You don't have to cheat to be sucessfull at end game!!!

Artem said:
People who downplay Dalmatica for bard and redmage, never used it, and never will have a chance of using it. Sure maybe in your EXP sessions, Dalmatica won't be useful, but in HNMs it's one of the most useful pieces for bard and rdm. Sorry but it only takes a few seconds to infeeble, and at most 30 seconds to get off two songs (if you are slow). For the next two minutes, you are doing other things and recoverying mp is great. Use the head slot for -enmity, so right there it's better than vermillion. Maybe it's not a billion times better, but it is marginally better. Better is still better.

Well the first statement assumes a lot. I downplay BLM AF2 head as well, and AF2 body - which are both overrated as hell. I have both. Recognition of stats that aren't functionally useful as people make them out to be doesn't require ownership of said item.

As far as the edge that dalmatica can allow for a head slot, this is true, but there's nothing of value the head can assist with. You're not going to be casting more in the dalm than you can, for example in a royal cloak. It's a question of how long you're going between songs and casts. I'll admit I don't know enough about RDM in endgame alone to totally rule it out in all cases. The business of the job and it's functionality to only be useful with not casting, coupled with alternatives like royales that can give you 30 mp, which won't fill up anyway from your refresh til the next real cast...

I'm just saying, it's not that big a fucking deal. Most of the time, it makes no difference at all. So I laugh at people who use it to compare relative linkshell gear success, as if it's comparable to a blackbelt, a M or E body or even the mildly useful herald gaiters. More useful mage gear a HNM shell can get... like W body for rdm, manteel for brd, a hands for blm. Maybe dalmatica is great if you intend to afk for 2 minutes and when you get back want an extra cure 3 to dish out... but it's not a E body, period.
 
Mephosis said:
Regardless of how many macros you think you have, end-game is largely about such minimal gains. 1MP per tick returns enough over time to warrant that one macro press for when you aren't casting. This, combined with the MP makes Dalmatica one of the best body pieces for both RDM and BRD.

lrn2play imo?
Sooo all that time where I stand around with my thumb up my ass should be spent wearing a Dalmatica. Gotcha. Except since whenever I'm on rdm I'm always doing something. Someones got to be hasted or cured or something. Some mob is coming along that needs to be silenced or dispelled or whatever. I'm quite sure I have a habit of trying to do every little thing possible on rdm, so that doesn't leave much time for standing around watching my MP bar go up by one extra number.

People are making some nice points and I can agree with some of them. Dalmatica still ranks around igqira feet for me in terms of priority though.
 
Firestreak said:
Well the first statement assumes a lot. I downplay BLM AF2 head as well, and AF2 body - which are both overrated as hell. I have both. Recognition of stats that aren't functionally useful as people make them out to be doesn't require ownership of said item.

As far as the edge that dalmatica can allow for a head slot, this is true, but there's nothing of value the head can assist with. You're not going to be casting more in the dalm than you can, for example in a royal cloak. It's a question of how long you're going between songs and casts. I'll admit I don't know enough about RDM in endgame alone to totally rule it out in all cases. The business of the job and it's functionality to only be useful with not casting, coupled with alternatives like royales that can give you 30 mp, which won't fill up anyway from your refresh til the next real cast...

I'm just saying, it's not that big a fucking deal. Most of the time, it makes no difference at all. So I laugh at people who use it to compare relative linkshell gear success, as if it's comparable to a blackbelt, a M or E body or even the mildly useful herald gaiters. More useful mage gear a HNM shell can get... like W body for rdm, manteel for brd, a hands for blm. Maybe dalmatica is great if you intend to afk for 2 minutes and when you get back want an extra cure 3 to dish out... but it's not a E body, period.

Do you not read?

Assuming Red Mage, equip Dalmatica on body slot, Duelist's Chapeau on head slot. That's 2 'Refresh' effects. The benefits they provide are certainly greater than Vermillion. Were I standing around, why would I go for 1 Refresh effect when I can have 2? It's not necessary to unequip both during spells such as Refresh, Haste, etc. and while enfeebling the Chapeau stays on. The only terribly important situation I can see at the moment in a HNM situation where you would unequip both is while casting Stun (assuming AF1 head and AF2 body) in order to lower cast time.

As you can see, a lot of the time at least one of the two, if not both will be equipped.

And sorry, if it's "not that big a fucking deal" then perhaps you should try end-game without any refresh effects. After all it's only a few MP right? By all means continue to play with this mindset, but you are hardly one to decide whether or not it equates to linkshell success, so don't bash it till you've actually tried it.
 
Calais said:
Sooo all that time where I stand around with my thumb up my ass should be spent wearing a Dalmatica. Gotcha. Except since whenever I'm on rdm I'm always doing something. Someones got to be hasted or cured or something. Some mob is coming along that needs to be silenced or dispelled or whatever. I'm quite sure I have a habit of trying to do every little thing possible on rdm, so that doesn't leave much time for standing around watching my MP bar go up by one extra number.

People are making some nice points and I can agree with some of them. Dalmatica still ranks around igqira feet for me in terms of priority though.
Well it's a good thing you can't equip Dalmatica while casting then, amirite?

Seriously, it's a very routine job and there is always extra time where you can have a Dalmatica on. Hell you can even have it on during casts! There's no particular reason why you can't be casting Haste/Refresh/Cure while wearing a Dalmatica, and even if you were to switch (perhaps to AF2 for Fast Cast?), there is still a period when they're on cooldown and you can wear the Dalmatica. Likewise for enfeebles, which tend to be rather fast casting spells. If you want to be really anal about it, you can switch in Dalmatica while resting; before and after the MPhealing tick kicks in for additional Refresh (but who does this, really.)

Did I really need to state that? I tend to assume people are able to think for themselves but I am often mistaken.
 
Back on topic, posting here, since I guess its the most appropriate of all the flames against us.

The successfulness of a LS does not lie on how great its "supposed bot" is. Imo, this LS has been successful way before our very first Tiamat or Fafnir kill. I am sure the other "end-game" LSes(Rise, CK, BoL, Kaizen etc) are successful in their own way.

Back in February, when me and Bjornar decided to take over leadership of ESP back when it disbanded in order to keep the group of friends we have made together, we built the LS for the purpose of enjoying the end-game, that many deemed to be hell, on principles that we believe in strongly, both in-game and out: respect, trust/faith, community, and enjoying the game as what it is, a game.

If you seriously base your successfulness on the amount of Adaberks, Dalmaticas, Ridills (which will all return to nought when SE decides to press that OFF button on the servers forever) you have got, then I advise you to rethink your priorities ingame. At the end of the day, you will be left with nought while we still have our fond memories taking up fun, challenging fights alongside friend with whom we have forged a strong relationship with.

Take away the items the we have got from "supposedly botted" HNMs, we will be still as successful. Who knows, I may leave the game without ever being able to try out Adaberk, Ridill and what-have-yous, but I most definately will leave the game satisfied.

Perseverance has evolved into a close-knit LS with members that enjoy the game as it is, as well as the company of fellow LS mates to the fullest. Look amongst our ranks for your so-called loot whoring, LS jumping "end-game scumbags" and I assure you that there is none (sure there is an alledged botter, but more on that later.)

To the wonderful LS members, who have stuck with us thru ups and downs, who are always there when help is needed, who show up for stuff just for the fun of it, and who has placed extreme faith in a far-from-perfect leader, lets look forward to another fun-filled and exciting year.


On Boticles(a name you guys ever so fondly call Chronicles) and how naive the LS is in believing that he does not bot, put yourselves in my shoe or any of the LS mates'. One one hand, I can choose to take the guilty-unless-proven-otherwise stance and choose to believe "I-heard-she-say-he-saw" or even worse, to believe someone who has been kicked from the LS due to 0 credibility and other incidents which we have, time and again, given chances for him to improve. On the other hand, I have someone who has played alongside us, showing up to events despite 0 benefits as well as countless hours sitting on the sidelines, helping out randomly whenever he can afford to. If I were to choose to believe the first blindly, then I truly am the naive one, and have failed miserably as both a leader and as a friend.

Of course, this is not just blind faith in a friend. There is never smoke without fire. After all this "loldrama" first surfaced, I have talked to a few people, as well as paid close attention to the logs when we claim.


What saddens me most is the people, whom I percieved respectable, taking part in immature /says as well as jumping to conclusion that ALL our claims are done by 1 single person.

If we were trully depending on these wonderful claim bots, why then, do we make the effort to return from AFK 10mins before windows to clear darters and make it so much easier for others to claim over us?

Claiming in the DA is almost as random as it gets. You, veterans of camping Faf/Nid, should know better than us. What do you want to achieve by turning the public eye on us, when our claim rate is as similiar to the next LS beside us?

I urge all of you who insist that we bot our claims, to consolidate concrete facts (screenshots of unfiltered logs before claim), instead of making false accusations. If we want to go on an all-out bot-hunt, lets do it with solid facts. I am proposing that we make a list of who claims in the DA over a good long period of time and see what this data can prove. My LS is willing to kick start this initiative, and how appropriate it is to start with a screenshot of our last Faf where Chronicles did in fact landed the first provoke on our battle log.


img_0039.png

30 Nov, Faf, Pereverance claim (Chronicles' first to land provoke)


Of course, people choose to see what they want to see etc. In the end, this post will prolly fall to deaf ears. The screenshot I posted will prolly be used against us as the final nail to prove that Chronicles bot.

All in all, I find the accusations unfair to our honest hardworking members. What I am offering, is a way of consolidating as solid a fact as we can (thru screenshots of logs), since us claiming that our claim rate has been pretty well spread out throughout our members falls to deaf ears, and people prefer to listen to "I-heard-he-say-she-saw" Chron claimed another Nid for us.
 
Mephosis said:
Do you not read?

Assuming Red Mage, equip Dalmatica on body slot, Duelist's Chapeau on head slot. That's 2 'Refresh' effects. The benefits they provide are certainly greater than Vermillion. Were I standing around, why would I go for 1 Refresh effect when I can have 2? It's not necessary to unequip both during spells such as Refresh, Haste, etc. and while enfeebling the Chapeau stays on. The only terribly important situation I can see at the moment in a HNM situation where you would unequip both is while casting Stun (assuming AF1 head and AF2 body) in order to lower cast time.

As you can see, a lot of the time at least one of the two, if not both will be equipped.

And sorry, if it's "not that big a fucking deal" then perhaps you should try end-game without any refresh effects. After all it's only a few MP right? By all means continue to play with this mindset, but you are hardly one to decide whether or not it equates to linkshell success, so don't bash it till you've actually tried it.

Alright you're right on the AF2 head, I forgot about that completely. Like I said, not a RDM. So Dalmatica + AF2 head is a good standing combo.

Just think 1) It's being overused, which is worse than not having it at all.
2) Still not great for bard.
 
Firestreak said:
Alright you're right on the AF2 head, I forgot about that completely. Like I said, not a RDM. So Dalmatica + AF2 head is a good standing combo.

Just think 1) It's being overused, which is worse than not having it at all.
2) Still not great for bard.

If it's useful for RDM in that you are able to equip a head piece, I'm sure you can come up with something for BRD; you're the one with all the experience, after all.

Uh, it's overused? If a player chooses to be lazy and not use the item to his/her best that is their problem but it plays no part in determining how good an item is. If I remember correctly you would tank in Vermillion almost exclusively on PLD while leveling, I guess that makes Vermillion overused too. Worse than not having it at all even.

What kind of brainless comment is that, seriously.
 
Mephosis said:
Assuming Red Mage, equip Dalmatica on body slot, Duelist's Chapeau on head slot. That's 2 'Refresh' effects.
Cause only complete fucking gimp rdms don't have Duelist's Chapeau. Ohwait, it's prolly less common than dalmaticas. But yes, if you have both then sure, use them both. But if you don't have the Chapeau (and that's like 95% of rdms), then there's no discernible reason to really HAVE to have dalmatica. You can argue various reasons that it might be okay, but in the long run it's a huge luxury piece that won't make you better than rdm #2 next to you that doesn't have it.
 
Dalmatica's magic def bonus and more MP is nice when it comes to HNMs
 
Mephosis said:
If it's useful for RDM in that you are able to equip a head piece, I'm sure you can come up with something for BRD; you're the one with all the experience, after all.

Uh, it's overused? If a player chooses to be lazy and not use the item to his/her best that is their problem but it plays no part in determining how good an item is. If I remember correctly you would tank in Vermillion almost exclusively on PLD while leveling, I guess that makes Vermillion overused too. Worse than not having it at all even.

What kind of retarded comment is that, seriously.

What bard head is useful for standing around? There aren't many bard heads useful for doing anything. A few chr or 6 singing skill. AF2 head is both... but not useful.standing around.

As far as the comment about paladin.. I'd swap in vermy between fights. When I just got spirit taker, my next party I tried out using vermy and terra staff (which i was being hit the same as I was in my AF), thinking the Mp might be worth the loss in damage because I was fighting a monster my sword was having little effect on. I decided I didn't like it and switched back.

Certainly don't know what you mean by saying I tanked "exclusively" in verm as paladin. Maybe while skilling up.... maybe as a test once or twice... not exclusively from 60-75... lol. If anyone who leveled with me back then is still around I believe they can confirm that.
 
Dalmatica is just a "look at me" piece of gear. Quite a few more bodies a RDM can wear that are better. If I had one I would probably just wear it for the MP bonus after resting then equip a better piece. Same goes for WHM and BLM, shouldn't be wearing this piece after the MP bonus is gone.
 
Elemmire said:
Dalmatica's magic def bonus and more MP is nice when it comes to HNMs

Curious now... you get 10 more MND off stoneskin with errant... stoneskin bonus big deal vs magic defense bonus?

And I think you leveled with my Paladin a few times, set the record straight about me tanking in verm please lol...
 
Rappa said:
Cause only complete fucking gimp rdms don't have Duelist's Chapeau. Ohwait, it's prolly less common than dalmaticas. But yes, if you have both then sure, use them both. But if you don't have the Chapeau (and that's like 95% of rdms), then there's no discernible reason to really HAVE to have dalmatica. You can argue various reasons that it might be okay, but in the long run it's a huge luxury piece that won't make you better than rdm #2 next to you that doesn't have it.

Hi.
The items are obtainable, it is not my problem if you do not have them. If you really can't take it, replace AF2 hat with something else you can equip. Gosh?
And if anything, the long run is where such items really do make a difference, where the marginal differences between different equipment choices actually show.

Whether or not you have them is not an issue. Intelligence and even ability to do very routine things seem to be very uncommon in players, I guess we should take that into account with regards to end-game too.
 
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On Boticles(a name you guys ever so fondly call Chronicles) and how naive the LS is in believing that he does not bot, put yourselves in my shoe or any of the LS mates'. One one hand, I can choose to take the guilty-unless-proven-otherwise stance and choose to believe "I-heard-she-say-he-saw" or even worse, to believe someone who has been kicked from the LS due to 0 credibility and other incidents which we have, time and again, given chances for him to improve. On the other hand, I have someone who has played alongside us, showing up to events despite 0 benefits as well as countless hours sitting on the sidelines, helping out randomly whenever he can afford to. If I were to choose to believe the first blindly, then I truly am the naive one, and have failed miserably as both a leader and as a friend.

Chronicles evidence = Tagrineth evidence.

In fact, the Chronicles chat log posted is far more damning than mine.

And yet you still say it's naive to think he bots?

Get a fucking clue.


Edit: And saying dalmatica isn't that great because it and duelist's chapeau are so rare is like saying e.body is crap because Ridill is so rare (or vice-versa).
 
Firestreak said:
Curious now... you get 10 more MND off stoneskin with errant... stoneskin bonus big deal vs magic defense bonus?
Well to be fair, you could just macro on errant for SS (I macro a lot on my whm when I cast SS) then have an upgraded SS AND magic defense bonus too. But again, this isn't going to make or break you.
 
Mephosis said:
Crap that's irrelevant
Oh, you edited it before I could quote the "Go home" part. But anyway, who are you again? I've never even heard of you, much less care about your opinion. I know countless rdms and I know how the job works, so I know what I'm talking about. You obviously don't, despite having RDM as your "main" or whatever. If you honestly think dalmatica is going to make one rdm better than another, you're a moron. So you can "go home", or at least go back to Crawlers' Nest and learn how to play your job.
 
True but also need to look at the -50 HP on the dalmatica. Trying to guage here how useful the magic defense actually is to compare to the drawbacks.

This kind of reminds me of the whole BLM AF2 body argument I used to have with people. Weskit is so much better for nuking, so people say - "Well use it to walk around in." To which i say... "I can walk around in a black cloak."

Now that I actually have af2 body, I swap it in when I cast blink... gives me a whole 5 or so MPs here and there til I cast a nuke...not at all better than black cloak, just free... and my black cloak was a whole 200k.
 
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Firestreak said:
Curious now... you get 10 more MND off stoneskin with errant... stoneskin bonus big deal vs magic defense bonus?

And I think you leveled with my Paladin a few times, set the record straight about me tanking in verm please lol...

I never actually had my own vermy really.. lol.. I was too poor. I borrowed a friend's now and then but I didn't like losing my head piece all that much. Refresh was nice. I can't remember what else vermy had stat-wise >< I can't remember what exactly it's supposed to be either with stoneskin.. it's been awhile since I cared but I think straight magic def bonus will offer it more than the MND but I can't remember if MND+10 > Magic Def bonus 5% but hmm bah.. it has its uses. The magic def bonus% also I mean will help against spell damage as well as increasing the stoneskin's strength, and from what I've seen game-wise, my larger mind supply wasn't exactly decreasing magic damage on me all that much. *Shrugs* I really should relearn these things >.>
 
Tagrineth said:
Chronicles evidence = Tagrineth evidence.

In fact, the Chronicles chat log posted is far more damning than mine.

And yet you still say it's naive to think he bots?

Get a fucking clue.


This is really true, if you accept what Chasym posted as proof of Tag using exploits, than you better sure as hell accept the chatlog of Boticles

Not like there isn't an massed amount of proof against Boticles anyway, lol50% of HQ King claims for a shell? You gotta be shittin' me.
 
Rappa said:
Oh, you edited it before I could quote the "Go home" part. But anyway, who are you again? I've never even heard of you, much less care about your opinion. I know countless rdms and I know how the job works, so I know what I'm talking about. You obviously don't, despite having RDM as your "main" or whatever. If you honestly think dalmatica is going to make one rdm better than another, you're a moron. So you can "go home", or at least go back to Crawlers' Nest and learn how to play your job.

despite having quit the game for over a year, mephosis is still one of the best rdm's i've ever seen play this game. i find it funny a few people saying on this thread that rdm has so much stuff to do, they're too busy, exasperated, blah blah blah... well, he was just one of those players who made the game look easy. no matter what situation or however bad things were or whatever emergency we were in, he always knew what to do and did it perfectly. rarely am i ever impressed with players, and he did it routinely.

it's understandable that you feel you have a greater knowledge of the job because your friends have explained things to you. that doesn't make it necessarily so in all cases, and in this case i'm gonna go ahead and say that neither you nor your friends know more about the job than meph did.

i'd outright say that when he quit, our ls lost one of it's best rdm's and players that we'd ever seen. normally when someone in my ls quits, we're sad they do but in the end, it's ok. we have many skilled players to fill in the gaps. meph was irreplaceable.

whether you consider my opinion valid or not on determining a player's skills or abilities is up to you. i'm just posting this in an attempt to give some kind of background on someone whom you and i'm sure others, are now questioning.
 
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