Why did I bother to report a Gil farmer?

[Panthrastorm]

Sculli, You hit it on the nailhead....As long as there is demand there will be a supply. "So it was written, So it shall be told."
:lol:

 

[Panthrastorm]

Hey I hear ya Sabia. It is very frustrating and can pluck your last nerve. Expecially when you feel powerless to stop it. All we can you do is try to play around them.

 

[Glacius]

There's no excuse for buying gil online, if you can't afford your gear and only play once a week, take one of those nights and go farm, stop making excuses and bite the bullet.

It'll get you the gear you need and stop everyone else in game from getting screwed over trying to get gear/gil of their own.

Straight up, I've bought gil in the past and see no reason why I can't in the future. I work very hard at owning my own business and when I log on to play, I want to enjoy the game, not spend countless hours farming for gil. I essentially do that 8+ hours a day in my office. What is the difference?

You claim that gil sellers make it impossible for you to raise the necessary gil...I don't see the validity of the comment. I havn't bought gil in over 3 months and now sustain my own income competing vs. these very gil sellers and I am quite successful. Whats the difference in competing vs. them, or competing vs. people farming their own gil? I see none. Again, what is the difference? If there were no gil sellers, they would be replaced by people farming, its the same in the end.

Having said that, I understand how "aggressive" gil sellers ruin areas entirely with their antics. But not all gil sellers are like this. On a few occasions of camping NMs, after I out-claimed supposed gil sellers, I was invited to PT with them to split the cash. These people were very polite and quite helpful. They will leave you mobs, and basically share. Not every gil seller is evil.

There are plenty of opportunities to earn gil for everyone...

 

[Tyrion]

They seem to provide a service to people like me who work and can't play every hour of everyday. Some jobs such as Ranger and Ninja are expensive to keep up at low levels until you can make money on your own.

[sarcasm]You know, you're right. They should sell degrees too! Not everybody has the time to go to college. And children! Not everybody has the time to have a baby, just buy one! Maybe you could hire somebody to raise it for you![/sarcasm]

What irks me is that it not only raises prices from both ends on the auction house, it also cheapens the accomplishments of people who have put in the time and effort to get what they want in the game.

If one doesn't have the time to play the game, well then, tough shit - one doesn't get to progress as fast. Progression in the game is not something that should have an easy out. Don't have the time? Quit the game, go play something less time-consuming.

Look down at my job levels - I've been playing for over six months. I get two nights a week, maybe 3-4 hours at a time to level. I get about one-two hours every other day to farm. (This is the reason I get so pissed off at incompetent parties wasting my time in the dunes.)

And another thing - I have seen the face of evil - I looked at the IGE website. They mention there that they "have saved players literally thousands of hours of playtime!"

Then why the fuck is one playing a game, if you're just going to skip out on it? Why not buy, say, Final Fantasy X - and then hire somebody to beat it for you!

/seethe

 

[Dirgesong]

Buying gil or any online currency is cheating.

It's no different than using a gameshark to make your gameplay experience easier. Generating finances and buying the best gear is part of the game, by skipping that step, it is just cheating.

And this isn't even touching the ramifications that it has on Economy of the game itself.

 

[Fellina]

Gil selling is a touchy subject to say the least. Since SE seems to have no interest in keeping this in check, the only thing that keeps it under control is the actual demand for services. As long as people are buying gil, there will be sellers. That still doesn't make it right, though.

As the player base has expanded, the armies of gil sellers have kept up with the demand. Just about every person I've talked to in game or on boards like these has had an encounter with them- and for the most part, they're NOT nice guys like the one you met, Glacius. Just about any leveling area you go to these days has a group of crappy equipped, poorly played people xping just to get their DRG/THF up so they can hunt Stroper Chyme, or camp the tower, or whatever.

So the question comes to be- when will this "industry" finally cap out? The only end I can forsee is when every single gil-making scheme in the game has its own army of gil sellers forcing out any legitimate players who need cash. Can you imagine it- 5 /anon players camping even the lowly mobs like Spiny Spipi, or Jolly Green? It may happen- hell, just look at that thread about Stroper Chyme. He was TOTALLY uncamped just 3-4 months ago, now there's an army there 24/7. Or what if the gil sellers get organized enough to do BCNM? Imagine trying to make gil off Erase when there's 45 on the market already. The gil sellers have even moved into things like the Teleport industry of late.

So what will happen, when there are so many gil sellers that making gil for the average player is not a question of "how long do I have to farm?" but rather "how much gil will I have to buy?". Only one thing- the player base will vanish. Which will end the gil selling industry, sure- but at what price?

I could make a long winded economic argument about the value of the currency and whatnot, but economics aren't my strong point. I'll let others argue that. What I do know is that some of the gil sellers are the most mean, nasty, vicious players on the server. And those that aren't, are still knowingly performing an act that, given time, can ruin the gameplay of legitimate players who play the game for enjoyment, and NOT just to make an easy buck.

If you feel the need to buy gil, you shouldn't be playing this game. "Well, I like to xp, but don't like farming" is no excuse. Making gil is a part of this game. If you don't like it, then why are you even paying money to play? There are lots of other MMO's out there that I'm sure you'll like better. Go and play them, instead of supporting an industry that jacks over the player base just so your lazy behind can have all the best gear with none of the effort.

 

[Sabia]

You claim that gil sellers make it impossible for you to raise the necessary gil...I don't see the validity of the comment. I havn't bought gil in over 3 months and now sustain my own income competing vs. these very gil sellers and I am quite successful. Whats the difference in competing vs. them, or competing vs. people farming their own gil? I see none. Again, what is the difference? If there were no gil sellers, they would be replaced by people farming, its the same in the end.

[/b

What's the difference? Hmm gee...lets think! These people can make a living off doing this so they never take breaks. When they end up actually getting the item they go sell it and come straight back to get it again. Normal people have other things to do in game. If I have competition with a normal player for say...Stray Mary. They get her first, they get the drop - go sell it and then go do something else. Now lets do this with a gill seller. I hunt the Emp/Stray Mary/Hoo/whatever. They beat me to the draw, run to the AH to sell the item. Meanwhile I stay there waiting for the next spawn and they come back right away.

Normal players have other things to do, and have common courtesy in-game. Gill sellers do not. A normal player in say...mining will let you mine the whole spot if you find it first. A gill seller pulls out the pick axe and mines your spots. Same applies with harvesting.

It's devestating on the economy because drops that I sell stacks of have absolutely plummetted in price. The reason they used to cost so much is because they were hard to get and took a lot of time to farm, hence them staying expensive. Throw someone into the mix that camps this shit 24/7 and you end up with the issue of too much supply for the demand..hence fucking over normal people who don't get paid to do this shit and just want to enjoy the game with good gear.

 

[Glacius]

What's the difference? Hmm gee...lets think! These people can make a living off doing this so they never take breaks. When they end up actually getting the item they go sell it and come straight back to get it again. Normal people have other things to do in game. If I have competition with a normal player for say...Stray Mary. They get her first, they get the drop - go sell it and then go do something else. Now lets do this with a gill seller. I hunt the Emp/Stray Mary/Hoo/whatever. They beat me to the draw, run to the AH to sell the item. Meanwhile I stay there waiting for the next spawn and they come back right away.

You essentially just explained any person who is farming for gil. Especially if said person needs to fund a rather large purchase. These same people will get a drop, post it, and return to camp. What I'm saying is that without the service of buying gil, "normal" players will do this very same thing until they can fund what they need. You don't think that "normal" players are this cutthroat? Think again.

Normal players have other things to do, and have common courtesy in-game. Gill sellers do not. A normal player in say...mining will let you mine the whole spot if you find it first. A gill seller pulls out the pick axe and mines your spots. Same applies with harvesting.

What I do agree with you on, is the antics of SOME gil sellers. Not ALL gil sellers are so ignorant that they will steal your mining/logging/harvesting points, nor your mob that your are farming. Like I said before, I understand your frustration about those "aggressive" gil sellers, but there are ways around them and other ways to make money. I prefer to compete vs. them until they change spots.

It's devestating on the economy because drops that I sell stacks of have absolutely plummetted in price. The reason they used to cost so much is because they were hard to get and took a lot of time to farm, hence them staying expensive. Throw someone into the mix that camps this shit 24/7 and you end up with the issue of too much supply for the demand..hence fucking over normal people who don't get paid to do this shit and just want to enjoy the game with good gear.

If the item you farm drops in price due to supply, change items. Adjust with the economy. The fact that prices on various items drop with over-supply only relates to a positive return for crafters who require such materials. I've changed items numerous times and returned to them when the market stabilizes. Again, if gil sellers dissapeared this same phenomena would occur. Increased "normal" players farming would increase supply of items. I agree that it may not be as drastic as those you see with gil sellers, but it would still exist nonetheless.

I have no problem making gil on our server with all of the gil sellers. Its just a matter of adjusting your farming trends. Not everything on our server is so heavily camped that people cannot make money.
[/quote]

 

[Panthrastorm]

:lol: Tyrion you really have a bug up your butt. Damn you sound like you play to feed your family. :? Oh, and if you haven't notice you can get a degree without collage and buy a baby online . (sarcasm) And I am sure it won't be long before you can buy them in game too. Would save a lot of time. The truth of the matter is as long as there is a demand....there will be suppliers and all your putting people down and saying the should not play if they don't have time makes no difference. Your hard work will be cheapened if you let it. I can flip the script say "hey if you don't like the gil sellers then maybe you need to find another game to play and they won't annoy you." And yes I agree it is cheating and the only thing I can do is not buy from them and maybe they will go out of business if everyone does that however, there is not much you can do about it as long as its allowed and whining and bitching just takes away from play time that you paid for. Its a game and ONLY a game. 8)

 

[Sabia]

What's the difference? Hmm gee...lets think! These people can make a living off doing this so they never take breaks. When they end up actually getting the item they go sell it and come straight back to get it again. Normal people have other things to do in game. If I have competition with a normal player for say...Stray Mary. They get her first, they get the drop - go sell it and then go do something else. Now lets do this with a gill seller. I hunt the Emp/Stray Mary/Hoo/whatever. They beat me to the draw, run to the AH to sell the item. Meanwhile I stay there waiting for the next spawn and they come back right away.

You essentially just explained any person who is farming for gil. Especially if said person needs to fund a rather large purchase. These same people will get a drop, post it, and return to camp. What I'm saying is that without the service of buying gil, "normal" players will do this very same thing until they can fund what they need. You don't think that "normal" players are this cutthroat? Think again.

You failed to read the part about people having other things to do in game when they're not gill sellers. Besides you re-itterated my point with the "Until they can fund what they need." Most players who aren't playing FFXI for a living will get what they need and move on. If I'm hunting an NM with a person who's also trying to buy a Vermillion Cloak for example, when they get that cloak they'll go away and I'm all about this.

Most players won't farm 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. They'll farm for what they need and then go level/craft/EP/BCNM Whatever...but they don't farm 24/7. This gives others a chance to camp/farm/etc more effectively. Healthy competition is awesome but this isn't healthy. Having people do shitty things like Cure III you when you're fighting an NM and run, Mine spots you've been tabbing around for the last 3 hours for, drive prices of what used to be lucrative items down doesn't make the game fun, it makes it frustrating.

 

[Tyrion]

Its a game and ONLY a game. 8)

Then give me all your gil. It's just a game, it shouldn't matter to you.

Or just SHUT THE FUCK UP.

 

[Sabia]

By the way I'm not really attacking people directly here. Everyone has a right to play the game how they see fit, and I'm just expressing my frustration and opinion. I like having healthy debate but I've got a headache today and am a little irritable today.

Just expressing my opinion so please take no offense personally.

 

[Glacius]

You failed to read the part about people having other things to do in game when they're not gill sellers. Besides you re-itterated my point with the "Until they can fund what they need." Most players who aren't playing FFXI for a living will get what they need and move on. If I'm hunting an NM with a person who's also trying to buy a Vermillion Cloak for example, when they get that cloak they'll go away and I'm all about this.

When does the new for gil ever stop for that one player that needed the Cloak? It doesn't. If they camp a NM, make money off of it, they will continue to do so to fund a various number of things. Not to mention that if one person does leave becuase the have gotten enough, they are surely to be replaced by another. The cycle remains the same.

Most players won't farm 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. They'll farm for what they need and then go level/craft/EP/BCNM Whatever...but they don't farm 24/7. This gives others a chance to camp/farm/etc more effectively. Healthy competition is awesome but this isn't healthy. Having people do shitty things like Cure III you when you're fighting an NM and run, Mine spots you've been tabbing around for the last 3 hours for, drive prices of what used to be lucrative items down doesn't make the game fun, it makes it frustrating.

Again, I totally agree with you. Those antics are trash. But do you honestly think that if gil sellers dissapeared that these antics would dissapear with them? People are cutthroat. I've had much of this done to me by non-gil selllers.

What I'm getting at is that I don't think our server would become some magical "fair" place if gil sellers dissapeared. Much of the same things we complain about would still exist. We just have to adjust accordingly.

 

[Sabia]

When does the new for gil ever stop for that one player that needed the Cloak? It doesn't. If they camp a NM, make money off of it, they will continue to do so to fund a various number of things. Not to mention that if one person does leave becuase the have gotten enough, they are surely to be replaced by another. The cycle remains the same.

The cycle may repeat itself but there are breaks inbetween. Using my vermillion cloak as an example. It's a 2 million gill item, but whats the point of getting it if you don't take the break to level yourself to 59 to wear it? That's my point. People who don't sell gill have other things to do and take breaks. They may come back to farm for their next big peice of armor but they do other things inbetween giving others a chance to use the same method of obtaining this item.

What I'm getting at is that I don't think our server would become some magical "fair" place if gil sellers dissapeared. Much of the same things we complain about would still exist. We just have to adjust accordingly.

I don't ever expect the game to be "perfect" but i do expect it to be tollerable. I don't want a perfect game, conflict is good and keeps things interesting. However eliminating at least 1/2 of the assholes in the game who use asshole tactics would be a huge improvement. Eliminate Gill selling and you eliminate a lot of the people who use asshole tactics. When it's your paycheque you tend to be a lot more vicious to other people, rather than someone who's playing to enjoy the game.

 

[Panthrastorm]

:lol: Always one in the bunch who can dish it out but can't take it back and if your'e so bad make me STFU. I would sell my gil before I would give it to you. So go ahead and continue having your temper tandrum little boy and then STFU and get a life. :lol:

 

[Sculli]

Here is the bottom line: Since those who have trouble with gil farmers can obviously not do anything to even begin to ruin the gil farmers day, they have two choices, suck it up and play the game, or quit the game.

Or course one can bitch about it all day long, but since bitching really doesn't do anything at all, one may as well stick to the two choices presented above.

I always find it amusing to read "gil buyers are cheating", "gil buyers have less fun", yadda yadda yadda, whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep well at night, but reality is that those who buy virtual goods have just as much, if not more fun, as everyone else.

The sale of virtual goods for real world currency hasn't ruined any game economy yet, FFXI has been around for years, Everquest has been around since 1999, and there are any number of other MMOs which have to deal with the sale or virtual goods in the real world.

All these economies are still running, and they are running just fine. Sure, the sale of virtual goods for real world cash does have an effect on the economy, no one in their right mind would deny that, *but* fact is that no economy has been ruined to a degree that people who do not buy virtual goods can't play the game anymore.

The perhaps best example to illustrate this is moat carp, everyone who's serious abnout fishing needs it, and lots of people sell it, and some people buy lots of gil for real world cash to buy it, and what has that done to the price of a stack? Nothing.

Sure, sales and purchases of virtual goods are on the rise, but overall it's a small portion of the game population that really is so hardcore into the game that they would spend real world cash, beyond the subscription fees, on game items.

Getting pissed about gil sellers is wasted effort, it really is, either be able to look past it and enjoy what the game has to offer, or, if it continues to be source for grief, then perhaps it is time to think about switching to a different MMO, and deal with different farmers there. /shurg

 

[Sabia]

When does the new for gil ever stop for that one player that needed the Cloak? It doesn't. If they camp a NM, make money off of it, they will continue to do so to fund a various number of things. Not to mention that if one person does leave becuase the have gotten enough, they are surely to be replaced by another. The cycle remains the same.

The cycle may repeat itself but there are breaks inbetween. Using my vermillion cloak as an example. It's a 2 million gill item, but whats the point of getting it if you don't take the break to level yourself to 59 to wear it? That's my point. People who don't sell gill have other things to do and take breaks. They may come back to farm for their next big peice of armor but they do other things inbetween giving others a chance to use the same method of obtaining this item.

What I'm getting at is that I don't think our server would become some magical "fair" place if gil sellers dissapeared. Much of the same things we complain about would still exist. We just have to adjust accordingly.

I don't ever expect the game to be "perfect" but i do expect it to be tollerable. I don't want a perfect game, conflict is good and keeps things interesting. However eliminating at least 1/2 of the assholes in the game who use asshole tactics would be a huge improvement. Eliminate Gill selling and you eliminate a lot of the people who use asshole tactics. When it's your paycheque you tend to be a lot more vicious to other people, rather than someone who's playing to enjoy the game.


I agree with you Sculli but bitching about anything in an online community is really useless. However I'm venting. I know nothing really changes and will either accept it or just not deal with online games. Getting things off my chest using an online board about an online game sometimes helps me get over it. Kind of like telling someone about a problem IRL, it doesn't make the problem better but sometimes helps you just deal with it.

I love this game, love the people I've met, hence me still playing it. This is a Flameboard for the Quetzalcoatl server and is probably the perfect place to vent. People come here to bitch about things that they can't change in game. But hey, I never said I was starting a revolution...I'm just venting

 

[Shayla]

Not everything on our server is so heavily camped that people cannot make money.

Just wait, they will eventually do so. Like a normal business, they would want to maximize the potential of making a buck. And I think, it will get to a point where we will have to either deal with putting in the time to farm for gil if you have the time so you can have the gear you want or settle with average gear.

Or protest as a group and stop service for a MONTH, and make sure that Square Enix is fully aware of it. Because then you would be impacting their bottom line. Of course this only works if there is a significant amount. Judging from what I've read, this is highly unlikely.

 

[Pascal]

Take a look at it from this prospective. There is an Item that is only dropped by a NM. This item sells for very high amounts of Gil. Decent parties expect and demand you have this item. You can’t hunt this item, because high level people, Gil Sellers, JP, any other complaint you can think of, are camping the crap out of it 24/7. Thus you are left to buy it from theses same people who are controlling the item and can thus charge large amounts of money for it, since there is no reason for them to drop the price.

So you are left with one of three chooses.

Spend all your time farming, which means you really do not need them item in the first place, because you do not have any time to level.

Buy the Gil online, so you can get back to leveling, which just causes everyone to keep farming the crap out of this item.

Refuse to have the item, and be given the title of Noob, but it will remove the demand off the item, and thus cause prices to fall, to where you can buy the item.

At level 34 RDM, it will cost me 180k to buy the all the equipment that people expect me to have. It will take me approx 2 months and 2 weeks to farm that amount of Gil. (That means doing nothing else, but farming for that whole amount of time). I understand why people are upset about Gil Farming, but I also consider the people who are demanding people have theses items are also contributing to the cause. You want to fix the problem then start with your selves, not the Gil Sellers. If a ranger does not have Snipper Rings, then do not say a word to him. If your Paladin does not have the latest +1 armor, then you leave him alone. It is one thing if a person has on under leveled armor; it is another thing if they don’t have the +1 or rear/ex crap. If we removed the demand for theses items, then Gil Sellers can’t turn a profit. It also means the non Gil Sellers can’t turn a profit either, bring the price down to where it is affordable for the rest of us.

 

[Pascal]

rear/ex was a bad example since they can't be sold, but you understand what I am talking about.