12.95 to have ppl play the game for you.

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Firestreak you have a very good argument but still video games are a form of entertainment. If you're not having fun it's not serving it's purpose at it's core. If people want to play as RDM/NIN, or WAR/WHM it's their game and the only thing you can do if it rubs you the wrong way is not invite them. Yes it is a very party driven game but it's also a very social game. I played in a static as my first 30 levels as a RDM/MNK and while I look back on it now I probably would of subbed a WHM but I had a hell of a good time. I had nobody telling me "I sucked" and my LS being the kinda people they are just let me learn it on my own.

I now play a SMN/WHM and get rather pissed off sometimes when people ask me to main heal. Some of the best parties I've been in have been the worst set ups. We all just laugh about it. My fave party (other than my LS party) I'd like to call the "Linking Party". All we did is end up linking beetles in the Nest, somehow surviving BARELY and laughing our asses off in the process. We had no tank, no whm and were playing the hate bounce game while I main healed with a RDM. So much fun!

Square has given you a tool to not deal with people you don't like in this game. You don't have to party with them or invite them, so don't. That being said don't go out of your way to be an ass and a know it all. If someone want's your help they'll ask for it and everyone has the right to play this game in a trial and error mannor. The Japanese believe it or not didn't stat this game as all knowing Game masters. They all started off as newbs and had to learn the game for themselves. I've learnt a lot of what not to do ON MY OWN by playing a RDM/MNK and then moving onto a SMN/WHM.

If you don't like the way someone plays leave them alone and don't deal with them at all. I get a lot of questions about summoners when capping my skill and I'll answer them as best as I can but I'm not going to run around and look for people to tell what to do.

I like this game because it's social and I like helping people. I know a lot of people aren't like this but I'd rather play with a really nice shitty player rather than an uber elite asshole. :D
 
Firestreak, you're right in a way. I'm not talking about people telling you that the combo is bad. I'm not talking about people not inviting someone because of their subjob choice. I'm talking about the people that feel that it's their god-given duty to flame people that have a different subjob choice than what they think is "right". As I said before, advice is advice.Why can't someone post 20 but pre 60 sub samurai? Pre 60 /sam's aren't the best combo, but you still get the store-tp trait. (<---advice) I WILL kick someone from a party if I feel they are too gimped to contribute, I WILL NOT invite someone with a gimped subjob (the aforementioned whm/war would never have been invited by me), I WILL tell people the right equipment for their job/level and what alternates they might be able to use for the Uber/expensive gear. But I'm not going to /tell someone who is soloing with no flag up that their combo "sucks" and continue to mess with them even after they say "I use this to solo". I'm not going to verbally bash someone with a "bad" sub-job unless they give me the "STFU b!tch, d0nt 7311 M3 wut 2 do!" line. It's THAT attitude that is ruining the NA reputation. The whole "I-Know-What-I'm-Doing-So-You-Can-Fuck-Off" attitude is the one that pisses me off.
And Krono, read the fucking post before you start drooling stupid all over the thread. It's really annoying to repeat yourself over and over.
 
Ah, I'm beginning to think there's different types of players. As far as I can gather, there are:

Zealous Gamers - People who play the normative way and follow the unwritten rules of the community as what works best. They expect other players to adhere to playing in the way that has been proven to maximize time spent.

Fun Players - The players who play for fun to enjoy the game. They tolerate the choices of others because they assume people are just having fun with their actions.

Noobs - People who say they know everything but don't know anything. (overstatement)

Newbs - Well...new people.

I'm just observing these types of people as they seem to emerge. I'm pretty sure people jump from fun to zealous and back occassionally too depending on the mood.

You know what? Everyone is entitled to their OPINION. If there was a SET WAY to play, S-E wouldn't have bothered to have the support job feature. You'd figure they would just make just a single class that can incorporate it all. So with that in mind, I'm pretty sure there is no absolute way to play. However, there is the PREFERRED way to play. Btw, if I'm playing the game and not having fun, why bother? I might as well go to work because I definitely don't have much fun there and I would get paid to do that. If people weren't supposed to play a certain way, they would have restricted our choice to play that way.

It's true this game does work around other people, however, shouldn't people just find other people who share their extreme values to play with (ie. A "Play this way and only this way" LS, yet again, probably an exagerration)?
 
Narell said:
Honestly, there are some really bad job combos.... Advice is one thing but to spam and flame people or a job combination?... If you don't like someone's combo DON'T FUCKING INVITE THEM TO A PARTY!!!
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I said all this in my first post, why is it that people only focus on the fact that I said people should mind their own business?
 
Well you say that people should play the game to have fun, and yes it's entertainment.

I'm saying, this is the way the game is played. This is the way it should be played. As we are now, in truth people playing selfishly is tolerated, which is why when you invite a NA member to your party, you don't know what you're going to get. As a result people form statics. As a result people get bored by the exact same party over and over again, or don't static and are constantly frusterated by incompetance.

My point is... would it be better if when you invited a whitemage you got someone who was dedicated to the standard tasks of being whitemage? Wouldn't it be better if at any level, you could simply invite random strangers and have a great party? It's how for the most part how the Japanese play, but for some reason we are so different, and the reason is, this attitude. If you want to melee, play a dark knight. For every type of game play you wish, there is a main job that specializes in it.

The problem is, everyone is in a huge race to level 75. They think they will be respected as a high level just for that, even if they on their way up never stopped to get the needed equipment/spells.

And yes, games are about having fun. But I'm trying to say, not every game is for every person. There are many different MMORPG out there, and each are designed for a different type of gamer. This game is designed for people who are patient and like to work together. For people who take a lot of pride in their given job. Simply ask yourself, is that you? It may not be. I'm not saying you're a bad person for this, I'm saying you're playing the wrong game.
 
And to Narell: To critize those who can't conform is simply for many the only way at all that they will understand what they are doing is not the correct way to play. If you completely disagree with all I have said, then you will disagree that it is just to tell people that they are playing incorrectly.
But for many of us it is simply... the last resort, because nothing else works. Nothing else will work for Naveronasis to tell her not to open with ancient magic as her/his first spell, as any attempt to critisize will meet with "don't tell me how to play the game." You simply have to make the game unplayable for them if they refuse to work with others, as opposed to them making the game unplayable for 5 other people in their party.
As for talking to some stranger and telling them based on their subjob that they suck, when they are >not< seeking party, that is another matter. Many of my jobs have certain requirements I have yet to furfill, and I don't seek party with those jobs, because I know another person who has put the time in should be in that slot not me until I'm ready.
But, alas, the race to 75 goes on, no stops to level subs or update gear allowed.
 
First, I enjoy playing a Paladin/ Warrior and wouldn't have it any other way. I don't try to lvl as fast as possible but I do try to be the best at my job. The position I'm taking isn't FOR people who choose job combos or bad equipment or etc. etc. The position I'm taking is against people who decide they have absolutely every right to tell someone off for having a job combo they think is "bad".
In my opinion, if you give someone advice and they don't take it then that's their problem. If you /tell someone with "Dude, WTF is wrong with you being a war/whm?!? You fucking noob, thats not how you should play!" they aren't going to listen, they're going to resent you. A simple "Hey, you know you'd probably get more invites and be happier with a different combo. Try mnk or ninja as a sub." They might actually listen to you. If they were playing solo they might have been using Whm as a sub for less downtime and might have a better sub. Unfortunately, you usually run into someone who refuses to listen to you and will respond with "Fuck you, don't tell me what to do." It's just how it goes, you can't do anything about how ppl play just like they can't do anything about how you feel about their subjob choice.
 
I was showed kindness once when I didn't have the "normal" sub for RDM...

I was doing SAM quest, and Masterorion was killing the mobs for me, and when we went to Forger, this friend of Masterorion's was there, and he checked me, and I was anon, but having two dagger's and casting Enthunder kind of gave it away, lol.

Guy: RDM/NIN?
Me: For soloing
Guy: Good man ;)

I guess he was cool enough to at least let me have an explanation, and i guess he also knew it was good for soloing ^^;

But really, people, having an abnormal sub isn't bad, some people who actually care about their job will do the best of what they can do.

RDM/NIN can do well in a party, but a lot of people play it badly, and thus, people flame anyone with this combo. Played right will amaze people, hahahah ^^

When I am leveling WAR, I sub /SAM, not just because it gives TP store, also it gives Good HP, VIT, AGI, STR, and DEX. Also it's my highest melee job ^^ It works really good, so far, and I haven't been flamed about it =/ I hope not either

<==13WAR so far...ugh, I need to level WAR for SAM ; ;

Sometimes when I see an unorginal job combo, I would check their equipment, if it actually is quite good stuff, I'll invite them and see what they can do...I support people who try irregular job combo's :)
 
Firestreak said:
You're running around as a whm/mnk so you can go nuts with your club because you think it's the most fun thing possible.
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If someone invites a whm/mnk in the first place, it is the parties’ leaders fault. Even if there is no other WHM around, I just would not invite that person.

I also seem to get stuck being party leader because everyone says I put together good parties. Well my simple rule is not to take what ever is available. If I can’t find people that meet the criteria for the spot I have open, then I do not bother inviting someone else. I know this is harder post 50, because there are fewer people, but by then you do not see near as many poor choose combos. That does not mean I do not put together some very odd party configuration, but the configurations I put together tend to work out very well, since each job complements each job. When it comes to equipment ask them before you invite them. Do you have a Great Axe? Do you have food? I also do not push a party past its limits, if an odd configuration works, but can’t pull in an Exp Chain 6; I’m not going to force them to do it. That only gets people killed; don’t be afraid of the kick button either, if someone else tries.

If you are going to critique someone, do it nicely in the form of advice. Second know why you are doing it. Do not tell a RDM they should have BLM subbed if you do not know why they should have BLM subbed, especially when it is correct for them to have WHM subbed. If they are not in your party and have not asked for help, then do not say a word when you see a BLM/WAR running around. They need to learn on there own, and that is only going to happen if people stop cradle them along, because they could not find a BLM/WHM.
 
Well some people can be total jerks in the game. It's one thing to give helpful advice and it's another to not even try to help the person and just wine.

But the most annoying thing would have to be when I would actually try to give some helpful advice and the newb totally gets pissed and yells at me.

Another thing I would have to say is I don't like gimps. In a game where you rely on others to play with I would rather not play with somone who is not doing 100%. Be the gear or the skill of the player (mostly applies to dumb mages and ninjas). I find it fun to level in this game and get to the higher points where I can do the higher rank missions. And I don't find it fun when I have to play with others who prolong that horrible experience in Qufim or Kazham. I would like to have fun in this game. Please don't let me drop down into the red then decide to spam CureIII. Please don't come into my party at level65drk and not have even one sniper ring. Please go away.
 
Whm/mnk is an extreme example, but I have seen it at lower levels.

And you are right to the fact it is the leader's fault as much as the gimp. Like you get an invite from a good player, but he has also invited many bad players. But you're just a member, so you take the hit and try to get some XP out of it. Is this such a bad thing? For you it's unfortunate because it's substandard xp, but unfortunately the alternative is no party, or, a party full of total incompetancy. So you settle for what works, even if it works badly. Never forget >why< you settle. Because of all the hoards and hoards of terrible players, it seems like there is no choice but to do that, to static or to not level at all. And some of the good players static, and then there are even less available NA to party with that are skillful. But many who are not static are good, but there is a sea of questipnables and no way to know. And when one makes a statement like "I'm not wasting money on food," even at lvl 48, you are left with the idea that if you just demand they are kicked or you leave, you earn a bad reputation as being a jerk or whatever. They get in a party, they are looking for members and they say not to invite you. Instead I simply make a note of who is good and who is bad, and when I am invited to a PT I suggest who to invite and who not. But unfortunately many bad players level up alongside me.
And you try to give them the message of "play for the team" but that message is rapidly lost in the blur of levelups. And even at lvl 70+ there are players I consider distinctly good or bad. Of course there is nothing that can be done except to politely suggest to them, because at this point they are set in their ways of course.
 
A lot of it is definition of what is substandard. There are “elitist” players (and I’m not calling anyone an elitist, I just tend to deal with a lot of them in the game) that if you are doing anything other than chain 6, you are a horrible player. Elitist need to party with elitist, simple because anything less than the absolute highest possibility isn’t going to be good enough, no matter if you have the right subjob or not. Problem elitist have is there is not near enough of them, so they want everyone to be elitist. Now on the other hand, if the party I am in is only getting 70 exp and has to rest for 5 minutes after each battle, yes that is substandard.

I have been in parties that strive for the highest possible exp, and I do not consider it fun at all. It is nerve racking and stressful, which if I wanted that I would go to work. I am for “Team Play” but by no means do I expect a person to sacrifice there fun, so that I can have fun.

Now because a person is not an elitist, does not mean they are crappy players. As you can see I have BLM and WHM available to sub to my Red Mage, I choose equipment to enhance my stats (but do not have the +2, 5mil per item crap). I keep my equipment up to date, as well as my spells. I know what spells to cast when, I know how to conserve my MP and manage hate. If I need food I use it and have it with me. I can switch roles in mid battle if the need comes up, but I am not going to kill my self, just so some body can reach level 75 in 2 months.

Basically if I do not notice that the time has passed, then I consider it a good party.
 
if you just demand they are kicked or you leave, you earn a bad reputation as being a jerk or whatever.
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I've personally done this on multiple occasions. I'm kinda surprised there hasn't been a post in here about me to be honest. I don't mind so much the lvl 20-30 players that don't know what's going on, but when you get to the 40+ players... I just have no patience. I will absolutely refuse to hold the hand of a bad/noob player after level 40. If it means my partial-static doesn't get any XP, oh well.

I completely agree with firestreak. But I do somewhat agree with the OP. There's no reason for you to even mention anything to someone who isn't in your party or seeking. It's just not necessary.

I'd have to assume most of the people that say to play as you want probably don't know what it's like to be @15,000 or 20,000. Let's see if you still feel that way after you can't get a decent party for a week because you have incompetent players in your group who play to have "fun". As I've said before, my idea of fun is to get as much xp as possible in as short a period as possible. We don't always do great, but when I heard the story that our NIN told me, I just cringed.

He had died a few times from 40-50 thanks to funnel bats and spiders, so he was out getting some extra XP while we take our gil / genkai break. He's in a party doing beetles and bats in Garlaige and getting less thank 2k xp per hour. This group of level 50 players proceeded to rave about how good the party is. How the hell is 2k xp per hour even considered good, let alone "rave-worthy"....

(rant on) (Wow, I even told myself I wasn't going to get into it... oops)

I'll tell you why. The attitude that most of the people have on this thread is why. And it's not just you guys, it's most NA players. You all think it's ok to waste your fellow players' time by not having everything up-to-date, by not having ideal job combos, and by not using food / appropriate gear. I'm not singling anyone out here, because most of this doesn't apply to you. I know you all have up-to-date gear and all that. I'm just saying by telling people that it's ok to do what they want, you're bastardizing the game. You're making it impossible for the lvl 50-60 players to find parties if they don't have statics, since the pick-up parties will likely result in negative experience by both definitions of that word.

By playing an odd subjob, or playing a job wrong, you're ruining the experience for the other members of every party you join. If you disagree with that, then I must ask if you have enjoyed EVERY SINGLE bad party you've ever been in? If so, then ... then I don't know really. I guess I just don't understand how getting negative experience can be fun at level 50+. Sure, in earlier levels, any experience can be fun, since it's all new. But there's not much "new" to leveling after 40+. It's all the same as it was the previous 60 levels. And 60 is if your job/sj are the only jobs you have. For me, it's 260 levels. What new xp experience can I possibly have after 260 levels? Well, I guess I'll only count 180 levels, since the rest were probably soloed.
(rant off)
 
Oy - nobody ever said it was allright to be a complete dolt in this game. If you actually read the posts most of the OP - as you put it, is saying if you don't like the way someone plays, don't play with them. I'm one of the players that likes to play more for fun rather than the grind to 75. I enjoy a chatty, happy party who likes to joke around a bit.

That being said a well functioning party is awesome. Nobody's saying it's allright to be an idiot in this game, what they're saying is that it's also not allright to seek out players who pay their cash every month and tell them what to do. Helpful suggestions are great but as in the original post that wasn't the case. People get absolutley crucified for something as stupid as a sub job. I do believe players should have up to date spells and equipment for their job choice because it's a responsible thing to do.

However that being said, a player with up to date equipment/food/spells/whatever who's giving a new subjob a try like say...SMN/BRD, RDM/NIN, WAR/SAM whatever shouldn't be singled out and have their name put up on a flame board. A lot of these people are great players and just may be able to get these job combinations to work. I don't know how you could do it but there's a SMN/BRD that I've heard about that does an awesome job. Players like Rune giving combinations like RDM/NIN a try aren't noobs. They're awesome people with up to date gear trying something new!

There's a huge difference between being a moron and experimenting with something new. :D
 
On the same note as Sabia post. (BTW I think you have got the best Avatar on the board)

I have been told RDM/BRD is one of the hardest Job Combo to pull off, but if you are talented enough to pull it off, it is one of the most powerful support combos available (In the right party configuration). I have considered giving it a try at some point, but I’ll more than likely do that in a static group setup, but I do not want people sending me /tells out of no where “You Noob”.
 
Pascal said:
On the same note as Sabia post. (BTW I think you have got the best Avatar on the board)

I have been told RDM/BRD is one of the hardest Job Combo to pull off, but if you are talented enough to pull it off, it is one of the most powerful support combos available.

Thanks so much Pascal :oops:

And that would be a pretty interesting job combo. I think anything /BRD is nuts and would love to see it used properly :D
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I had a Party in Quifm once where we had enough Damage Output and not enough Support, So one of the Rangers subbed Bard and let me tell you, those Paeon's helped a Bunch. So I have seen /BRD pulled off successfully once. A great Sight Indeed.
 
All job combos work to a certain point. war/whm certainly works.. but it isn't the best. of the many war/ combos you can use. At least the people who use these strange combonations actually have some reason for doing it.. Like they might say it's a gimped pld/war. But the most idiotic combos I can't even understand..

btw. rdm/nin is not a strange new combo. plenty of rdm use it for soloing and HNM purposes. at 74 rdm/nin can solo very well. but for exp pt it is surely strange and new.

You lose the conserve mp trait from /blm and the additional mp as well.
And considering you shouldn't be meleein at those later lvls /nin is just a waste of money and time.

You can try it.. But like y'all said previously I just wont pt with you.
 
Pascal said:
/Personal Rant On

What I find very annoying is there seems to be separate standards for people. Another Red Mage I know is running around at level 36 with level 20 armor on, has not gotten dispel and is not even trying to get it, but he also has the a reputation among people he has partied with as being a crappy Red Mage. So when they invite him, they do not complain because they know from the get go he is going to be crappy, and are only inviting him so to be a healer.

I get complaints for the simplest of things. I was leveling my White Mage and used Curega because I did not feel like Casting Cure II, Cure, and Cure on three people. I was going to have to rest anyways, so it really was not going to slow things down very much (But yes it was not effective MP usage), but because I have shown that I am a decent player, they expect that of me at all times. I have spent so much time being stuck at level 30 getting dispel, my latest equipment, farming that now people are complaining that I need to start leveling again because they want me in there parties, but only a small hand full of them bother to help me get the stuff I need.

And why is it I get the most complaints from Black Mages, of all the Jobs. Red Mage at my level as very little influence on their job. I’ll miss recasting Gravity and the Melee’s won’t complain, but sure enough Black Mage right after the battle, “You need to recast your enfeebles the moment it wears off.” (But he doesn’t see a problem flooding my screen with “I’ll set you on Fire Baby").

/Personal Rant Off

I feel better now, and at least I never have a long wait LFG.
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That's kind of funny! Im sure he was re-enfeebling right away too, huh? Seriously one of my biggest pet peeves is that crap people put in their casting macros. Perhaps Ill get flamed for this because I know there are a lot of people heavily into the role-playing aspect, but this gets annoying. Perhaps you should have said that you were sorry, but you didn't see the enfeeble wear off because off all the useless spam! Cracks me up with a mellee has all kinds of crap he shouts when they use boost etc, but cant be bothered for a TP call. I know Im just a "newb" blm, but believe it or not, I do find it useful too.

Kind of on topic, I was once helping a Brd friend hunt Mary and subbed a 13 Rng. I then got a /tell from someone calling me a newb and telling me to level my sub!! I sent back a /laugh thinking they were joking, but they got a cussing out telling me not to laugh, they know what they're doing, expletive, expletive. To this day, I still hope this was just bad sarcasm.
 
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