Worst Party Ever!

Andreva said:
One thing I have to say to the people complaining about PLDs bringing echo drops to the mire, it's just not feasable for a PLD to carry enough drops to cover thier own silena. In an average party lasting 3 hours, I can get silenced as many as 50-60 times. Sometimes even 2-3 times in the same fight. That would be 5 stacks of echo drops. To be honest, that's more inventory room then I could spare for something that's not even really needed. A good, or even decent, PLD should be able to hold hate even without magic for part of a fight. That, coupled with the fact that in that same party, my WHM/RDM/SMN/healertypeperson Only gets silenced on the rare occasion that amnesia decides it wants to last like 10 minutes, it doesnt really seem like too much of an issue to ask your healer to cover silena. Atleast, none of my healers have ever complained about it.
Click to expand...

It's for the emergencies. If a the mage DOES get silenced you will need to use them. Bitching about silena in those situations is just stupid. When you absolutely positively need silena at that moment just use the drops.
 
Khajit said:
It's for the emergencies. If a the mage DOES get silenced you will need to use them. Bitching about silena in those situations is just stupid. When you absolutely positively need silena at that moment just use the drops.
Click to expand...

I can agree with carrying a stack of them for emergancies, but it seems like people here want thier PLD to cover all thier own silena, which is equally as stupid. It's just not possible without pissing away hundreds of thousands of gil on something that you really shouldn't have to.

And I am of the mind that as a PLD, you should never bitch about getting silena. If your healer type misses one on you, or you're out of drops, or for whatever reason it just sticks around too long, just ask them nicely after you're finished with your current mob. Politeness always helps, as a happy and friendly WHM is much more likely to be on the ball for you then a WHM whom you have antagonized and who might be, shall we say, less inclined to give a damn about your sorry ass.
 
Khajit said:
It's for the emergencies. If a the mage DOES get silenced you will need to use them. Bitching about silena in those situations is just stupid. When you absolutely positively need silena at that moment just use the drops.
Click to expand...

QFT. If you have MP you should have echo drops. If you cast spells at all, you should have echo drops. Most WHM can keep up with a silena demand, but when they need to hit almost all of the party with it you better have echo drops to remove your silence if you need to immediately get a spell of to heal yourself or get shadows back up.
 
Andreva said:
One thing I have to say to the people complaining about PLDs bringing echo drops to the mire, it's just not feasable for a PLD to carry enough drops to cover thier own silena. In an average party lasting 3 hours, I can get silenced as many as 50-60 times. Sometimes even 2-3 times in the same fight. That would be 5 stacks of echo drops. To be honest, that's more inventory room then I could spare for something that's not even really needed. A good, or even decent, PLD should be able to hold hate even without magic for part of a fight. That, coupled with the fact that in that same party, my WHM/RDM/SMN/healertypeperson Only gets silenced on the rare occasion that amnesia decides it wants to last like 10 minutes, it doesnt really seem like too much of an issue to ask your healer to cover silena. Atleast, none of my healers have ever complained about it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even say you'd need that many echo drops. Silena should be used on a tank no matter what... if an emergency arises in which echo drops ARE necessary, then yes, a stack or two of echo drops are mighty handy.
 
I'm a NIN and I carry 5 stacks of Echos for a mire party. It's part of your job. On DRK I carry 2 stacks.

I have to sacrifice some pieces, but in XP some of the pieces I keep out aren't much.

It just isn't worth risking a dumbass WHM, if there is one even. And when roaming they may get silenced as well. That means they have to pop drops and then get you. I'd rather take the initiative and take care of things myself.
 
meeze said:
I'm a NIN and I carry 5 stacks of Echos for a mire party. It's part of your job. On DRK I carry 2 stacks.

I have to sacrifice some pieces, but in XP some of the pieces I keep out aren't much.

It just isn't worth risking a dumbass WHM, if there is one even. And when roaming they may get silenced as well. That means they have to pop drops and then get you. I'd rather take the initiative and take care of things myself.
Click to expand...
Ding.

I have 3 stacks on BRD, but i normaly dont need to use them unless the Mage gets silenced. Having X stacks ready doesn't mean you need to use them all the time. I go through maybe one stack in a good party.
 
I agree everyone that has mp and nin should have a stack of drops for emergencies, that being said, the only time the tank should ever have to use drops is if all mage types are silenced. Whether it be a pld or nin tank, that's the first thing you should be doing as a whm or /whm when you see, "The Heraldic Imp readies Deafning Tantra (SP)", is to toss the tank a Silena, the cast time on this spell is fast, recast time is fast, mp cost isn't that much, and in doing this, the tank can get shadows up, heal himself, flash the imp, all which help save you mp in the long run, keep rest time to a minimum which = more exp. You can silena 5 ppl in no time at all. I don't see any reason why any job needs to carry more then 1 or 2 stacks of drops. What's next, do all mp jobs need to carry Yag. drinks in case of a bad rdm or brd? Between the whm or /whm jobs in the party, the responsibility lies on them to keep the party sileena'd.
 
erm, this is why when I party in the mire, I don't ask for silena, i'll wait for it to wear off

it's not really a necessity for me to have shadows anyways

<-- leet puller :3
 
Dreucent said:
I agree everyone that has mp and nin should have a stack of drops for emergencies, that being said, the only time the tank should ever have to use drops is if all mage types are silenced. Whether it be a pld or nin tank, that's the first thing you should be doing as a whm or /whm when you see, "The Heraldic Imp readies Deafning Tantra (SP)", is to toss the tank a Silena, the cast time on this spell is fast, recast time is fast, mp cost isn't that much, and in doing this, the tank can get shadows up, heal himself, flash the imp, all which help save you mp in the long run, keep rest time to a minimum which = more exp. You can silena 5 ppl in no time at all. I don't see any reason why any job needs to carry more then 1 or 2 stacks of drops. What's next, do all mp jobs need to carry Yag. drinks in case of a bad rdm or brd? Between the whm or /whm jobs in the party, the responsibility lies on them to keep the party sileena'd.
Click to expand...

If people act like its just the whm responsibility to silena all it does is slow down xp. You can silena 5 people per deafening tantra, but that'd cost you about 100 mp. If you're roaming or not playing with a refresh job in your party, throwing 100 mp down the drain per deafening tantra is a pretty big waste considering you could get a a couple of hastes out of that mp instead.
 
Dreucent said:
I agree everyone that has mp and nin should have a stack of drops for emergencies, that being said, the only time the tank should ever have to use drops is if all mage types are silenced. Whether it be a pld or nin tank, that's the first thing you should be doing as a whm or /whm when you see, "The Heraldic Imp readies Deafning Tantra (SP)", is to toss the tank a Silena, the cast time on this spell is fast, recast time is fast, mp cost isn't that much, and in doing this, the tank can get shadows up, heal himself, flash the imp, all which help save you mp in the long run, keep rest time to a minimum which = more exp. You can silena 5 ppl in no time at all. I don't see any reason why any job needs to carry more then 1 or 2 stacks of drops. What's next, do all mp jobs need to carry Yag. drinks in case of a bad rdm or brd? Between the whm or /whm jobs in the party, the responsibility lies on them to keep the party sileena'd.
Click to expand...

The only problem with this logic is that it's assuming a party setup with a single tank. The problem the OP is talking about is multiple casting jobs within a party: blu, pld, thf/nin. Many merit parties these days are cannon style and you're talking about all 6 people in the party who need the ability to cast. As Rhaddy mentioned, it is a huge mp sink over time, especially the way the imps at times spam deafening tantra. Having played whm in the mire in parties where almost no one has brought drops, I can vouch for how much mp it eats and how it can slow a party down. Not to mention, divine veil can only be used once every so often, even if you've got it merited. So silena x5 over and over takes time too. Hence the convenience (and wisdom) of having your own drops.

And as for your statement about juices? I leanred to make juices early on in my mage jobs just for that reason. When I party as mage, I about always have a few spare juices on me or mats to make some in a pinch. Being prepared can spare yourself and your party a LOT of grief. I have a rdm who lis inconsistent w/ refresh or a bard who's pulling and trying to keep up w/ 2x ballad at the same time, I pop a juice to fill in the spaces and the party benefits in the long run.
 
Hmmm i hate it when people use Echo Drops when i'm meritting or exping, it gives me the feeling that "Hey that mage sucks, he will never silena us so just stick to drops.!" Maybe it's just me, but i tend to tell the people that really need Silenas not to pop their drops unless its emergency ie. Couple links, low on mp and need to keep links slept etc.

However, when i level my Blu i tend to carry 4 stack of drops when lvling in Mire..... And normally used all in one exp session -_-! , most mages will not Silena BLU or even worse not Silena the tank.. (And yea i hate to beg for Silena everytime the imps use their move.)

I prioritize Silena on tank, mages, puller and any job with /nin that tends to get hate all the time, MNK/NIN? :p. I never complain about my Silena jobs, maybe it's just me... And no, i'm never really desperate for mp in mire even with casting Silena, one of my party manage to get #160+ chain once.

The point is, always carry 1-2 stack of drops in case of emergency. I always carry a stack of echo drops, oil and powder 100% of the time. I guess if you take pride in your job and have gil, that isn't too hard to do.... >.<

You will encounter bad parties from time to time, it's like waking up on the wrong side of the bed. Probably better just go on and seek for another party, the most just avoid partying with people that you think will end up with bad party.

There's couple times when i'm in a party that looks like it's not gonna work at all (really bad party type), after some communication between the members and understanding (important!), most of this parties ended up to be pretty good. But again, that's just my experience :P
 
Last edited:
Rhaddy said:
If people act like its just the whm responsibility to silena all it does is slow down xp. You can silena 5 people per deafening tantra, but that'd cost you about 100 mp. If you're roaming or not playing with a refresh job in your party, throwing 100 mp down the drain per deafening tantra is a pretty big waste considering you could get a a couple of hastes out of that mp instead.
Click to expand...

Zyndara said:
The only problem with this logic is that it's assuming a party setup with a single tank. The problem the OP is talking about is multiple casting jobs within a party: blu, pld, thf/nin. Many merit parties these days are cannon style and you're talking about all 6 people in the party who need the ability to cast. As Rhaddy mentioned, it is a huge mp sink over time, especially the way the imps at times spam deafening tantra. Having played whm in the mire in parties where almost no one has brought drops, I can vouch for how much mp it eats and how it can slow a party down. Not to mention, divine veil can only be used once every so often, even if you've got it merited. So silena x5 over and over takes time too. Hence the convenience (and wisdom) of having your own drops.

And as for your statement about juices? I leanred to make juices early on in my mage jobs just for that reason. When I party as mage, I about always have a few spare juices on me or mats to make some in a pinch. Being prepared can spare yourself and your party a LOT of grief. I have a rdm who lis inconsistent w/ refresh or a bard who's pulling and trying to keep up w/ 2x ballad at the same time, I pop a juice to fill in the spaces and the party benefits in the long run.
Click to expand...

Well I guess I'm just to damn good then at WHM. I never had a problem with it. If you don't have refresh, I seriously doubt you're going to be throwing out hastes all over the place, As for 100 mp per silena round, never said you have to silena everyone every single time, I mean does the THF really need silena in the middle of the fight? or anyone else save maybe the BLU besides the tank, Oh wait, maybe the SAM does so he can Meditate. I don't think so. You wait til the end of the fight to Silena those jobs that don't need it right away so that you're not wasting MP. The problem with this logic is it promotes laziness in mages which is already a problem. If you want a demonstration sometime, hit me up in game and I'll come WHM for you. As for the juices... sure, early on at lower lvl's where Bard doens't have Ballad and RDM doesn't have refresh yet I can see having to bring juices, but again, just seems like a waste of money to bring them otherwise. If they can't refresh you find someone that can, if you're going 10 secs w/o refresh cause your refresher got caught up in something so you pop a drink, learn some patience. I'm sure the 15 mp you gained in that 10 secs will make all the difference in how your party goes. If you don't have a refresher in the party then I can understand having to buy/make juices.
 
Dreucent said:
Well I guess I'm just to damn good then at WHM. I never had a problem with it. If you don't have refresh, I seriously doubt you're going to be throwing out hastes all over the place, As for 100 mp per silena round, never said you have to silena everyone every single time, I mean does the THF really need silena in the middle of the fight? or anyone else save maybe the BLU besides the tank, Oh wait, maybe the SAM does so he can Meditate. I don't think so. You wait til the end of the fight to Silena those jobs that don't need it right away so that you're not wasting MP. The problem with this logic is it promotes laziness in mages which is already a problem. If you want a demonstration sometime, hit me up in game and I'll come WHM for you. As for the juices... sure, early on at lower lvl's where Bard doens't have Ballad and RDM doesn't have refresh yet I can see having to bring juices, but again, just seems like a waste of money to bring them otherwise. If they can't refresh you find someone that can, if you're going 10 secs w/o refresh cause your refresher got caught up in something so you pop a drink, learn some patience. I'm sure the 15 mp you gained in that 10 secs will make all the difference in how your party goes. If you don't have a refresher in the party then I can understand having to buy/make juices.
Click to expand...

Wow someone's got a very large ego. I don't need coaching tips on white mage thanks. I said having to repeatedly mass-cast silena leeches MP and takes time. It doesn't matter when in the course of the battle you do it, you still have to do it if that party member hasn't brought drops. I didn't say it couldn't be done, and I didn't say I don't do it. So you can take that self-righteous chip off your shoulder.

I wouldn't party in the mire without refresh. And I don't know what kind of weird setups you've maged for there, but even with a refresher that place is tough on mp. Imps cast agas, sleepga, poisonga, not to mention that jnuns argo low hp, flies have crappy AoE even with barspells... there is a lot of mp being spent in that place for a variety of reasons.

Bottom line is, I have a 75 melee and 2 75 mage jobs. I've played this on both sides. There's a reason you can buy echo drops. To say having to carry them/and or being prepared makes a mage a bad/lazy mage is some really screwed up logic. It's as moronic as saying no one should ever buy sneak oils or prism powders because hey the mage can do it. No one's questioning can/should the mage silena. What we're saying is, be responsible and come prepared so in a pinch, you can take care of the situation yourself and not depend on the mp or the time it takes the mage to do it for you. But that's the difference between being a good player and a mediocre one.
 
Last edited:
Zyndara said:
Wow someone's got a very large ego. I don't need coaching tips on white mage thanks. I said having to repeatedly mass-cast silena leeches MP and takes time. It doesn't matter when in the course of the battle you do it, you still have to do it if that party member hasn't brought drops. I didn't say it couldn't be done, and I didn't say I don't do it. So you can take that self-righteous chip off your shoulder.

I wouldn't party in the mire without refresh. And I don't know what kind of weird setups you've maged for there, but even with a refresher that place is tough on mp. Imps cast agas, sleepga, poisonga, not to mention that jnuns argo low hp, flies have crappy AoE even with barspells... there is a lot of mp being spent in that place for a variety of reasons.

Bottom line is, I have a 75 melee and 2 75 mage jobs. I've played this on both sides. There's a reason you can buy echo drops. To say having to carry them/and or being prepared makes a mage a bad/lazy mage is some really screwed up logic. It's as moronic as saying no one should ever buy sneak oils or prism powders because hey the mage can do it. No one's questioning can/should the mage silena. What we're saying is, be responsible and come prepared so in a pinch, you can take care of the situation yourself and not depend on the mp or the time it takes the mage to do it for you. But that's the difference between being a good player and a mediocre one.
Click to expand...

Dreucent said:
I agree everyone that has mp and nin should have a stack of drops for emergencies, that being said, the only time the tank should ever have to use drops is if all mage types are silenced. Whether it be a pld or nin tank, that's the first thing you should be doing as a whm or /whm when you see, "The Heraldic Imp readies Deafning Tantra (SP)", is to toss the tank a Silena, the cast time on this spell is fast, recast time is fast, mp cost isn't that much, and in doing this, the tank can get shadows up, heal himself, flash the imp, all which help save you mp in the long run, keep rest time to a minimum which = more exp. You can silena 5 ppl in no time at all. I don't see any reason why any job needs to carry more then 1 or 2 stacks of drops. What's next, do all mp jobs need to carry Yag. drinks in case of a bad rdm or brd? Between the whm or /whm jobs in the party, the responsibility lies on them to keep the party sileena'd.
Click to expand...

Guess you missed my first post and my original point. And I've been on all sides as well, I've taken WHM, SAM and NIN through the mire... so I know it can be done or I wouldn't say so otherwise. Sorry if I sound heated, and this is not an attack on you, but I've seen some really lousy maging so I felt compelled to speak up here because I don't agree with what's being said.
 
Dreucent said:
Guess you missed my first post and my original point. And I've been on all sides as well, I've taken WHM, SAM and NIN through the mire... so I know it can be done or I wouldn't say so otherwise. Sorry if I sound heated, and this is not an attack on you, but I've seen some really lousy maging so I felt compelled to speak up here because I don't agree with what's being said.
Click to expand...

I do agree with you to that point. I have seen my share of rotten, depressing mages. Forgive me for sounding defensive, as since I'm one of the good ones, and don't want to be shuffled into their company.

To clarify my point, yes, bar none, the tank is the main priority and without question has precedence over anyone else in the party regarding status ailments. To leave the tank silenced is lazy and incompetent. I had good practice on hair trigger silenas in Labryth of Onzozo on Torama's with a PLD tank though and I'm not sure too many people party there anymore.

Anyhow, sorry if I misunderstood/jumped to conclusions. Horray for kickass mages. Carry on... :biggrin:
 
White Mages (maybe other mages too?) need to go through Labyrinth of Onzozo and Kuftal Tunnel's Tigers to claim themself to be full pledge mage :p. Those two are -na spell heaven (hell?) for mages >.<.
 
Kirlua said:
White Mages (maybe other mages too?) need to go through Labyrinth of Onzozo and Kuftal Tunnel's Tigers to claim themself to be full pledge mage :p. Those two are -na spell heaven (hell?) for mages >.<.
Click to expand...

Amen. lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top