World of Warcraft... what?

CubsWoo

CubsWoo

HO KOGAN
Adventurer
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
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Puppetmaster-Female
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Midgardsormr
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Jadey
Well, I had considered buying a copy of WoW to play while I'm LFG on my Playstation, so I headed to the Blizzard boards to see what the community was like. Let me say, firsthand, that I really don't enjoy MMORPGs with open PvP, but I am willing to try one with good implementation. Or optional PvP (i.e. Ballista.)

One of the first things I see is a THIRTY-FIVE PAGE thread of people cancelling their accounts. Quite a few of them with screenshotted proof. I asked myself, why? What could make such a mass exodus happen?

Then I looked into the new 'honor system.'

Basically, players get rewarded with honor points for killing NPCs and players within a certain level range. It's something like ~12 levels below you and up. The more 'honorable kills' and 'CPs (which you get for assisting in a kill)' the higher rank you get and the more weapons and stuff bestowed to you.

The problem? There is NO penalty for PKing another player, regardless of level. People on multiple threads are talking about PvP servers being plagued with gangs of griefers at every boat/transport. Imagine that, every time you tele-anywhered, or zoned outside of Jeuno, you had to be worried about roving bands of 70+s jumping you 6-on-1 to 'farm' you for honor. Anyone below 55 seems to be treated like a honor resource to the capped and little else. People are saying it's nigh-impossible to XP at those levels because of 60s griefing for honor.

And apparently Blizzard's response is 'wait for Battlegrounds (which, from what I can venture, is a Diorama-style area for enclosed battles.) But it's not like the current batch of PKers are interested in fighting fair right now anyway - what good is adding something like this going to do?

Even the PvE servers, from what I can see, are troubled by this, because just about every goddamn NPC can be killed? Want to complete that quest? Buy that item? Too bad, because someone needed some Honor and decided to take out the NPC. Guess you'll have to wait for him to respawn and hope nobody kills him then. Add to this the lag, the unbalanced forces (some servers are claiming a 3.3:1 Alliance/Horde ratio) and other buggy stuff and I have to ask this:

Why does WoW now seem like the kind of game that if you didn't get in on the ground floor, you're not going anywhere? This isn't like in XI, where there are more indirect ways the older players hinder the new (inflation, expecting better gear earlier, etc) but blatant griefing by bored ex-Diablo II kiddies who dinged 60 and seem to have nothing better to do than grief anyone who steps off a transport.

I was set to give them a few months. Now I'm really thinking that's not the way. Anyone who plays WoW want to give a dissenting opinion? Is the game still fun, given the new system?
 
I play WoW when there's nothing to do on FFXI or EQ2. I actually have 6 characters on all different servers. NONE of those 6 characters are on a PVP only server. 5 are on a PVP and RPG server which the only way you can get attacked is if you set up your "flag" to where you are wanting to play PVP or if you assist killing/healing someone that is PVPing in which you are automatically "flagged" for PVP until 5 minutes of no PVP action. In other words, no one can hit you in those 5 minutes or it starts over nor can you hit or assist another PVPer.

My 6th character is on an all RPG server which doesn't have any PVPers. If you don't like the whole PVP thing, you can choose and all RPG server. Yes, you can choose your server when you start a character.

My friend keeps asking me to duel (I'm 5 levels lower than him and he's a Warrior and I'm a Priest). I keep turning him down and keep EXPing and questing.

Just join a RPG only server if you don't like to PVP or if you don't think the system is fair. If you join a RPG and PVP server, don't worry too much about the gear from this system. In all the parties I've been in, no one really cares about your gear. As long as you do your job, you're fine.
 
From the people who keep trying to get me to play.

"Yes Dante its still fun, you can actually play when you have a little while to play and you can actually do things on your own."

They also say if your not on a pvp server you can't get attacked by other players "so they say". It's after lvl 60 that the game just completely dies, but that will take about a month or more to get to.

I wanna go play that but I already have my online crack, I don't need another one.
 
The problem I saw with the PvE and RPG servers was that NPC were fair game. Is this a widespread problem, or is it overblown?
 
Atrbiohazard said:
I play WoW when there's nothing to do on FFXI or EQ2. I actually have 6 characters on all different servers. NONE of those 6 characters are on a PVP only server. 5 are on a PVP and RPG server which the only way you can get attacked is if you set up your "flag" to where you are wanting to play PVP or if you assist killing/healing someone that is PVPing in which you are automatically "flagged" for PVP until 5 minutes of no PVP action. In other words, no one can hit you in those 5 minutes or it starts over nor can you hit or assist another PVPer.
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I've been reading a bit more about RPG/PvE servers and... jeez. With the Alliance outnumbering the Horde 3:1 (and more) I see dozens of stories about huge teams of 60+ alliance members running through a Horde town, killing every single NPC and camping the repops - all to goad the Horde into flagging PvP and defending their town. This, to me, is absolutely insane.

Can you imagine if everyone 75+ from Sandy was able to just waltz into Bastok, kill all the quest/item/auction/etc NPCs, slaughter the AI guards, and taunt the Bastok people into flagging PvP so they could die too? Crazy. I can't imagine what that might be like, and I also can't imagine why anyone would want to join the Horde now knowing they'd be basically hopelessly overmatched from day 1.
 
I'm a 54 warrior and have done about 5 Tarren Mill raids since the Honor System patch has come out. Is it a problem in raids? Yes. All it did was turn raids into mass ganking of players thats are "easy" to kill, such as a warrior. For me to do any damage, I need to get close, and if I get too close to that cluster of Horde, I'm dead. The only reason that they implimented this stupid system is so that the high levels who have done all the instances and have all their gear can now just raid constantly to gain a rank and earn the new Honor System gear, so that they wouldn't leave for Guild Wars.

NPCs are NOT fair game to my knowledge. When ever I, or someone in my group kills a player I get notification that I got an honor kill of a <insert rank>. I've killed countless Tarren Mill guards and have never received an honor kill for them. BUT, honor kills are not what you want really, its contribution points. You get contribution points by doing damage and healing. And since in raids 90% of the population is in a cluster together so they wont get separated means that the only people who constantly gain points are ranged attackers that just wait for people to get too close (mages, hunters, warlocks, shaman, druids) and healers (druids, priests, shaman, paladin). Some rogues get lots of contribution points by staying behind enemy lines and picking off people who resurrect and or stray from the group. ---thats my little explaination of how to get points. But that system basically leaves most warriors useless, since if you get close to a horde character you are most likey going to get 1) stunlocked by a rogue 2) marked and slowed by a hunter 3) frost shocked 4) my favorite... have 10 Horde/alliance smack the shit out of you. The only thing I can really do is charge into their cluster and use AoE fear and let my group pick off the ones that are feared away from the opposite faction's cluster... but even that results in my death 99% of the time.

And one last thing to rant about (didn't mean to :x ) before I stop myself. I've heard from a lot of people that your rank (honor kills + contribution points) depends on the person with the highest rank on your faction. So if you have one of those angry, low self esteem kids IRL that have "uber" gear in game and just PvP nonstop because it makes them feel better, then you will never get a good rank. You could have 24782939 contribution points and 10383928 honor kills, but if someone has 3 times that then you could technically still be a Private (rank1).... which is stupid.
 
CubsWoo said:
I've been reading a bit more about RPG/PvE servers and... jeez. With the Alliance outnumbering the Horde 3:1 (and more) I see dozens of stories about huge teams of 60+ alliance members running through a Horde town, killing every single NPC and camping the repops - all to goad the Horde into flagging PvP and defending their town. This, to me, is absolutely insane.

Can you imagine if everyone 75+ from Sandy was able to just waltz into Bastok, kill all the quest/item/auction/etc NPCs, slaughter the AI guards, and taunt the Bastok people into flagging PvP so they could die too? Crazy. I can't imagine what that might be like, and I also can't imagine why anyone would want to join the Horde now knowing they'd be basically hopelessly overmatched from day 1.
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I'm on an RP server and killing NPCs is frowned upon by the majority of the population because it ruins other people's gameplay. Many times people have done "griefing" on my server and they brought it up on the server forums and the person was blacklisted/ignored by a lot of people. And unless a raid is ALL level 60s and they all listen to the leader and dont run off and screw around then a raid through a major city could be successful. But, most of the time when that happens on my server the raid party gets stopped early by opposing faction resistance + guards. When you attack NPCs they spawn guards... and when the guards get involved all hell breaks loose. Guards charge into the clusters of the enemy... so they are forced to focus on the guards, and while that happens the enemy takes advantage and attacks. Once your raid of 60 people is cut in half from deaths, the raid is practically over since upon resurrecting you will probably be killed again if someone sees you... even moreso with the Honor System in place now.
If you dont have all levels 60s in your raid, or at least all level 50+, then someone will get aggro from the guards. And in that chaos an NPC is bound to get involved, which will spawn even more guards... I've given up on raiding major cities.
 
Mithracat said:
1128 hours on GB, how long have you been playing that? O_o
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10ish months. ^^; I left FFXI for a few months so I could constantly play GB. We had quite a few 36-48 hour marathons two to three times a week. =P Do you play? o.O

Anyways, WoW NPC killing is just..stupid. And yes, the full alliance of 60's raiding a smaller area is stupid. I was a level 12 priest and in come 8-10 level 60's raiding a city that most of the population was 15 and below. ._.;
 
Killing of npc's happens regardless of what server you're on, I've got characters on several worlds. One time I was heading to and npc to finish a quest and a fucking monster killed him. The baiting tactic to provoke people into flagging for pvp also happens a lot. Hell, a bunch of alliance attack ogrimmar (main horde city) today and took out a bunch of people and npc's. Another downside of this honor system is that it actually causes lag for everyone on the continent (there are 2 in the world). So I can be 20 zones away from a massive pvp battle and still get lagged out from it.

WoW is fun, but I find it boring after 1-2 hours of playing. I'm in a guild of former XI players, but for the most part I play alone in the game. WoW pretty much forces you to solo everything, and only find parties for instances and some quests. If you even try to use a party for exp, even a party of 2 gives such crappy exp that it's definitely not worth it. If you like playing alone 99% of the time, WoW is great, but other than that XI is better.
 
Ok let me tell u something.I'm a 40 rogue... and i'm on Magtheridon server.We Made a huge ass raid alliance to attack iron forge but our asses got kicked around darkshire.Everyone left but me.Well lol it was funny cuz i used sneak and went right in the middle of the town .. killed a level 22 (U need ballz to do that) and then got away from all the high levels and hid in the bushes lol it was fun. :lol: .They kept looking for me for a few mins.
The honor system is just another addition that prevets ganking Not support it.Cuz now i avoid killing anyone lower than me and most of the time its almost impossible to kill an NPC unless u are very lucky and a rogue (With sneak and flee its easier to kill an npc).
It used to take weeks before someone on the gay alliance had enough ballz to attack orgirmmar but now their raids manage to get there once every 3 days and i think its mad fun.Also they added new HNM guards to main towns so the battles are even better and funner.I didn't really see anyone quitting in my guild or friend list.But its taking me long fucking time to come up with 100 gold for mount and i'm 40 already.
Wow doesn't force u to solo cuz instances can only be done in groups and thats where u get teh good shit.But yes u can solo all night if u want instead of seeking all night :lol:
U can party in instances and i get like pretty good exp cuz if u party on normal mobs u get lower exp cuz they are easy.
 
Here's another thing about the WoW forums. The majority of the people who post and whine there are just that... whiners and gripers. A lot of the issues that are whined about in excess on the boards are mostly people who lack any form of patience or skill. I'm just starting to get into the contested areas for questing (all my chars are on PVP servers) and I have yet to experience said griefing tactics. Another thing to note, there's 3 types of area on the PVP mode servers. Homeland territory, where you are not automatically flagged for PVP and thus will not be attackable unless you either attack an enemy alliance NPC or player, but members of the enemy faction will be auto flagged when they enter your territory. Basically this means your side gets the advantage... they can surround the enemy without being attacked, then all let loose and flag in a giant wave of initiative attack.

There's enemy territory which is the opposite, meaning if you go there you're a target, but you might not be able to target your enemy players if they aren't flagged for pvp.

Then there's contested territory, which is auto pvp enabled for everyone. Yeah people can camp corpses, gank, grief, kill npcs all they want, but honestly they won't get a whole lot of benefit out of it. The people who complain about corpse campers think they have to fight when they get up and don't understand their job's methods of escape. If you're being corpse camped there is -always- a way to escape it, unless there is a massive force of some 50 enemy players forming a ring around your body and covering every possible spawn point in an effort to drive you mad. Basically, if you dont want to be a prime target, dont travel in contested areas alone ;]

The NPC slaughter I still have yet to see in excess force. All in all, most of the fun seems to be in the endgame, both pvp encounters and dungeon raids (the equivalent of sky/gods/kirin etc) since they're all instanced you don't have to sit there camping for a bajillion hours, deal with mpks, or whatnot. The dungeons themselves are extremely fun, though easily run through with a player who is high enough level to solo the entire thing. If you want to get the most enjoyment out of the dungeons, you should go with people around your level (and you'll get significantly more xp from all the mobs you're killing). It also gives you a sense of how to play your job in groups, since a lot of time is also spent solo'ing. Although you don't have to solo, you can pretty easily, and grouping makes most of the quests insanely easy, but fun. Of course not all the quests are easy, I've run into a few that required a lot more strategy than "run in and blow shit up".

Now the community is definitely depressing sometimes... you really dont need to bond with people you group with... I think 100% of the times I've grouped to do chains of quests or instances it was basically just a "hi2u bye2u" occasion. We just did it, left, and that was it, very abrupt. Blind invites are commonplace, but it doesn't usually matter since everyone is benefitting from the situation, which is both a plus and a minus. I sort of miss the forced grouping because it enhanced the sense of community in FFXI, and running around by yourself for hours does get boring. Though like any other MMO, it probably picks up near the endgame.

Of course, if you're tired of sitting around and doing NOTHING for hours most nights, not making any progress, farming for months on end just to buy one piece of equipment, WoW definitely has FFXI beat in that. It's refreshing to log on now before work for an hour, just screw around and actually feel like I made some progress. I can run around doing quests and xp'ing up and not have to worry about making money since the drops farmed off mobs while I do all that usually adds up... oh and of course you get money a lot for doing quests. And honestly you don't need an excess of money for anything. The most expensive pieces of equipment are all endgame items found in the top level dungeons, and by that point theres no reason you wont have the money to buy them anyhow. Even if you don't, they aren't camped. You can usually get them in instance dungeons, as it's been said a bajillion times.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I actually found some of the changes made since the beta to make me interseted in playing it again. I have no problems with how the pvp system works. It's generally assumed that if you want to participate in that aspect of the system, you -do- have the choice of which server to play on. PVE servers are there for the players who don't want ot hardcore PVP but have the option available to them, and RP servers are there for the people who play for the story and want to roleplay a character instead of focus on l33t g34rz.
 
Lvl 60 Hunter (horde) on a PVP server and lvl 58 Druid(alliance) on a PVE server. I can safely say I've seen mostly everything in this game.

Cubs you have "I don't understand PVP game" written all over ya.

The honor system is in place and its crappy. I quit due to rampant nerfing of my favorite class but I'm kinda glad I did.

First lets [Dispel] the rumours about 'honor'.

Facts:
You get contribution points for assisting in a kill of an enemy player, just like exp points. Those points are hidden. You get an 'honorable kill' message when you or someone on your team makes a kill. Each player is worth x points and those points are split among your party so someone in a large group will recieve less 'honor exp' per kill than a solo player. Players who are [too weak] (12+ levels lower than you) give no honor. [Easy prey] give less honor than [even match] or [tough]. Just like exp! So you can kill greys, (TW) for no honor if you want, theres nothing stopping you. But theres no reason to do so except they happen to be in your way. Also 2 easy preys can quite easily take you down if they are smart or you mess up, they are by no means defenseless.

When you first get off the flightpath (think airship) theres a 30 second grace period where if you are killed you give no honor points. The opposing side can murder you but they get nothing.

YOU DO NOT LOSE EXP. You do not lose durability either. You lose nothing but time running back to get your corpse by being killed in pvp. Let me stress this: You lose nothing.

The massive lag and mobs of gankers being complained about are centered in a couple well known areas. These areas had a ton of PVP conflict before this system and anyone who plays wow is well aware of the clusterfuck they are and always have been much as any FFXI player knows about Valkurm and Yhotoar zoneline. One of them is basically Qufim. The thing is that the alliance and horde cities in Tarren Mill are almost visible from each other and easily accessable. Most pvp takes place there. What the whining players do not say is that that entire zone is 100% optional. You do not have to set one foot in TM to level to 60. If you want to do so while knowing this you enter at your own risk.

NPC's don't give honor at ALL last I checked. You can kill some of them, (many have no pvp flag and are completely immune.) but there is no point and no reward.

On a PVE/RP server the only time you join pvp is when you literally type /pvp. Until you do that you are invincible. Yes the NPC you wanted to talk to might be dead but he will respawn within 5 minutes. Guards in cities and outposts are infinitespawn and quite good at their jobs. *NOTE* on a pve/rp server attacking any flagged NPC will flag you for pvp and you are now fair game.

You choose your server when you create each character. If you do your homework you will find there are many servers with a fairly even or *gasp* horde-favored server if that is what you desire. If you make a character where you are one of 5 on your side thats your own stupidity XD

The reason the level 60s are hanging out killing each other in quifm stems from wow's current lack of strong endgame content. I'll explain that in a bit.

The lag is bad I'll give you that. Sigh... Its really.. really... realllllllly bad.

Battlegrounds are yes going to be enclosed group versus group balanced.

Why does WoW now seem like the kind of game that if you didn't get in on the ground floor, you're not going anywhere?
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This is not true at all. It will take you 2 months tops (I made it to 60 in under 3 weeks) to reach the endgame of wow. The only difficulty you might have is getting into a good endgame guild, because most of them are fairly full. (Word of advice: DO NOT PLAY HUNTER OR ROGUE.) But all the HNM's are in enclosed space, there is NO competition. Every time you want to fight one its right there, put a team together and go. The teams are 40 man strong and the fight is very difficult. Wow stresses who has the best team not who has the fastest ping. HOWEVER theres a catch. The 2 top dungeons are on a 5 and 7 day timer. So a cross between HNM and dynamis. This means that you can only kill the dragon once a week. What do you do in the meantime? You go kill each other in Tarren Mill because you are BORED. Thats what's wrong with the honor system XD

If you have any wow questions I'd be happy to answer em. It just kills me to see people condemn a game based on rumors that arent even true for the most part.

Oh, one last note. If you don't like the chinese gold-seller on a pvp server.... You can just walk up and kill him. ^_^d Seriously! We treat our gold-sellers differently than gill-sellers though on my horde server. We gave them a guild (1g1g1g) and teach them english and dance with them... its kinda fun. Its really amusing when you can recognize which person is taking a shift on the character just by how good or bad they are at PVP... Early morning Darge was really bad but afternoon Darge could kick some ass hahaha... Late night Darge just runs away though :( I think the other server's gold farmers are jealous of ours.
 
Please don't quote the "official" boards when trying to describe the state of WoW. :x
That place is ridiculously full of whiners and complainers, as Svina said.

Alot of the people complaining about it being impossible are speaking hypothetically, and haven't "actually" had any problems. Also with the honor system being new LOTS of people are testing it out and trying to figure out how good the rewards are.

When NPC's are killed, it causes guards to spawn, so when an alliance wipes out a whole town, and tries to camp the respawns, they often find themselves overwhelmed by NPC guards.

YOU DO NOT LOSE EXP. You do not lose durability either. You lose nothing but time running back to get your corpse by being killed in pvp. Let me stress this: You lose nothing.
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One small thing you do lose is playing time. If you are killed repeatedly within a small amount of time, there will be a timer you have to let count down before you can respawn.

I have one 30ish character on a PVP server, and one 30ish character on PVE. I've had a few minor gripes with high level PKers on the PVP, but just shrugged it off as the nature of the game. My PVE character is Horde, and does alot of stuff in a town called Crossroads. Crossroads gets raided multiple times per day, and never have I had a problem finding the NPCs I need for one quest or another. It's really been quite fun being level 30 and trying to defend my town from a gang of lvl 60s.
I mostly just try to heal my higher level Warriors without trying to draw too much attention. :twisted:
 
As others have said, you don't get any "honor" points from killing most NPCs (I'm fairly certain only the key NPCs in the major cities give points, and they're not only very strong, but also guarded by many NPCs that I think could easily kill a level 60 player if fought one-on-one). The first few days of the honor system were crazy, but after that, the only reason I couldn't get to a quest NPC was because it was lagging so bad that I couldn't go anywhere :lol:

Anyway, Blizzard really needs to upgrade their servers, as the lag is horrible when there's a large PvP raid. And they should probably have some way to make the opposite sides a bit more balanced. And they need more endgame content aside from PvP. Other than that, though, WoW isn't so bad.
 
PVp is awesome =) especially dual anywhere even on a ship!@@ i fell into the see once lol with teh guy i was dualing.
 
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