and a lot of other misc stuff. I wasn't aware that TH had THAT MUCH of an impact, but comparing your results to my own, I am very thankful I took the time to level Thf.
 
For the record I was not train farming either, just wackin one and moving on.
 
Ochiudos kote: 500k when i bought it, up to 600k.
Snipers ring: 500k when i bought it, 650 and rising
Jujitsu gi: 100k when i bought it, 300k and rising
Valkyries mask: 250k steady

Add that up. Kote, 2 snipers, a samurai will Never take off, snipers you will Never resell if you plan on lvling another mellee. So dont give me that "you can sell it back" crap. we can, but we wont. period.

mnk, crosscounters: 2.4 mil for those that cant afford those, TM hooks +1 40k, TM hooks +2 500k, and then the spartans are 650k

Erase? i could sell my valk mask and buy erase, quit the goddamn whining. And the valk mask is less than 25% of my total gear cost.
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Congratulations, you found items more expensive than erase, but you forgot one little thing. All of those are actually useful and have a direct effect on your exp rate. Erase however, has a minor (usually no) effect on your exp rate. Just because an item exists doesn't make it worthwhile (one handed swords for war... :roll: ). Imagine a spell that cost 500k and you used it two times during your entire time from 1-75 (not quite the case with erase). By your logic the money shouldn't matter and you should buy it just because it's there which is simply wasteful. Just because it is avaiable doesn't make it useful.

Yeah your melee job can cost a lot in equip, but then again so can mages. Checked Noble's Tunic for whms lately? There is always something better for you to upgrade to, but everyone has to draw a line somewhere (those without millions to blow on relic and zenith gear). You draw that line by comparing how useful the item will be and its effect on exp to how much it costs. That's why scorp harness+1 isn't usually considered worthwhile, benefit vs cost doesn't balance well. This is the same argument that is made about erase. Sure its a nice spell to have, but its benefit is extremely limited and situational (which can be easily avoided) for the cost to most whm.

Please stop using the argument "Its only gil, just buy it simply because it exists." So many flaws with that view. :?
 
Grieve said:
Why should i buy you anything? My pts have given you piggyback xp for 40 lvls now, i owe you nothing.
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I'm sorry, youve given us WHAT?
 
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