8 years old Killed 2 people o.O

[Mirewen]

I can see where you are coming from, but at the same time I understand that guns are not just meant to hurt people. Guns are also used to protect people, to hunt animals, and for general sport.

Ah I was specifically talking to hand held guns. I don't agree with hunting but I know that some people do rely on it for food.

 

[Sabia]

A semi automatic weapon has no other purpose other than to kill another human being - same goes for hand guns...

I hate guns - I like it when my government removes tools for murdering people because people are obviously incapable of taking care of themselves and deciding what's right and wrong as illustrated by the extremely high gun-murder rate in the US....

I love how Americans are okay with the government telling them they're not allowed to consume alcohol until their 21 but can buy guns and join a war at 18 - because you obviously need more common sense that comes with age to drink a beer than you do to own/operate a tool used to kill human beings.

 

[Kerowynn]

Ah I was specifically talking to hand held guns. I don't agree with hunting but I know that some people do rely on it for food.

Sorry I should have mentioned that there are definitely certain types of guns that I don't think should be legal.

A semi automatic weapon has no other purpose other than to kill another human being - same goes for hand guns...

I hate guns - I like it when my government removes tools for murdering people because people are obviously incapable of taking care of themselves and deciding what's right and wrong as illustrated by the extremely high gun-murder rate in the US....

I love how Americans are okay with the government telling them they're not allowed to consume alcohol until their 21 but can buy guns and join a war at 18 - because you obviously need more common sense that comes with age to drink a beer than you do to own/operate a tool used to kill human beings.

I don't agree with the legal limit to drink alcohol being at 21, I think that if you can join the armed forces and buy a gun at 18, you should also be able to drink. For the most part though, I don't think that it's the government's job to remove personal responsibility, which is what they essentially do through excessive regulation.

 

[Makelith]

I can see where you are coming from, but at the same time I understand that guns are not just meant to hurt people. Guns are also used to protect people, to hunt animals, and for general sport.

I consider myself a "leftie" and even i'm against many forms of gun control. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Every time you make a spelling error is it the keyboard/pencil/pen's fault? That being said, however, you don't need to go hunting with an assault rifle or an Uzi.

 

[Mirewen]

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Yes this is true, but the person was someone who should never have had access to a gun.

 

[Uzor]

Also, if I had a gun and someone broke into my house and threatened me, you bet your ass I'd shoot them. Contrary to what some people who are posting here seem to think, I wouldn't feel one iota of guilt over it either. You break into someone's house and you make your own bed to lie in.

You may feel like that now, but once you have killed someone, I'm sure you'll feel a lot different. A lot of people don't realize how they'll feel in a lot of situations, but once but in said situation, act different from the way they'd expect.

A decent example would be the moral dillema of choosing between 2 friends if a murderer came up to you and said "Chose one of them or you all die". Almost everyone you ask would answer that they chose to die themselves, rather then chose one of their friends, but if they would ever be put in a life or death situation (maybe not this one, but say, an accident or something), people might not act the same way they'd expected. In a life or death situation, people tend to not think as clearly as they otherwise would, and survival instincts take over. Even though in the sput of the moment you might shoot him, and even though you think now that it would be ok, you can still be haunted by that memory for a long time.

You seem to think that making guns illegal here would remove the problem. It wouldn't. This country, unlike the ones you point to as examples of countries where guns are illegal and better for it, has always had guns in the general populace. Even if guns were made illegal it would take enormous amounts of capital and decades (if not longer) to get rid of all the guns in the populace. Our already-overrun prisons would be filled with people whose only crime was not being willing to give up one of their rights.

Which problem are we talking about that it wouldn't remove?

Ofcourse the general populace will still have guns, that was never up for debate. However, when the majority of the population don't have guns, that removes a lot of the problem.

And I don't think we're arguing that (or at least i'm not) that the USA should make guns illegal. I'm not. I'm just pointing out the fact that the way USA treat guns isn't as beneficial as most US citizens might think.

Take Canada for example. Like USA, they have guns. As do Switzerland. However, not 11 each, like some of you apparently have.

To make a comparison, This is how many guns exist per citizen, not how many citizens out of 100 that actually have guns:

United States: 90 out of 100
Yemen: 61 out of 100
Switzerland: 46 out of 100
Iraq: 39 out of 100
Serbia 37.5 out of 100
France: 32 out of 100
Finland 32 out of 100
Canada 31.5 out of 100
Sweden 31.5 out of 100
Austria 31 out of 100
Germany 30 out of 100


At some point, especially comparing to other countries with guns, and a lot of them, you need to realize that maybe the way you handle guns aren't very good.

Yes, I'm against owning guns. However, as was stated earlier, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And I, just like most other, realize that removing guns completely from a country is next to impossible. However, obviously the people of USA do SOMETHING different from those other countries.

Switzerland have almost zero gun crimes, and they almost have a law that all adults must wear guns. Not all that diferent from USA, no? Canada, which have almost as many citizens with guns that USA do, also have much lower crime rate. In Canada, handguns of any kind are not allowed if you are a canadian citizen, however, rifles and guns used for hunting are allowed, and all guns and people with guns must be registered.

In Canada, 2007 had 594 murders in total. Out of those, 1/3 were commited with firearms. Out of those murders, a great majority was done by someone that knew the victim. Of the males, the majority were criminal-related murders, such as criminal gangs etc. The females were usually murdered by a former lover, or by a family member.

In Canada, the homicide rate is at about 1.9 per 100000 citizen, while in USA it is at 5.6 per 100000 citizen. This is almost 3 times as high, which is oddly familiar to another number I mentioned earlier (Canada has 31 guns per 100 citizen, USA have 90).

In Switzerland, the homicide rate is at 1.2 per 100000 citizen, half are done by firearmd.

In Yemen, this number is at 3

My point is, most of these countries I mentioned, except Yemen and USA, have fewer guns per citizen. However, some of them (Switzerland and Canada for example) have about the same ammount of citizens that own a gun. Yet, their homicide rate is way below USA. The more guns are in circulation, the less controll there are over them, and the more likely it is something like this will happen. With better gun control in USA, and with better gun laws, I'm sure you'd have less accidents like this.

Also, Sweden have a homicide rate of about 1 per 100000 citizen in case you were wondering.

 

[Sabia]

I don't agree with the legal limit to drink alcohol being at 21, I think that if you can join the armed forces and buy a gun at 18, you should also be able to drink. For the most part though, I don't think that it's the government's job to remove personal responsibility, which is what they essentially do through excessive regulation.

The problem with the above statement is people who are responsible enough to make decisions like "Should I keep a weapon capable of blowing myself or another human being away in my house?" aren't the ones that are using/owning the weapons. Criminal access to guns will always be there but removing them from the general population prevents things like the mentioned incident happening. I've read so many stories where kids accidentally blow away their friends or father's shoot their sons in a case of mistaken identity. The worst thing that would happen in my or any of my families households in the case of a mistaken identity is you'd get hit in the face with a big stick, get some stitches and go on about your lives laughing about the indecent at a later date. A good example to use is comparing school shootings. In Canada we have gun regulation and had a school shooting in northern Alberta - he had access to one gun and was able to shoot three students, killing one before running out of guns/ammo - you guys have columbine....

Humans have time and time again illustrated that they are incapable of taking care of themselves in certain situations.

Guns scare me and people who use guns scare me even more. Just last week I was reading a story on my greyhound board about a neighbor a woman was dealing with that was popping shots off at her greyhounds from his property. I was also reading a story on the net about some lady who had 2 beautiful German shepherds who accidentally escaped and one of her neighbors shot one of them to death. I've never seen anything good come from owning a gun. If someone broke into my house the last thing I"d want to do is shoot them because my TV =/= to someones life.

 

[Uzor]

Good luck trying to take guns from 100 million or so angry Americans defending their right to their guns. Most western countries are not the USA, we take our rights very seriously, we also take any government intervention into our lives seriously.

------

Maybe it's just a cultural difference, but generally speaking in this country we do not like any rights to be taken away, and we prefer a minimal amount of government intervention in our lives. Personally I think that there is too much government intervention as it is.

Do you REALLY think that USA is so much different then the rest of the western countries when it comes to rights and how serious we take them? And do you really think the other western countries enjoy governmental intervention?

Answer honestly.

 

[Sabia]

Adding a perfect example of why humans are incapable of making some choices/decisions on their own pertaining to guns;
Taken From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/

WESTFIELD, Mass. - An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman’s Club, police Lt. Lawrence Vallierpratte said.

Police said the boy, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and called the death a “self-inflicted accidental shooting.”

As the boy fired the Uzi, "the front end of the weapon went up with the backfire and he ended up receiving a round in his head," police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. The boy died at a hospital.

The boy's father and older brother were also there at the time, a gun club member and school official said. Francis Mitchell, a longtime member and trustee of the club, said he was told the boy's father was supporting his son from behind when the shooting happened.

Although the death appeared to be an accident, officials were investigating.

It is legal in Massachusetts for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor, Lt. Hipolito Nunez said. The name of the instructor helping the boy was not released.

Why...?

And another...

Boy shot dead playing trick-or-treat on Halloween

By staff writers

NEWS.com.au

November 02, 2008 12:52am

* Family shot at while playing trick-or-treat
* Gunman shot from inside a house they visited
* 12-year-old boy killed, father and brother wounded

A 12-year-old boy has been shot dead while playing trick-or-treat on Halloween night.

His family had decided to stop at some houses on the way home from a city event in Sumter, South Carolina.

As the boy's father approached a house with his four children, their mother waited in the car. When they reached the door, they heard what they thought were fireworks.

The boy, his father, and his brother were hit by gunfire from inside the house.

The boy died at the hospital, while his father and brother were treated for non-life-threatening injuries.

Shooting suspect Quentin Patrick, 22, has been charged with murder and three counts of assault and battery with intent to kill.

Sumter Police Chief Patty Patterson said there were other people inside the house but they are not expected to be charged.

Neighbours ignored the commotion, thinking it was a Halloween prank.

"I thought, trick-or-treat night - pranks go down. Anything goes," said Lenwood Dixon, 49.

"I heard a noise like maybe gunfire, then my daughter saw a bunch of lights flashing and saw some cops."

In his six years in the neighbourhood, Mr Dixon said he wasn't aware of any violent crimes. He said a few trick-or-treaters had been on his block that night.

"I'm surprised. Since I was here, I'd never heard of anything like that happening," he said.

"It's a quiet neighbourhood.''

Note, these are just 2 recent incidents.

 

[Kerowynn]

I consider myself a "leftie" and even i'm against many forms of gun control. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Every time you make a spelling error is it the keyboard/pencil/pen's fault? That being said, however, you don't need to go hunting with an assault rifle or an Uzi.

This kind of sums up my view also.

Yes this is true, but the person was someone who should never have had access to a gun.

People who want to kill people will find a way if they are determined enough.

The problem with the above statement is people who are responsible enough to make decisions like "Should I keep a weapon capable of blowing myself or another human being away in my house?" aren't the ones that are using/owning the weapons. Criminal access to guns will always be there but removing them from the general population prevents things like the mentioned incident happening. I've read so many stories where kids accidentally blow away their friends or father's shoot their sons in a case of mistaken identity. The worst thing that would happen in my or any of my families households in the case of a mistaken identity is you'd get hit in the face with a big stick, get some stitches and go on about your lives laughing about the indecent at a later date. A good example to use is comparing school shootings. In Canada we have gun regulation and had a school shooting in northern Alberta - he had access to one gun and was able to shoot three students, killing one before running out of guns/ammo - you guys have columbine....

Humans have time and time again illustrated that they are incapable of taking care of themselves in certain situations.

Guns scare me and people who use guns scare me even more. Just last week I was reading a story on my greyhound board about a neighbor a woman was dealing with that was popping shots off at her greyhounds from his property. I was also reading a story on the net about some lady who had 2 beautiful German shepherds who accidentally escaped and one of her neighbors shot one of them to death. I've never seen anything good come from owning a gun. If someone broke into my house the last thing I"d want to do is shoot them because my TV =/= to someones life.

You have obviously never been in a situation where your life was in danger and would have been lost if you did not have a gun to defend yourself. These situations do happen, if my mom had not carried a gun for several years, I would probably not be here today and she certainly wouldn't.

Do you REALLY think that USA is so much different then the rest of the western countries when it comes to rights and how serious we take them? And do you really think the other western countries enjoy governmental intervention?

Answer honestly.

I really think that rebelling against the government is ingrained in our culture, and I really think that there would be serious reprecussions if our government made guns illegal to own by the general population.

You mentioned the statistic that 90/100 people in the US own a gun. Even if most of those people give them up willingly, the millions who don't will create a huge problem for this country.

Adding a perfect example of why humans are incapable of making some choices/decisions on their own pertaining to guns;
Taken From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/


Why...?

And another...



Note, these are just 2 recent incidents.

No one in the general populace should be shooting an automatic weapon, let alone a kid. That's a prime example of a bad parent and yes the laws for automatic weapons should be changed.

As for your second example, I refer to my first comment above about the fact that people who want to kill people will find a way to do it.

 

[Sabia]

They might find a way to do it but you can't stab someone through a house wall, blow a kid away with a knife through a door or beat someone to death in a different car while driving an SUV down a highway...

You have obviously never been in a situation where your life was in danger and would have been lost if you did not have a gun to defend yourself. These situations do happen, if my mom had not carried a gun for several years, I would probably not be here today and she certainly wouldn't.

Sorry to hear this and thank god the situation didn't go the other way but where I live I don't really fear for my life on a regular basis, at least not enough to be paranoid enough to carry a weapon in my house. I live in one of Canada's biggest cities and I am genuinely not scared of my neighbors and really don't think I'm ever going to be put in a situation where I need a firearm. I do think i could be robbed but that's why I have two large dogs (that and I love them to bits and pieces) and while they wouldn't do anything to a thief other than run up to him and ask for pets, they're a pretty good deterrent - besides it's just property/possessions which can be replaced, lives can't.

 

[Kerowynn]

You may feel like that now, but once you have killed someone, I'm sure you'll feel a lot different. A lot of people don't realize how they'll feel in a lot of situations, but once but in said situation, act different from the way they'd expect.

I'm sure that I wouldn't. I'm not saying that being in that kind of situation would make me happy by any means, but it wouldn't be something that I would lose a lot of sleep over. I do not think that all people deserve to live, and I believe that if you commit a crime you should be prepared to pay for it. Trust me, if it comes down to my life being threatened, I won't hesitate.

Would you hesitate to shoot a rabid dog that was threatening you or your family? Would you lose sleep over it?

I am not scared of guns, but I'm sure as hell scared of people.

 

[Sabia]

Would you hesitate to shoot a rabid dog that was threatening you or your family? Would you lose sleep over it?

I am not scared of guns, but I'm sure as hell scared of people.

I would lose sleep over shooting a rabid dog and would do it to protect my family. Also, yes people are scary - but people WITH guns are even more frightening. Someone pounding on my door to get into my house would be scary - someone shooting holes through my door trying to get into my house would be terrifying.

 

[Mirewen]

People who want to kill people will find a way if they are determined enough.

But it's harder to accidently kill someone with a spoon. :dur:

 

[Darklilac]

Wow, that's pretty messed up.

 

[Kerowynn]

They might find a way to do it but you can't stab someone through a house wall, blow a kid away with a knife through a door or beat someone to death in a different car while driving an SUV down a highway...

Sorry to hear this and thank god the situation didn't go the other way but where I live I don't really fear for my life on a regular basis, at least not enough to be paranoid enough to carry a weapon in my house. I live in one of Canada's biggest cities and I am genuinely not scared of my neighbors and really don't think I'm ever going to be put in a situation where I need a firearm. I do think i could be robbed but that's why I have two large dogs (that and I love them to bits and pieces) and while they wouldn't do anything to a thief other than run up to him and ask for pets, they're a pretty good deterrent - besides it's just property/possessions which can be replaced, lives can't.

You're right, guns do make it easier. I think that the right to own guns should be more controlled, but not eliminated in this country.

There can be situations that can make owning a gun necessary, regardless of where you live.

I think that there are definite problems in this country that manifest themselves through the use of guns sometimes, but the underlying problem is not the guns, but the social issues that cause their use.

 

[Uzor]

I'm sure that I wouldn't. I'm not saying that being in that kind of situation would make me happy by any means, but it wouldn't be something that I would lose a lot of sleep over. I do not think that all people deserve to live, and I believe that if you commit a crime you should be prepared to pay for it. Trust me, if it comes down to my life being threatened, I won't hesitate.

Would you hesitate to shoot a rabid dog that was threatening you or your family? Would you lose sleep over it?

I am not scared of guns, but I'm sure as hell scared of people.

We're talking about humans, not rabid dogs. You can't compare a criminal to a rabid dog. By the end of the day, a criminal is still a sleeping-pooping-eating-fucking human built with flesh and blood, a dog, while doing the same things, is not a human.

You mentioned the statistic that 90/100 people in the US own a gun. Even if most of those people give them up willingly, the millions who don't will create a huge problem for this country.

Those statistics isn't how many people actually own a gun. It simply shows that out of every 100 US citizens, there's 90 guns to go around.

And really, as I mentioned before, I'm not sure why exactly people living in the states care more about their rights then any other country. Most western countries care about their rights, and fight just as much for them. If a government ever tried to take a right away from them, I'll promise they would fight just as hard as any US citizen would.

The difference is that in most Western countries, owning a gun isn't a right. Free speech etc. are rights. Owning a gun is not. I don't exactly know why you think the rest of the Western world would NOT fight just as hard as you would if our right for, say free speech would be taken away from us.

 

[Skaw]

Yes this is true, but the person was someone who should never have had access to a gun.

If someone wants to kill someone, they're going to do so. Whether it be by gun, knife, fork, stone, or their bare hands.

Those statistics isn't how many people actually own a gun. It simply shows that out of every 100 US citizens, there's 90 guns to go around.

Different tools for different applications. Much like like different sized wrenches and screwdrivers. My brother and grandfather are both avid hunters, and they both own several rifles and shotguns each. Saying there are 90 guns per 100 people randomly selected is moot. Since theoretically, they could all belong to a single person who likes to collect them.

 

[Sabia]

If someone wants to kill someone, they're going to do so. Whether it be by gun, knife, fork, stone, or their bare hands.

Someone determined to kill someone will probably do so but without a gun it's going to be a hell of a lot harder. I have a chance of outrunning someone who has a knife or hammer but am just going to get shot in the back if I try to outrun someone who has a gun. Also you don't usually have innocent people killed when someone is being stabbed. I have yet to hear of a situation where some gang member is trying to kill another gang member and a stray knife goes flying through a wall into a little girl sitting there watching TV - this however is quite a common occurrence when it comes to gun violence.

 

[Skaw]

So let's punish the majority for the idiocy of a few? That's a very awful way of dealing with any situation.