You don't have to cheat to be sucessfull at end game!!!
- Thread starter Kinkkerbelle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- cheat end game sucessfull
Anaeran said:
Eh, a moral viewpoint, I can respect that, even though it's hard for me to share it... I like to have fun, camping for hours on end at kings and never getting a claim is no fun... No one (well, no one I know) likes to camp, yet almost everyone likes to kill. People enjoy executing detailed strategies to take down the strongest monsters in the game... The only way to kill a lot of these monsters is to camp against people that hack... Some people enjoy having the best gear and using that to merit/cannon, and the only way to get a lot of the best gear is to camp against people that hack... It's unfortunate, but it's a fact. Some people struggle with patience on this game, as I'm sure you've noticed being around a long time, and it takes patience to stick it out in a clean shell vs a shell w/ hackers. All I'm saying is that I can empathize with those people who -are- clean that are in a linkshell that has people hacking, even if I wouldn't choose to do so.
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
- Messages
- 831
- Age
- 41
- Location
- In the Woods
- Website
- www.bowguild.org
- Main Job
- Secondary Job
- Third Job
- Linkshell
- CelestialKnights
Shyrra said:
Completely agree. I feel bad for the people who's names are being thrown out there as probable hackers simply for associating with a LS containing known cheaters. This is why it needs to stop somehow... like now. Before all these good players throw in the towel and jump into WoW.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,587
ahh Enix needs to fix how things work.Like where hacking won't change anything for example.... but oooo there is WoW lol.
Magtheridon Horde! go go go
Magtheridon Horde! go go go
Anaeran said:
Glad we're on the same page, lol. I'm already playing WoW though, haha, ran outta gas for FFXI.
A lot of these posts seem to suggest that if you have a lot of abjurations in ls, you must have cheated your way there...
Maybe I'm misreading this, but it's quite possible to have a lot of abjuration and be clean (as ls). As rappa said there are always going to be one or two people in ANY ls who have cheated at one point or another. The best we can hope for is that those people get removed when solid evidence is present (btw chasym saying you he saw your IP once and knows you cheated is not solid evidence, that's one person talking out of their ass).
Maybe I'm misreading this, but it's quite possible to have a lot of abjuration and be clean (as ls). As rappa said there are always going to be one or two people in ANY ls who have cheated at one point or another. The best we can hope for is that those people get removed when solid evidence is present (btw chasym saying you he saw your IP once and knows you cheated is not solid evidence, that's one person talking out of their ass).
I find camping fun because I'm around friends personally >.>, and I really don't put much effort into it besides 5 minutes max unless we claim.
And the way you worded stuff before made it sound like you don't think we have the skill to kill the big monsters, but we do.
And the way you worded stuff before made it sound like you don't think we have the skill to kill the big monsters, but we do.
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
- Messages
- 831
- Age
- 41
- Location
- In the Woods
- Website
- www.bowguild.org
- Main Job
- Secondary Job
- Third Job
- Linkshell
- CelestialKnights
Artem said:
Exactly, this is what I'm saying here. I know there are a lot of legit players. Kaizen is a good example of a majority of legit players who have worked hard, earned the big time loots and proven themselves with a fair game. I played with a lot of those guys, nothing but respect there. I'm not saying nobody has earned what they have. I'm simply saying there's a growing number of people who haven't, and those are the people we need to worry about now.
Not to downplay people's ability - but since everyone got 200 merits off of easy expansion exp, and 5% haste hats, yigit gear and other things came out... the same stuff isn't as hard to kill as it used to be when only a couple LS could do it. Game progresses, stuff gets easier, more people can do it. It's a natural progression.
Eulore said:
Nah, you guys can kill them, killing HNMs isn't where the hacks come into play most often. Most likely they just make it easier on a LS killing HNMs, or make it more efficient, not a matter of "Omg, we need flee tools to beat this mob," it's claiming where hacks give people the biggest advantage. Need to claim to kill.^^
Firestreak said:
im struggling to say it but.........
.
..
i agree
*cougH* ok i said it. nah just playin
but i do agree-- and, i dont really see why this thread was made. a few bad apples do ruin it for a bunch, but dont think that the entire endgame is that way because its not. maybe im just optimistic though.
Anaeran said:
Yeah, the number of people hacking is growing. I think it's because of all the retards like chasym who promote hacking, and people who go around saying that our server is behind because we don't hack. It doesn't take hacking to get ahead.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
- Messages
- 7,980
- Nation Banner
- Main Job
- Secondary Job
- Third Job
- Server
- Quetzalcoatl
- Linkshell
- TheSlayers
- FFXI
- Khidir
- FFXIV
- Screwthatlol
Thanks for making this thread Kink, I've just seen a lot of measly shit pulled off at lower tiers I thought it didnt make headway into the higher ranks
Artem said:
It's everyone's personal responsibility if they decide to hack or not. You can blame the suppliers like Chasym or people like me who don't give a shit either way. But in the end it's their decision only and nobody else's.
As to why hacking is increasing? Hate to sound like a broken record but I've been saying this for a while. Game gets older, people hack more. Slowly more and more hacks get tolerated by larger percentage. As Kaizen you have the ability to cherry pick your members so you can get the most skilled who follow your codes, but other linkshells have to settle with the rest of the population minus the people you've taken out to populate their linkshell.
It's easy to say to join a shell with a good reputation, but reputations change. If theoretically it was discovered some of your shellmates cheated and your leader didn't want to kick them, if you wanted to leave or not isn't a simple right or wrong question to most people. To some who feel deeply against cheats, sure, they'll quit... but that's a minority of the FFXI population. Even of your shellmates, probably most wouldn't cheat, but I suspect a good deal wouldn't be tossing their kaizen pearls on the first scandal. And to be honest I'd hope not... that your members have loyalty to your shell more than that.
- Joined
- May 21, 2004
- Messages
- 831
- Age
- 41
- Location
- In the Woods
- Website
- www.bowguild.org
- Main Job
- Secondary Job
- Third Job
- Linkshell
- CelestialKnights
Firestreak said:
I would hope those people toss their kaizen pearls if leadership accepted cheating as a means of progression, despite the rewards kaizen would offer. I'm merely using your example of kaizen in this instance. In no way am I suggesting they they hack, as I believe they are one of the groups least infultrated by cheaters. I'm simply sticking with the example presented above.
Likewise, if I ever condoned CK cheating I would sure as hell hope that my guys drop their pearls too. There's a difference between "first scandal" and repeated permitting of a known hacker to continue to do so for the shell. It all depends on whether or not action is taken against the cheater when hacks are discovered. The second this game becomes about cheating to the top is the second i quit MMO forever. Reputations change only if you let them.
There is NO hack tolerance here. People accept that there is hacking only because thus far there has been no successful means of putting an end to it. The only people that are tolerating hacks are those who hack themselves.
If you know someone hacks, point out the evidence and removed them from the end game scene altogether. The solution can be that simple if end game leaders work together and choose to make it so.
Well you have to accept that there's a world of difference between people who will tolerate cheating and people who would cheat themselves. In CK and Kaizen for example there are people who have accepted cheating in other shells. It's not the same thing as if they'd cheated themselves, but it means there's going to be a portion of people willing to stay.
Many of the shell leaders who on QCDN have taken strong positions against cheat have shell members or even sackholders who don't share their same intolerance. While you have the ability(sort of) to create a clean shell, you can't make a shell out of people who are going to drop their pearl at the first sign of cheating. Peregrine for example was highly critical of OH for hacks while at the same time had Daveman and Zylia in leadership positions of his own shell.
In the end I'd prefer to be in a linkshell where people wouldn't toss their shells over cheating. Of course in the end most shells are actually like that but won't admit it like I will. I'd rather just say I'm willing to tolerate it than do what people do all over QCDN - basically denying good evidence against their own linkshell members if any of it is deniable while latching onto any limp evidence of their rival shells and assuming it's solid proof.
I'm willing to admit I can't be unbiased with my own shellmates and I'd always want to think the best of them... and always want to think the worst of my rivals, so would rather just not judge.
Many of the shell leaders who on QCDN have taken strong positions against cheat have shell members or even sackholders who don't share their same intolerance. While you have the ability(sort of) to create a clean shell, you can't make a shell out of people who are going to drop their pearl at the first sign of cheating. Peregrine for example was highly critical of OH for hacks while at the same time had Daveman and Zylia in leadership positions of his own shell.
In the end I'd prefer to be in a linkshell where people wouldn't toss their shells over cheating. Of course in the end most shells are actually like that but won't admit it like I will. I'd rather just say I'm willing to tolerate it than do what people do all over QCDN - basically denying good evidence against their own linkshell members if any of it is deniable while latching onto any limp evidence of their rival shells and assuming it's solid proof.
I'm willing to admit I can't be unbiased with my own shellmates and I'd always want to think the best of them... and always want to think the worst of my rivals, so would rather just not judge.
Firestreak said:
That's not what I said. What I said and meant is that people who distribute and say that hacking is the only way to advance are encouraging more and more people who are getting to 75 to cheat to get items. If they decide on their own that's fine, if they decide because you kept telling them that's the only way they'll get items, it's your fault as well as theirs.
But then again, Perseverance wouldn't have anything if they didn't have hackers, so I can see why they look the other way when Chronicles claims all their nidhoggs and half their fafnirs. I see your point, it's just not exactly what I was talking about.
EDIT: I'm not trying to say I'm 100% anti-cheating and I'll stop being someone's friend because they cheated. I'm just commenting that influencing "younger" or newer generation of endgamers to hack is not the right way to go
Artem said:
Let me put it this way... I was in OH from basically the start to finish, and not once was I encouraged to hack. Now, maybe on some servers they have shells where people are told to hack because it's just the standard there, but wasn't that way in OH. I did get fed a lot of info about other people hacking, and seeing how people like Chasym I can see now are just plain liars about that sort of thing, I imagine a lot of the information about other shells was false. However, it was always, always my choice. I decided not to hack because I wasn't ready to leave FF like many of the others were.
I think it's unfair to pass the buck around, but maybe that's just because that relieves me of responsibility. It's just how I think in general.. in game and out of game, people are responsible for their own choices. I'm not going to try and parent the world or the server, friends or shellmates. It's between them and society around them, period. If someone wants to hold it against me, they can go ahead... I have enough friends already. =p
By the way, just curious but has anyone ever been booted from CK or Kaizen for cheating?
Yes, there has been members booted from CK for cheating. I'm not gonna say who, as that's not my place in the shell. If Ana wants to say who he can.