Would Voke break PLD?

Eulore said:
didn't really read much but pld/nin would suck pre-74 because you'd just get interupted (sup no evasion) and pld/war would hold the most hate in the game, also without /war you lose defender which is awesome in exp.

Edit: also lol@pld dual-wielding. Without a shield more than half of our damage negation is gone and we're going to get hit with /nin. We just don't have the evasion to be able to effectively blink tank (without double march, haste, and haste gear)
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I already know what I'd use on my pld/nin with voke.

Yeah before you down it, imagine a pld with full homan, swift belt, turban, flame rings, fully merited sword and parry. Then throw in joyeuse main, justice sword sub.
 
Give pld ridill =D PLD is only job with a single hand weapon with A+ rateing
 
Kire, if you aren't going to help the discussion then stop posting here.

As I was reading I kept thinking about PLD/BLU? Wouldn't the huge defense boost from Caccoon as well as some minor (but nifty) future job traits be useful? Especially stacking another refresh on PLDs Auto-Refresh, and then stack that with Refresh from a RDM/BRD/COR?

It seems like a good idea in writing!
 
Auto refresh does not stack try pld/smn only gets 1mp not 2mp
 
SE wouldn't do it.

A paladin with blink is an unstoppable tank. If it had its own voke the nins could sub /pld and be even greater tanks than they are, at least at lower levels.

Cool idea that everyone wanted since the game came out, this idea is getting tired and if SE hasn't done anything about it yet, why would they?
 
Firestreak said:
Nin would obviously be a better subjob. Utsusemi doesn't cost mp, Ni is instant cast and they could dual wield swords which would generate more TP while causing great damage and allow them to convert that TP > MP.
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/war > /nin for TP gain and overall damage. Double Attack gives more TP than Dual Wield after you factor in the lost TP per hit. Toss on getting hit for TP, and /nin has nothing on /war for TP build.

Eulore said:
I can keep hate on par as pld/nin (only flash, provoke would make me overpowered) with 2 nin/wars on a wyrm, so saying nin/war > pld/nin is a moot point from an HNM stand-point.
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Can you touch a nin/drk for hate though? Nin/drk can generate nearly as much hate as pld/war, and still has shadows. Take away voke and it's no longer a contest.

Why does nobody argue /mnk? More HP, Guard, Counter, Focus, Boost, Chakra...
 
I thought about /monk, but I figured it'd be about the same as pld/war is now, still taking really big hits and needing big cures so it'd still be unappealing compared to blink tanks. Guard only works with hand to hand weapons, which pld doesn't use; although counter and chakra would be cool, not to mention dodge might help slightly.
 
Stouter said:
/war > /nin for TP gain and overall damage. Double Attack gives more TP than Dual Wield after you factor in the lost TP per hit. Toss on getting hit for TP, and /nin has nothing on /war for TP build.
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meh kinda but dual weild is 100% Double attack doesnt happen all the time like dual wield isnt the tp only lowerd by 1 or .5? oh w/e u get my point, if double attack had higher proc. rate i could understand... and DW2 -15% delay too so a little bit faster swing
 
Stouter said:
/war > /nin for TP gain and overall damage. Double Attack gives more TP than Dual Wield after you factor in the lost TP per hit. Toss on getting hit for TP, and /nin has nothing on /war for TP build.
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Not always, when you're dual wielding 2 double attack sword you'd gain TP insanely quick and do a lot of DPS, but with shield mastery it would be close either way.

Stouter said:
Can you touch a nin/drk for hate though? Nin/drk can generate nearly as much hate as pld/war, and still has shadows. Take away voke and it's no longer a contest.
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I've never gone up against a nin/drk except for on a sky god as pld/war and held more hate than them, but that's a different story.

Stouter said:
Why does nobody argue /mnk? More HP, Guard, Counter, Focus, Boost, Chakra...
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/mnk would be pretty good, but defender, cocoon, or shadows from /war, /blu, or /nin respectively would probably beat out /mnk though.
 
Eulore said:
/mnk would be pretty good, but defender, cocoon, or shadows from /war, /blu, or /nin respectively would probably beat out /mnk though.
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I can't see the 30-ish(I think it's around that much) extra defense from defender as being that big of a deal for endgame. Sure it's nice to have but I wouldn't think it would have that much of an impact; while a around 10% chance of countering, the free cure 3-4 from chakra and the extra HP from /mnk sounds like it would have a bigger impact.
 
Bajaratt said:
I can't see the 30-ish(I think it's around that much) extra defense from defender as being that big of a deal for endgame. Sure it's nice to have but I wouldn't think it would have that much of an impact; while a around 10% chance of countering, the free cure 3-4 from chakra and the extra HP from /mnk sounds like it would have a bigger impact.
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defender is like 150 extra defense >.> and you'd essentially get 2 vokes and 1 flash with /war and would hold insane hate allowing everyone to do as much dmg as possible.

And for end-game if pld had voke I'd go /nin.
 
I never had a defense boost that big from defender, does it increase defense as a percentage of your current defense? If it does, then that would explain why you're seeing a useful defense boost while I'm seeing crap.
 
I think most of you are forgeting one important possibility:

If PLD had all these hate gaining abilities, do you think that DRK and BLM wouldnt have to hold back as much?
 
Trippyhippy said:
Blm only holds back with a pld tank to keep from running out of MP. It has nothing to do with hate issues.
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I dont want to argue with a high level BLM, but most of the times its an issue when a BLM over nukes. It IS a hate issue. BLM overnukes, BLM gets hate, PLD tries to recover hate, BLM dies.
 
Bajaratt said:
I never had a defense boost that big from defender, does it increase defense as a percentage of your current defense? If it does, then that would explain why you're seeing a useful defense boost while I'm seeing crap.
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Just tested it, got 120 defense so I was close. I think it is 25% (had 480 defense, went up to 600) but it only lowered by attack by 90ish.

Rufus_Shinra said:
I think most of you are forgeting one important possibility:

If PLD had all these hate gaining abilities, do you think that DRK and BLM wouldnt have to hold back as much?
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Since when to DRK's hold back? They just SATA and all the hate is on a tank. SAM does more damage anyways (meditate is god)

BLM maybe, I don't really pay attention but I do see a lot of nukes very often and me or the other tanks rarely if ever lose hate to a blm, or anyone for that matter really.
 
a good pld can take 2 DDs doing a 1k WS X2 and 1k SC and a 1.4k MB w/o the mob looking away from you for 1 sec
 
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