yes counter works when subbed celvantes, but doesnt give TP
Would Voke break PLD?
- Thread starter Rufus_Shinra
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I have a question, and it's not meant to be an anti sword/shield argument.
Well, Shield mastery is 25, which makes it subable If shield supposedely gives more tp than a second weapon, by that logic wouldn't a WAR/PLD with a axe/shield out-tp a war/nin?
If so, couldn't you say then war should sub paladin and sub shield, or if you agree dual axe is more damage than wouldn't dual swords be the same to a paladin?
I guess it kind of is an argument, or I don't know. I suppose the argument of pld/war for max damage confused me a bit.
Well, Shield mastery is 25, which makes it subable If shield supposedely gives more tp than a second weapon, by that logic wouldn't a WAR/PLD with a axe/shield out-tp a war/nin?
If so, couldn't you say then war should sub paladin and sub shield, or if you agree dual axe is more damage than wouldn't dual swords be the same to a paladin?
I guess it kind of is an argument, or I don't know. I suppose the argument of pld/war for max damage confused me a bit.
Firestreak said:
war/pld would have to tank, and they would take a lot of damage because of no shadows and having bers/agg up. Also war's shield skill is a lot lower than pld's (I think war has C in shield) so it wouldn't proc as much as pld.
As for the pld/war > pld/nin for DD, you're forgetting about berserk, which increases damage by a lot along with the double attack for TP.
Celvantes said:
/nin would still be better for HNM. Not taking as many hits (you're still going to get hit, so you can still cure) is going to severely outweigh anything /mnk can give you. Sure you'd be a hate machine if you added boost, but you should be a hate machine even without boost as pld/war. Boost and focus aren't going to do shit on HNM. HP isn't everything on HNM. You also need vit/enmity. Not taking nearly as much damage and therefore not losing nearly as much hate would be much better than being hit for slightly less.
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Agree that shield skill a lot lower on war, only thing is average paladin's shield is less than war cap anyway(230).
As for berserk, if you're tanking you're probably not going to want to use it except for WS... unless you have shadows lol.
As for berserk, if you're tanking you're probably not going to want to use it except for WS... unless you have shadows lol.
Firestreak said:
With capped shield you block a lot and have higher base vit and defense than war so you don't take very much extra damage from having berserk up. Trust me I've done it before. I wouldn't do it on IT's like mamools or aura statues though.
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Eulore said:
Question. Does a PLD with Berserk on still take less damage than a WAR without berserk?
Rufus_Shinra said:
Probably. Shield negates a lot of damage over no shield. Not to mention the defense and vit bonus.
Edit: This is talking about 75 as I wouldn't know before then, I only used defender 50-75 lol
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Does defender give you any hate? Make you lose hate? Neither?
I find that sentinel gives alot of hate (everyone knows though) but Defender....well...doesnt.
I find that sentinel gives alot of hate (everyone knows though) but Defender....well...doesnt.
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Bajaratt said:
I'm curious as to why you would believe this.
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Kire said:
Not only that, auto-refresh doesnt come til much later then 37 for BLU.
Defender is a 3minute buff while sentinel is only 30 seconds. If it were to add enmity on the level of sentinel, it would be broken.Rufus_Shinra said:
sup e-peenjamal said:
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Rufus_Shinra said:
I will argue with a high lvl BLM, since I am one myself, lol. If you cant steal hate from a PLD by overnuking, then your are severely gimped in dmg.
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He asked why a WAR or a NIN would be more fit to tank in endgame then PLD/NIN with vokeLegomyeggo said:
Its not e-peen, its common sense. Minus the VERY high-end HNM, WAR or NIN would be a more suitable Blink tank. Why?
NIN or WAR do dmg, pld does not...
As far as I know, when War or Nin tank most endgame related mobs, they're either not engaged with the mob, or are using a weapon for the survivability stats(I.E. Macuahitl+1/Koenig Shield or Earth Staff).
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Like Fafnir, Behemoth, KA, Roc...all melee tanked better then a PLD, because dmg keeps hate.Legomyeggo said:
Only time War or NIN wouldn't is for, like I mentioned, the very huge battles...ie, tiamat, jorm, vrtra, etc.
If you didn't know then why did you comment e-peen...
Baby HNM. Yeah, tanks are optional unless you go undermanned and because the fights last all of ten minutes, so I really dont see where this is going. And Faf, well, I couldn't say anything from personal experience because my shell uses Paladin and the fights go smooth, but that's how we roll.jamal said:
Hi, I'm the resident troll/threadshitter. Nice to meet you.jamal said:
I think a pertinant thing to consider is that yes Paladin won't keep shadows up like Ninja would obviously, but then when their shadows are down... they're still a paladin and would just be taking damage like they were taking damage before they sub'd Nin. Even though we can't dodge we still use AA on paladins when they're tanking big stuff.
Imagine a really skilled Paladin and SMN( or /SMN) working together to bounce Utsusemi and AA for total coverage.
Imagine a really skilled Paladin and SMN( or /SMN) working together to bounce Utsusemi and AA for total coverage.
