XboX 3 !

[Strid]

Yeah, they started releasing them about 2 and a half years ago

What a way to begin, eh?

 

[Skaw]

Pretty positive the third console from Microsoft is atleast in conceptual stages of development, since it's been 2 years.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'd be surprised if they didn't start on planning for the new console almost right after the release of the 360.

 

[Strid]

Aye, they've already let it be known it's bein' worked on. I can't remember exactly how far the article on it said but they're well past the middle stages best I can remember.

 

[RaidrX]

I wonder how long they will continue to support the 360 after the next one comes out, or if they will drop it again right away like the xbox.

 

[Strid]

I wonder how long they will continue to support the 360 after the next one comes out, or if they will drop it again right away like the xbox.

I wouldn't put any worry into the matter. It'll be at least another 3-4 years before we probably even see an advertisement for the new console in the first place. If it comes sooner than that, I'd be greatly shocked. Considering it's already been close to 3 years since the 360 launched, that's about right on time.

Directly concernin' the matter with droppin' 360 support after the new console's release; I'd say they'll probably drop the 360 rather quickly. Given how they treated the final dates of the Xbox and their Windows' products releases, we'll probably see a rushed out product as quickly as it's able to turn on properly. The PS2 is the only console I know of that's truly surpassed an expiration date and I don't see the 360 bein' the second. None-the-less, I'm sure we'll be able to enjoy all the titles we've come to love and many more over Live for quite some time.

 

[Tagrineth]

The main reason the Xbox got canned so incredibly quickly when the 360 was released was because it was losing a lot of money for Microsoft. IIRC even at the end each Xbox sold was losing Microsoft nearly $200.

 

[Bajaratt]

That and the 360 was an instant success in sales. There was no reason to continue the Xbox when the 360 was outselling it while supply constrained. Same thing with the Wii, but not the PS3.

 

[Negorissimo]

Remember the 360 had "backward compatibility" from the go... Well, at least it played some games.

ps - the next Xbox will surely use Blu-Ray.

 

[Alyada]

Why are we arguing about a console that doesn't exist yet?

And why is Anttaru talking about consoles that will be released AFTER his end of the world?

 

[Anttaru]

Yes Strid there is latency and i could have saved myself some trouble from just saying so.

Yeah. The 30MB Dashboard in RAM is what's running while you're in a game. It loads the full Dashboard when you access it, which is why it has to shut down the game when you access the full Dashboard.

It has dedicated and shared memory. The GDDR3 is dedicated to the GPU, which is the slower between the 2, and the GDDR3 is what developers use to make Multi platform titles. The GDDR3 was put there for multi platform titles in mind.

Anyway, tl;dr version: XDR is still RAMBUS technology and is still higher latency than any SDRAM on the market, it's just designed to fix the ungodly horrid latency problems that plagued previous RAMBUS tech.

All other RAM is plagued by latency as well not just RD. XDR "is" the fastest RAM in the world at this point in time.

My point was that the PS3 simply has LESS memory to work with when running games, and of course you made another rather comedic comment...

What's comedic is comparing DDR to XDR and thinking 256MB Vs. 512MB for DDR means the is supreme memory is the slower DDR.

It's still 256MB. Maybe with something like an operating system you can "cheat" and create a swap file on the system's hard drive, which would let you pretend you have several gigs of memory...

Virtual memory ? There is none involved.

you could even write the swap file to abuse the RAMBUS memory's extremely high bandwidth by juggling chunks of the swap file in and out of physical memory to optimize performance more than a regular swap file would achieve, and it'd probably be doable because if you're shifting large enouch chunks you could optimize it for RAMBUS's exceptional performance with contiguous data.

Don't call it RAMBUS, RAMBUS is the company name, call it XDR, cause you can be talking about any other type of RAM.

Blah blah blah anyway in a game your 256MB is just that, 256MB. If the game needs more data than what's available you could cheat but most of the things you could do to cheat on a PS3 you could do on a 360 too (though I guess it'd most likely require the end user to own the HDD so PS3 has a small leg up here with having one built in), but the performance of the game would take a hit so for the most part with these systems trying to cheat your memory is a bad idea because it could hurt the game's frame rate or responsiveness.

Let's start from the beginning, except I'll be the first to compare memory between PS3 and X360.

Xbox360 - 512MB GDDR3 RAM @700Mhz (Over all bandwidth 22GB)

PS3 - 256MB XDR RAM @3.2 GHz (Over all bandwidth 50GB)

The PS3 has more than double the memory than Xbox360.

...HARDWARE! \m/

All hardware.

 

[Tagrineth]

All other RAM is plagued by latency as well not just RD. XDR "is" the fastest RAM in the world at this point in time.

No, 1T-SRAM is the lowest latency memory. Memory bandwidth and memory latency work together to improve different aspects of memory performance. Low latency memory with low bandwidth and high latency memory with high bandwidth are useful for two different things though - for example low/low would be better for video games that require a lot of random access, while high/high is better for streaming huge amounts of contiguous data.

Don't call it RAMBUS, RAMBUS is the company name, call it XDR, cause you can be talking about any other type of RAM.

RAMBUS is the name of the company that makes it and all of their memory - ARDRAM, BRDRAM, CRDRAM, DRDRAM, and XDR RDRAM - use similar design and concepts for their function. I'm using the word RAMBUS to refer to the technology, not specifically XDR memory.

Let's start from the beginning, except I'll be the first to compare memory between PS3 and X360.

Xbox360 - 512MB GDDR3 RAM @700Mhz (Over all bandwidth 22GB)

PS3 - 256MB XDR RAM @3.2 GHz (Over all bandwidth 50GB)

The PS3 has more than double the memory than Xbox360.

No it doesn't.

Faster memory does not mean more memory.

Show me a white paper outlining how you can store 512MB of data in PS3's 256MB of memory and you'll have a case. As of right now what you're claiming is IMPOSSIBLE.

Unless you use a swap file

OH WAIT

Virtual memory ? There is none involved.

right

What's comedic is comparing DDR to XDR and thinking 256MB Vs. 512MB for DDR means the is supreme memory is the slower DDR.

I'm not saying one is SUPREME. You are. I'm going into depth about the technology involved and the pros and cons of the different technologies including what latency affects and what bandwidth is good for.

Generally speaking though, for GAMES, the 360's larger unified memory pool with faster random access will be better. On average.

Optimization can be made to improve high latency performance, and the high bandwidth allows for larger textures (as long as they fit in memory) and higher resolution streaming video (as long as you have enough buffer space).


tl;dr: you're full of shit because you can't possibly fit 512MB of data in 256MB of memory. QED.

 

[Bajaratt]

Virtual memory ? There is none involved.

Isn't that basically what the PS3 is doing when it installs a few gigs onto your hard drive so you can play the game with slightly faster loading times? Yeah, it's not actually virtual memory, but it's doing the same thing in the same way.

 

[Anttaru]

No, 1T-SRAM is the lowest latency memory. Memory bandwidth and memory latency work together to improve different aspects of memory performance. Low latency memory with low bandwidth and high latency memory with high bandwidth are useful for two different things though - for example low/low would be better for video games that require a lot of random access, while high/high is better for streaming huge amounts of contiguous data.

1T-S is a memory solution used in smaller applications like Cell phones. The Wii has it too. It's not bad. At lower speed it does in fact have lower latency. In the applications it runs, It's required to handle less making it idealistic for what it is.

RAMBUS is the name of the company that makes it and all of their memory - ARDRAM, BRDRAM, CRDRAM, DRDRAM, and XDR RDRAM - use similar design and concepts for their function. I'm using the word RAMBUS to refer to the technology, not specifically XDR memory.

My Ninja is similar to my buddies bike too, except his has an after market exhaust with a full jetting kit. Granted he gets more performance out of it. Both bikes are built off of the assembly line. The point in this matter. Talk about the XDR RAM and the technology that makes it as it is, and not the company.

]No it doesn't.

Faster memory does not mean more memory.

Show me a white paper outlining how you can store 512MB of data in PS3's 256MB of memory and you'll have a case. As of right now what you're claiming is IMPOSSIBLE.

Your thinking of terms of Static RAM. Like DDR, XDR is Dynamic and non static, faster has a lot to do with it.

Unless you use a swap file

OH WAIT

Oh wait, that would be ROM more of less

I'm not saying one is SUPREME. You are. I'm going into depth about the technology involved and the pros and cons of the different technologies including what latency affects and what bandwidth is good for.

Actually i requested this thread be about the third XboX, and what one might expect from it and not PS3.

In Dynamic RAM speed Bandwidth rules, you should know that.

Generally speaking though, for GAMES, the 360's larger unified memory pool with faster random access will be better. On average.

That's true. But it doesn't have fast Random access in comparison. XDR is also non embedded. If X360's DDR was faster, you'll experience more latency.

Optimization can be made to improve high latency performance, and the high bandwidth allows for larger textures (as long as they fit in memory) and higher resolution streaming video (as long as you have enough buffer space).

XDR does this off the hardware. I reckon adjusting it for optimal performance would indeed enhance the scalability or memory as some have already done in Linux. RAM clock encoding via BIOS.

tl;dr: you're full of shit because you can't possibly fit 512MB of data in 256MB of memory. QED.

Again Your thinking static RAM that holds data (Not good for gaming), so your full of shit. Dynamic RAM is an active passage between the RAM chip and the Processor. Although memory storage is optional it's not very interactive.

Your assuming the load does stay in the RAM at all times, then what ? It duplicates itself to pass through the rest of the system to generate a real time environment then transforms it's state from within the static nature of the random memory ? You need to consider the processor and the GPU feed.

The X360 has 512MB of RAM, what you get out of it depends on how the developers uses it. in terms of memory it's cable of 22Gbs bandwidth between the processors and the RAM due to the given speed. This is good for running multiple applications, but it's not a the best expression of raw horsepower.

 

[Anttaru]

Isn't that basically what the PS3 is doing when it installs a few gigs onto your hard drive so you can play the game with slightly faster loading times? Yeah, it's not actually virtual memory, but it's doing the same thing in the same way.

The RAM doesn't govern how fast the mechanics in the ROM drive can "search" and load data from a high capacity disc. Also these things all come down to how the developers made the game. Again with Ninja Gaiden (because it's good for comparison) actually does have faster load times on XBoX1 (Granted sometimes Ninja Gaiden black has it's days where it takes long to load stages) Being a fan on both, i still enjoy playing Ninja Gaiden black for it's slight differences in detail.

EDIT: Ninja Gaiden Black also saves faster. It's instant compared to Sigma. Reason for this is they modified it to track you better so you can't reset it when doing karma runs. They want to see who is the best in the world without the need to reset and try again. Off topic last i looked i was Rank 76 on the planet Hard mode.

 

[Strid]

Yes Strid there is latency and i could have saved myself some trouble from just saying so.

You should always do that, no matter what you're doin'. As it is, it looks like you lied, for no good reason. If you believe with all your might that the PS3 is the holy grail of the generation it shouldn't need your help to be so. Why on earth it matters to you so much though is far from my knowing or care. However, it seems to me this thread began by an inferiority complex.

Less talk about machine gidgets and more talk about what really decides the matters, games.

 

[Anttaru]

You should always do that, no matter what you're doin'. As it is, it looks like you lied, for no good reason.

I don't like lies. At times i see through secrets Strid, and keep my motuth shut. I'm open to suggestions. Case in point the 2 systems in XDR i wrote about, reduce latency to such great magnitudes it's part of it's breakthrough scalability.

If you believe with all your might that the PS3 is the holy grail of the generation it shouldn't need your help to be so. Why on earth it matters to you so much though is far from my knowing or care. However, it seems to me this thread began by an inferiority complex.

This thread is not about PS3. However I respond to anyone who throws it at me, and i straight up say, PS3 is more advanced in most ways.

This thread never began due to any form of complex. I made it to share and collect thoughts on the next console we'd expect to be released. Some turned out not to like that.

I mentioned XboX3 will tackle the PS3 in terms of power. Namely processing power and GPU. I mention this will happen before the PS4 and even mentioned XboX3 might even cripple PS4 permanently. And yet I'm labeled a fan boy from the OP.

Truth be told every next generation must be more powerful than the last, or there is no point in even making a new console. Some don't agree with that logic. Why buy a new machine when the old has the processing power of the new one ? It just wouldn't work.

Less talk about machine gidgets and more talk about what really decides the matters, games.

This is Hardware talk, not for everyone, but open to them. What decides the generation, is the new console that meets what is required for it. When you see a new system, you'll check it out. Some will like to see what's under the hood, and others won't.

We can only imagine the third XboX's ways. Nothing wrong with talking about what we'd expect, then later see how the thing actually turns out.

 

[Makelith]

This thread is not about PS3. However I respond to anyone who throws it at me, and i straight up say, PS3 is more advanced in most ways.

I refer you to the "jibberish" point in my last point about losing credibility with people.

I mentioned XboX3 will tackle the PS3 in terms of power. Namely processing power and GPU. I mention this will happen before the PS4 and even mentioned XboX3 might even cripple PS4 permanently. And yet I'm labeled a fan boy from the OP.

Because, plain and simple, you were being one. You preach about how this is all "common sense" and none of it is yet except for one thing that you constantly bring up that no one has ever questioned. You come to the xbox section of the forums and preach how the PS4 will be better, when we don't know the order they will be released. Also, i didn't label you a fan boy in the OP, it was one of my later posts that i actually called you one. Right around the time you started calling me child, and avoiding my post completely while saying the most nonsensical things to make yourself seem smarter (more smart? Whatev).

Truth be told every next generation must be more powerful than the last, or there is no point in even making a new console. Some don't agree with that logic. Why buy a new machine when the old has the processing power of the new one ? It just wouldn't work.

This is the one that no one has disagreed on, but you have brought up in almost every post that i have read. Yeah, it would be silly. So why do you say that the PS3 will be "rivaled" by the X3? The X3 will blow the PS3 out of the water, and that shouldn't even be a question, same goes for PS4, and if Nintendo ever decides to go in to the high def market (which would be silly, since they basically invented their own market and are dominating it) it will be the same for them.

We can only imagine the third XboX's ways. Nothing wrong with talking about what we'd expect, then later see how the thing actually turns out.

Exactly. I imagine the Xbox3 will utterly destroy the PS4 and whatever nintendo comes out, because plain and simple the Xbox is better. With advances in RAM, GPU, GDP, CPI, and CPU, it is obvious that the xbox will come out on top. (See? I can do it too.)

You are doing pretty much what i hate most out of anything in the world. You say crazy things, and when someone calls you on it you say things like, "Its just speculation, so i can say whatever i want!" Or something like, "Its not for everyone to talk about this, so they shouldn't".

It annoys me to all hell when Fox News does shit like this, and you aren't being any different.

 

[Anttaru]

I refer you to the "jibberish" point in my last point about losing credibility with people.

You've questioned my reason, and now refer me to you're last post ?

Because, plain and simple, you were being one. You preach about how this is all "common sense" and none of it is yet except for one thing that you constantly bring up that no one has ever questioned. You come to the xbox section of the forums and preach how the PS4 will be better, when we don't know the order they will be released.

We know the PS4 is scheduled for 2016. X360 will not go 13 years. There will be a 3rd XboX before the PS4 comes about. I also mentioned the 4th XboX will be better than the PS4. But forget that ... I said PS4 will be better than XboX3 right ?

Also, i didn't label you a fan boy in the OP, it was one of my later posts that i actually called you one. Right around the time you started calling me child, and avoiding my post completely while saying the most nonsensical things to make yourself seem smarter (more smart? Whatev).

And here i thought we've set aside our differences since then when i said sorry to have upset you. I never said you labeled me in the OP cause you never wrote the OP in the first place. You did mention in an early post in response to the OP that it was written in a fan boyish manner. If you later called me a Fan boy after we shared our reasons, i never noticed. I'm kinda surprised to see you've turned to this. I never avoided you're first post either. I just mentioned i don't like being taken for a Fan boy when making such gestures.

This is the one that no one has disagreed on, but you have brought up in almost every post that i have read. Yeah, it would be silly. So why do you say that the PS3 will be "rivaled" by the X3? The X3 will blow the PS3 out of the water, and that shouldn't even be a question, same goes for PS4, and if Nintendo ever decides to go in to the high def market (which would be silly, since they basically invented their own market and are dominating it) it will be the same for them.

As i mentioned, the PS3 will be more established around that time. More people will own them, more games will be on it, and the PS3 will be cheaper. In terms of power, the X3 will indeed be more advanced than the PS3. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll automatically be a best seller. It's no different when PS3 first came to the market. Games became more time consuming to make, and a whole list of disasters. X3 may bring about new challenges in game development. PS4 will be released after X3, feel free to debate it all you like. I also said release dates for consoles are very offset between Sony and Microsoft.

Exactly. I imagine the Xbox3 will utterly destroy the PS4 and whatever nintendo comes out, because plain and simple the Xbox is better. With advances in RAM, GPU, GDP, CPI, and CPU, it is obvious that the xbox will come out on top. (See? I can do it too.)

You can do it all you want. I was right though you are a child. It's not even worth it for me to mention the X3 will be older than the PS4. But i now see what I'm dealing with.

You are doing pretty much what i hate most out of anything in the world. You say crazy things, and when someone calls you on it you say things like, "Its just speculation, so i can say whatever i want!" Or something like, "Its not for everyone to talk about this, so they shouldn't".

1. Cause it is speculation dummy. What ? Do i have an Xbox 720 ? Has anyone even seen one ? No. For Xbox360 to go on for 13 years is way too far beyond it's life expectancy.

2. Don't put words in my mouth when i say "This is Hardware talk, not for everyone, but open to them."

There are people who really don't give a damn about this type of stuff Makelith. They just want their games. There for, it's really not everyones cup of tea. Not once did i mention as you say "Its not for everyone to talk about this, so they shouldn't". That's what you say.

It annoys me to all hell when Fox News does shit like this, and you aren't being any different.

You should look carefully and see your exactly like Fox news.

- You try to provoke me.
- You say i said this and that, when it's clearly written in the thread what i really said.

What is this cower i detect in you ? Why are you so compelled to start fight me, while in most of you're first post you agree with me ? Do you feel responsible for all this disrespect I'm receiving from the others, from the time you said what i wrote is fan boyish, then it was followed up by the others ?

Most of the others I'm clashing with here, especially Tagrineth, we rough house all the time, and you seriously make me want to commemorate them for at least not acting like a baby and forcing shit in my mouth like you do.(Except Tagrineth, if this was like the Highlander, he would have been dead by my hand long ago)

I don't feel i owe you an apology, especially after this shit you wrote. You can't talk to me.

 

[Malagra]

Isn't this kind of a replay of that Nibiru or whatever asteroid that's supposed to kill us in 2012 or whatever thread?