A continuation of last year's organ harvesting scandal

[bigbroon]

So you respect people's choices as long as they're the choices YOU think they should be making? Talk about hypocracy....

Why don't you just say the truth? That you have no respect at all for other people's religious and/or cultural beliefs and that stealing, and that's exactly what it is stealing, from dead people is perfectly moral and sensible for you.

At least I'd respect your honesty in this matter.

Your post shows perfectly the flaws in your reading comprehension. It's nothing to do with my choices, it's what I believe should be the way things are done. There are some things that you should be allowed to choose, and others that you shouldn't. I don't believe keeping organs in a dead body should be a choice people should be allowed to make.

Like I said, I respect people's choices, but I don't believe this is a choice people should be allowed to make.

I respect people's choices, as long as what they're choosing is reasonable.

I respect people's choices, so long as their choice is acceptable.

Should I put it another way, or do you understand what I'm saying yet? It's not hypocritical, it's my opinion. Ok, I'll put it one more way for you.

I respect people's choice to keep their organs in their bodies after they die now, because it's their right to keep the organs in their bodies now, but I think it should be changed so that people cannot make the choice to keep their own organs. Either that, or make everyone an organ donor by default, and invent a register for people who don't want their organs donated. That way, people who have no issue with donating but haven't registered still make use of their organs after they die, whatever the reason for them not registering may be.

Clear yet? I can't quite tell whether you choose not to read certain things properly, or you're just totally oblivious to the fact that other people can have different opinions. Accept that in life, people are going to think your opinions are wrong and theirs are right, that's what an opinion is.

 

[Ravic]

Loath as I am to admit it, Tom is right. You're stance is hypocritical. It's clear from your posts that, at least in this case, you don't respect that people can choose to keep their organs after death. You begrudgingly tolerate it, and only because that's the way it is. The fact that you'd prefer to take away that choice shows as much.

Additionally, there are issues with automatic forfeit of organs that no one here seems to be thinking about. What if someone dies at home and the family refuses to surrender the body? What happens if a family decides to bury/cremate their loved one before his/her organs can be handed out as party favors? Does the body get confiscated as evidence? Taken by force? If already buried, is it exhumed? Will they be penalized? Fines or jail time? Will the family of the deceased be compensated for having their loved one carved up like a turkey? Per organ or per recipient? Do they get any say in what organs are taken? How long will it take to harvest all the organs? Should a family be forced to wait to bury lay the body to rest? Who would handle the influx of extra bodies that needed to be harvested? Would coroners and medical examiners be tasked to handle the spillover? Would they be compensated for the extra work?

And that's only worrying about simple, procedural issues. Hypothetical situation: Patient A is in a accident and is in critical condition. Touch and go, maybe 50/50 they'll make it through the night. Patient B is in need of an organ transplant and A is a match. Knowing as soon as A dies, their organs are up for grabs, do you expect me to believe that the medical staff won't be pressuring A's family to sign a DNR? What if some doctor decides to take the initiative themselves? Who's to say that not knowing the organs will be transplanted isn't what has kept some doctors from doing just that already?

Then again, maybe it's not reasonable and acceptable to keep those precious organs trapped inside a dying body. So maybe people shouldn't have that choice either?

 

[Tomasello]

Like I said, I respect people's choices, but I don't believe this is a choice people should be allowed to make.

That's called hypocracy....

I respect people's choices, as long as what they're choosing is reasonable.

That's called hypocracy....

I respect people's choices, so long as their choice is acceptable.

That's called hypocracy....

Should I put it another way, or do you understand what I'm saying yet?

Yes, I understand. You're a hypocrite. It's like saying, "I love jello, as long as I don't have to eat it." I'm starting to believe you don't understand the words coming out of your own mouth.

Loath as I am to admit it, Tom is right. You're stance is hypocritical.

Look at that, I guess I'm not the only person who thinks so.

P.S. I'm right ALL the time by the way. Everyone just HATES to admit it!

 

[JP]

That's called hypocracy....



That's called hypocracy....



That's called hypocracy....



Yes, I understand. You're a hypocrite. It's like saying, "I love jello, as long as I don't have to eat it." I'm starting to believe you don't understand the words coming out of your own mouth.



Look at that, I guess I'm not the only person who thinks so.

P.S. I'm right ALL the time by the way. Everyone just HATES to admit it!

While I do agree with you (which is rare) in this thread, you come off as an asshole to everyone. I think you are right, but how you are explaining your point isn't. Calling people names is not a way to get people to take you seriously. Telling people they are something, whether they are or are not, is not a way to get people to take you seriously. So if you stop acting like such a jackass and a troll, you'd probably get more people to agree with you or at least respect you more.

P.S. If you're right ALL the time then I'm Britney, bitch.

P.S.S You can't be right on a opinion. The answer to this thread varies on how people feel. So no, you're not right. You did not "win." You just expressed your opinion and so did others.

 

[bigbroon]

Loath as I am to admit it, Tom is right. You're stance is hypocritical. It's clear from your posts that, at least in this case, you don't respect that people can choose to keep their organs after death. You begrudgingly tolerate it, and only because that's the way it is. The fact that you'd prefer to take away that choice shows as much.

Additionally, there are issues with automatic forfeit of organs that no one here seems to be thinking about. What if someone dies at home and the family refuses to surrender the body? What happens if a family decides to bury/cremate their loved one before his/her organs can be handed out as party favors? Does the body get confiscated as evidence? Taken by force? If already buried, is it exhumed? Will they be penalized? Fines or jail time? Will the family of the deceased be compensated for having their loved one carved up like a turkey? Per organ or per recipient? Do they get any say in what organs are taken? How long will it take to harvest all the organs? Should a family be forced to wait to bury lay the body to rest? Who would handle the influx of extra bodies that needed to be harvested? Would coroners and medical examiners be tasked to handle the spillover? Would they be compensated for the extra work?

And that's only worrying about simple, procedural issues. Hypothetical situation: Patient A is in a accident and is in critical condition. Touch and go, maybe 50/50 they'll make it through the night. Patient B is in need of an organ transplant and A is a match. Knowing as soon as A dies, their organs are up for grabs, do you expect me to believe that the medical staff won't be pressuring A's family to sign a DNR? What if some doctor decides to take the initiative themselves? Who's to say that not knowing the organs will be transplanted isn't what has kept some doctors from doing just that already?

Then again, maybe it's not reasonable and acceptable to keep those precious organs trapped inside a dying body. So maybe people shouldn't have that choice either?

No, it's not hypocrisy. I do respect people's decisions to keep their own organs after they die. My grandfather, who if you've read my post in another thread, died last year and kept his organs because he didn't want to donate them. I respected it then, and I respect it now. I still think it's wrong. Just because I don't agree with something doesn't mean I don't respect people who do. You can through the word "hypocrite" around all you want, but I'm not. Like I said, you can respect something without following the same belief. I don't believe keeping your organs when you die should be a choice, but I respect the fact that other people do believe they should.

I guess it comes down to your definition of respecting other people's opinions. I don't believe in God, but I respect other people that do. I don't believe courts should be taken away because "God will judge everyone", but I respect the fact that some people (a very few people) believe this is way it should be.

Not sharing the same beliefs as others doesn't mean you don't respect their beliefs, we see examples of this every day, and it's how people of different religions can (for the most part) live side by side. The same stands for abortions, pre-marital sex, any controversial issue you'd like to bring up. People are going to disagree with you, it doesn't mean they don't respect your beliefs.

So, again, I don't believe people should be able to chose whether or not they keep their organs after death, but I do respect other people's opinions that they should have this right, and I also respect the right of people, as it stands now, to keep their organs after they die. If you look back to the very start of this thread, I think you'll find me saying what the Israelis did was wrong - in other words, I respect the rights of Palestinians, along with everyone else, to keep their organs after they die.

That's called hypocracy....



That's called hypocracy....



That's called hypocracy....



Yes, I understand. You're a hypocrite. It's like saying, "I love jello, as long as I don't have to eat it." I'm starting to believe you don't understand the words coming out of your own mouth.



Look at that, I guess I'm not the only person who thinks so.

P.S. I'm right ALL the time by the way. Everyone just HATES to admit it!

JP handled you.

 

[Tomasello]

While I do agree with you (which is rare) in this thread, you come off as an asshole to everyone. I think you are right, but how you are explaining your point isn't. Calling people names is not a way to get people to take you seriously. Telling people they are something, whether they are or are not, is not a way to get people to take you seriously. So if you stop acting like such a jackass and a troll, you'd probably get more people to agree with you or at least respect you more.

Insulting me only validates me further because its the last resort of someone whose knows they're wrong and has nothing else to say. I don't really care if a bunch of lefty loons, and that's mostly what QCDN is filled with, think I'm "mean to them". Most of you guys, maybe not you specifically I don't know you, are dangerously naive about the real world and have been brainwashed since early childhood that radical liberal philosophies (ie stealing organs from corpses) are normal.

If I have to slap a few of you around so you'll wake up from fantasy land and realize how foolish some of your opinions are then fine by me. I really don't need anyone's validation. I actually get plenty of /tells and PMs from people who agree with me but don't want to post because they don't what to deal with some of the radical riff raff who comment here.

JP handled you.

And I handled you lol. Even he agrees with me.

While I do agree with you,

 

[JP]

Insulting me only validates me further because its the last resort of someone whose knows they're wrong and has nothing else to say. I don't really care if a bunch of lefty loons, and that's mostly what QCDN is filled with, think I'm "mean to them". Most of you guys, maybe not you specifically I don't know you, are dangerously naive about the real world and have been brainwashed since early childhood that radical liberal philosophies (ie stealing organs from corpses) are normal.

If I have to slap a few of you around so you'll wake up from fantasy land and realize how foolish some of your opinions are then fine by me. I really don't need anyone's validation. I actually get plenty of /tells and PMs from people who agree with me but don't want to post because they don't what to deal with some of the radical riff raff who comment here.



And I handled you lol. Even he agrees with me.

Considering I didn't really insult you, just pointed out the fact you act like an asshole whether you are just acting or actually are one. And apparently I'm insulting you further because I think I'm wrong. So I'm guessing you're wrong too considering I agreed with you. If by "lefty loon" you mean Democrat, then firstly I don't know why the fuck do you keep bring politics into everything. If you know so fucking much, why aren't you the president? And how do you know what most people are? How do you know what I am? I barely check RSI because it's usually filled with a bunch of idiotic debates like this one. Someone usually has to point out something that is happening in a thread for me to even check it. I don't know who is "naive and brainwashed" but it's certainly not me. I've pretty much raised my goddamn self since I was 6 years old. My parents has never hid the real world and how harsh it can be from me. I feel if you donate your organ to save someone's life, good on you. But it is NOT IN ANY WAY selfish if you do not donate your organs. It's completely your decision.

Yeah, you're definitely not slapping me around by the way. I disagree with you most of the time. Whether you make a valid point or not, you make yourself look like an asshole. No wonder those "many people who send you a tell or PM" don't post and agree with you. Because they probably know you make yourself look a bit stupid and agreeing with you will put them in the same pool. It's not the best thing to do, but you do it also. You pool everyone on QCDN as a democrat while half the member base isn't even in the U.S. A lot of them are from Canada/U.K.

And truthfully no one handled anyone considering I agree and disagree with both of you.

 

[Thelona]

I do respect people's decisions to keep their own organs after they die.

I don't believe keeping your organs when you die should be a choice

Its this kind of double talk that makes conservatives say liberals are freakin loons, I don't think you could have done a better job at proving tom's point for him.

Respecting someones choice isn't about thinking its right, or about respecting the person that made it, its about respecting their right to make the choice.


If someone believes that they will not go to heaven because their body is not intact that is their belief. you think just because you believe thats all BS, that they shouldn't even have the choice. You don't respect their beliefs, and you don't respect their choice.

Why do you even keep trying to argue it? Just come on out and say you Don't respect a person choice of what to do with their body after their death? You've said flat out that someone shouldn't have the choice, while continuing to say you respect their choice.

 

[Dancingweapon]

Its this kind of double talk that makes conservatives say liberals are freakin loons, I don't think you could have done a better job at proving tom's point for him.

Well he's actually British so bringing politics from another country into the whole thing is a really stupid counter argument. Bringing politics into this discussion in general is a really stupid thing seeing as this debate was going on fine before it was even mentioned.

 

[JP]

Its this kind of double talk that makes conservatives say liberals are freakin loons, I don't think you could have done a better job at proving tom's point for him.

Considering I didn't really insult you, just pointed out the fact you act like an asshole whether you are just acting or actually are one. And apparently I'm insulting you further because I think I'm wrong. So I'm guessing you're wrong too considering I agreed with you. If by "lefty loon" you mean Democrat, then firstly I don't know why the fuck do you keep bring politics into everything. If you know so fucking much, why aren't you the president? And how do you know what most people are? How do you know what I am? I barely check RSI because it's usually filled with a bunch of idiotic debates like this one. Someone usually has to point out something that is happening in a thread for me to even check it. I don't know who is "naive and brainwashed" but it's certainly not me. I've pretty much raised my goddamn self since I was 6 years old. My parents has never hid the real world and how harsh it can be from me. I feel if you donate your organ to save someone's life, good on you. But it is NOT IN ANY WAY selfish if you do not donate your organs. It's completely your decision.

Yeah, you're definitely not slapping me around by the way. I disagree with you most of the time. Whether you make a valid point or not, you make yourself look like an asshole. No wonder those "many people who send you a tell or PM" don't post and agree with you. Because they probably know you make yourself look a bit stupid and agreeing with you will put them in the same pool. It's not the best thing to do, but you do it also. You pool everyone on QCDN as a democrat while half the member base isn't even in the U.S. A lot of them are from Canada/U.K.

And truthfully no one handled anyone considering I agree and disagree with both of you.

'nuff said.

 

[Thelona]

you say its not political but i can guarantee you 99% of the people who think you shouldn't have choice to keep your organs after death, are gonna fall on one side of the aisle.

 

[JP]

you say its not political but i can guarantee you 99% of the people who think you shouldn't have choice to keep your organs after death, are gonna fall on one side of the aisle.

I feel it's more religious than political. And even then I think it's more of a choice of your own than anything. No matter what side I'm on (while I don't even think it should fucking matter because no matter who the president is I'm hoping he/she does well) and what religion I am, I feel it should be a choice to whether you want to donate or not.

 

[Tomasello]

'nuff said.

I never said anything about democrats... Liberals are left here maybe there right in Canada I don't really have time to throughly review the political landscape of 150 countries. What I'm talking about are the liberals/socialists (yes I understand from various nations but still hypocrites all the same) roaming QCDN trying to inflict there one sided point of view on everyone. (ie I respect your choice as long as its the choice I like).

I feel it's more religious than political.

Everything IS political. Tell me what isn't and I guareentee there will be some political angle to it.

Example: His politics dictate that religious faith is bullshit because only a simpleton would believe in god therefore screw him and take his organs anyway against his wishes. And just to humor you how many organ stealers do you think voted for Obama? Lets count: 1, 2, 3, all of them!

 

[Dancingweapon]

What I'm talking about are the liberals/socialists (yes I understand from various nations but still hypocrites all the same) roaming QCDN trying to inflict there one sided point of view on everyone.

But are you not the one also inflicting your one sided opinion on people? Not only do you do that you tell people your opinion is right. (Don't make me quote you.) The difference between most the QCDN user base say their opinion in a nice way where as you just rub off on people the wrong way.

 

[JP]

I never said anything about democrats... Liberals are left here maybe there right in Canada I don't really have time to throughly review the political landscape of 150 countries. What I'm talking about are the liberals/socialists (yes I understand from various nations but still hypocrites all the same) roaming QCDN trying to inflict there one sided point of view on everyone. (ie I respect your choice as long as its the choice I like).



Everything IS political. Tell me what isn't and I guareentee there will be some political angle to it.

Example: His politics dictate that religious faith is bullshit because only a simpleton would believe in god therefore screw him and take his organs anyway against his wishes. And just to humor you how many organ stealers do you think voted for Obama? Lets count: 1, 2, 3, all of them!

Walking down the street is political?

And is everyone who voted for Obama an organ stealer?


I know you can bring politics into everything someone does. But that does not mean that is the main focus of the actual topic. That's like me saying that EVERYTHING is about penis.

"Is walking down the street about penis?"

Well yeah because without your father inserting his penis into your mother's vagina you wouldn't of been born. And therefore, you wouldn't be walking down the street.

"Well is candy about penis?"

Well duh, because without the candy maker's father inserting his penis into his mother's vagina the candy maker wouldn't of been born. Therefore, he wouldn't of made this candy and you wouldn't be eating it.

Of course you can put just about anything into any situation somehow. But that does not mean it needs to be brought up all the time. Especially when everyone has their own opinion and you can't be right.

 

[bigbroon]

Its this kind of double talk that makes conservatives say liberals are freakin loons, I don't think you could have done a better job at proving tom's point for him.

Respecting someones choice isn't about thinking its right, or about respecting the person that made it, its about respecting their right to make the choice.


If someone believes that they will not go to heaven because their body is not intact that is their belief. you think just because you believe thats all BS, that they shouldn't even have the choice. You don't respect their beliefs, and you don't respect their choice.

Why do you even keep trying to argue it? Just come on out and say you Don't respect a person choice of what to do with their body after their death? You've said flat out that someone shouldn't have the choice, while continuing to say you respect their choice.

Since you're about the 5th person to say this is hypocritical, I feel it necessary to clarify. Right now, you have the option of keeping your organs in your body after you die. I respect this right, because it is a right. I think it would be better if people didn't have this right, but they do. Just because I don't agree with something doens't mean I don't respect people's rights to it. Anyone, right now, has the right to keep their organs, and I do respect it. I have no issue with anyone who does, because that's the way things work. I believe nobody should be allowed to keep them after they die, but I respect the fact that I'm in the minority and the way things work don't coincide with my beliefs. Does that clarify it?

In my opinion, people should have their organs removed after they die. I do, however, respect the rights people have to keeping their own organs right now, as it's illegal to take people's organs without permission. You can take two things I've said and misquote me all you want, and it's partly my fault for not being clear, but I'm not contradicting myself. I don't agree with it, but while it's the way it is, I respect the rights of people to keep their organs after they die. k?

 

[Thelona]

Since you're about the 5th person to say this is hypocritical, I feel it necessary to clarify. Right now, you have the option of keeping your organs in your body after you die. I respect this right, because it is a right. I think it would be better if people didn't have this right, but they do. Just because I don't agree with something doens't mean I don't respect people's rights to it. Anyone, right now, has the right to keep their organs, and I do respect it. I have no issue with anyone who does, because that's the way things work. I believe nobody should be allowed to keep them after they die, but I respect the fact that I'm in the minority and the way things work don't coincide with my beliefs. Does that clarify it?

In my opinion, people should have their organs removed after they die. I do, however, respect the rights people have to keeping their own organs right now, as it's illegal to take people's organs without permission. You can take two things I've said and misquote me all you want, and it's partly my fault for not being clear, but I'm not contradicting myself. I don't agree with it, but while it's the way it is, I respect the rights of people to keep their organs after they die. k?

BB i don't see how you can't see this.

It'd be like saying "I respect a Woman's choice in abortion, but think abortion should be outlawed."

If you think it shouldn't be allowed then you obviously don't respect it.
unless you have a really loose definition of respect.

I Respect a woman's right to abortion not because I agree abortion is alright(and not just because its legal), but because I believe its their right to make the choice. I respect their belief. even if i think its wrong.

You tolerate a persons right to keep their organs after death, you don't respect it.

and I didn't misquote shit BB it was the exact words you wrote quoted by the fuckin quote button.

 

[Thelona]

after thinking about it, this whole thing could just a big misunderstanding over the definition of a "right"


You seem to respect it as their right just because its legal.

Here in America, we have a different idea of where our rights come from. (or at least we used to)

 

[JP]

ffs I understand what he's trying to say.

He's saying he respects that people do not do it because it's not mandatory to do it. He respects that people keep their organs because they have the right to do so. However, he does not approve of that right. It almost sounds like he is contradicting himself, but if you really think about it and think about this without trying to just prove someone wrong, you may understand also.

 

[Keryan]

In order to harvest organs you hve to keep the body alive. I am more of the question of if the people were really dead. Sure you can take a dead persons organ, but you can not use them unless it is the cornea. The organs would be dead, and putting them in a living host would kill the person. This sounds more like they took living people they felt would be dead and harvested. This is why people are afraid of being organ donors. Where is the line for fighting for the Donors life or killing them to keep another alive. Also many die of illnesses, if you have ANY illness they will not take your organs. I know this because my mother offered to be a donor but could not.

Look at the angel of death people......We would have people choosing who will live. Should a druggie keep his liver or one kidney when you can live donor them and save lives? Where does it stop? You may say no it would not, but then people said the same thing about nurses or doctors killing people.

I personally will not be a donor when I die. I would do live donor though. Bone marrow, stuff like that. If you really want to adavance medicine make it so hospitals can gather cord blood that gets tossed. Tons of stem cells there. If parents want to keep it they still have the registries, but allow the hospitals to gather the ones people do not want.