Another Crappy RDM Topic

[Icewolf]

Remember, I never rest in parties

You dont rest? /wrist

 

[Darklion]

You dont rest? /wrist

If a RDM needs to rest he fucked up somewhere...

But then again My Convert is up within 8 mins and I do have 1100K+ mp

 

[Drayah]

You dont rest? /wrist

Thats becouse he does not use up any MP,no really he doesn't.He expects someone else to heal HIM.I wouldnt be surprised if he invited another rdm to cast refresh on him as well.

 

[Neyla]

You dont rest? /wrist

RDMs who have to rest should try another job instead.

 

[Icewolf]

RDMs who have to rest should try another job instead.

I must be missing something, ive been playing this game for a pretty long time...and every rdm I pt with has to rest.

 

[Myrid]

I prefer main healing meleeburns on RDM over WHM. Why?

-I never run out of MP. 3/tic from gear and Sanction, 3/tic from refresh, 3/tic from bard, more if there's a corsair + bard. Not to mention Convert, but the past couple parties I've only needed it like once every half hour instead of once every 10 minutes.

-Fastcast. Cures come in faster, I can re-use cure3 faster, haste cycles are completed in less time.

-Refresh. I can toss the BRD refresh if he's subbing mage, I can refresh any blus/drks in the party (if applicable).

-Debuffs. Gravity does help on nins and thfs, and although I just got it, Dia3 lowers defense more than Dia2. Slow2 and/or Para2 on slept mobs that the party hasn't started on yet if you have time. Assisting BRD with sleeps.

-Nukes. I've saved chains more than once with a well-timed nuke with excess MP.

In my opinion, the above outweighs having Cure5 (rarely need), Regen3 (solved with Cure3), and Shellra4/5 (Shell2 and eh, guess I have to use Cure4 instead of Cure3 maybe twice).

--

To the subject of meleerdm... (/beats a dead horse)

You don't melee. Preferrably ever, but definitely not past qufim worms. Why?

- Elemental staves. The biggest reason really.
---The spells that are 10-15% more effective/accurate with staves: Cure/2/3/4/ga/ga2, Paralyze/2, Slow/2, Silence, every nuke, Gravity, Poison/2, Elemental Debuffs if /blm, Drain and Aspir if /blm or /drk, Sleep/2/ga, Blind/2, Bind, Dispel, Stun if /drk. Oh, and lolbanish, and lolAbsMND.
---Before you get staves, you get wands which boost the potency of half of the above with more int/mnd.

- You'll be hit by melee songs/rolls instead of ballad/evoker's/healer's. So you hit for 15+17 instead of 1+17, but you lose out on double the refresh.

- If you want to do damage, nuke. With the right gear you'll do more damage more quickly with your elemental magic. Don't make a habit out of it (you're no BLM) but it can be useful in a pinch or on MB.

- You feed the monster TP. This doesn't matter so much in a TPburn, but there you're too busy to have time to pull out your sword. In a more standard exp party, more monster TP = more annoyances for every party member, including yourself.

- Meleeing is distracting. Ooh, I just crit for 20! But wait, who needs haste again? Damn... *spends a few seconds checking chatlog, while Silence wears off and the mob starts casting Thundaga3*

- More obvious reasons.. Getting hit by AoE. Not having as great an MP pool if using melee gear. Not being able to switch targets easily if link occurs (sleep). The list goes on and on...

 

[Neyla]

I must be missing something, ive been playing this game for a pretty long time...and every rdm I pt with has to rest.

Like Darklion said, they must be fucking up somewhere. That's not to say there aren't occassions or fights where RDMs won't have to rest, but it shouldn't be all that common.

 

[Kerowynn]

Like Darklion said, they must be fucking up somewhere. That's not to say there aren't occassions or fights where RDMs won't have to rest, but it shouldn't be all that common.

I hope that your referring to merit parties. >.> Maybe I'm a crappy rdm but I do have to rest sometimes in xp party. Of course I main heal with a paladin tank.

 

[Neyla]

Nah, I'm referring to pre-merit parties as well. Main healing a PLD makes sense though.

 

[Myrid]

Yeah generally before merits you will have to rest.. at least when there's no other refresher.

If you ever have nothing to do and aren't within ~100mp of full, sit down.

 

[ds083roadkill]

uhh, if your standing around and havnt casted a spell in 20 seconds, and you have not rested, there's something wrong with you.

just because you have fast mp regen, if you have the capactity to hold 25 mp (75rdm with at least errant, more if you are smart), and everything your job entails is active, why wouldnt you rest? hell, even if you have to put back in your MP gear for convert... thats free MP.

 

[Kagemusha]

Trait which allows rdm to melee? Fast Cast.

You. In my sig.

 

[Mishaela]

Oliveman, it's not so much the way you play that's under attack, it's the fact that your way of playing absolutely lacks teamwork (rather, is a detriment to the party) - if all you're doing is harming your party's progress then it defeats the purpose of teamwork/partying altogether.

- Elemental staves. The biggest reason really.
---The spells that are 10-15% more effective/accurate with staves: Cure/2/3/4/ga/ga2, Paralyze/2, Slow/2, Silence, every nuke, Gravity, Poison/2, Elemental Debuffs if /blm, Drain and Aspir if /blm or /drk, Sleep/2/ga, Blind/2, Bind, Dispel, Stun if /drk. Oh, and lolbanish, and lolAbsMND.

WHM can use staves to enfeeb too =P Just, it's a total waste of MP in cannons since the mobs dead in ~30s anyways. Unless you're Dia'ing or silencing BLM/NIN Mamool Ja, I personally don't see much of a point. (Though Troll cannons are a different story, yuck)




The whole "not needing to rest" thing seems to come from people who have perfect parties that never link or have something go wrong...which is fine and all, and especially the best choice in cannons where any downtimes = bad.

However, I've tried, quite a few times...but in all my XP parties I've always hadto main/backup heal along with the enfeebling/buffing duties and such, and even when doing everything in my power to not-nuke, I still wind up occasionally having to take a kneel for a bit. Why? Because if I don't, yes, I run out of MP before Convert is back up. And if I don't kneel, it risks people dying because I don't have the MP to cover cures, links, and possible mob WSes getting in a good hit (dropped bombs on a 90% goblin = ow). Is that seriously the "flawless RDM" thing to do, do purposely hold back on MP, potentially screwing over the party? Maybe I should just stay retired if that's the wrong thing to do.

 

[Neyla]

I generally did have a good parties where everything worked out smoothly, but to say people have to hold back to keep their MP up at all times is complete bullshit. I always did all the enfeebles, Hasted those who needed it, backup cured, handled links with no trouble whatsoever and rarely had to rest.

 

[Mishaela]

I generally did have a good parties where everything worked out smoothly, but to say people have to hold back to keep their MP up at all times is complete bullshit. I always did all the enfeebles, Hasted those who needed it, backup cured, handled links with no trouble whatsoever and rarely had to rest.

Did you generally sub BLM for nukes/conserve MP or WHM for better healing access? I tend to sub WHM but I really just can't seem to keep up MP in the ways all RDMs are saying they can. I'd like to try the job again eventually but I'd rather not be lumped in with the RDMs who are "doing it wrong", y'know? =\

 

[hellstorm]

Hits at 0 damage don't give you tp either for your awesome 200 dmg weaponskill. Saving TP means you're not ele-stave switching for debuffs/nukes/cures, and also that you're not hitting for 0. If your hits hit for anything MORE then 0 dmg, it gives the mob MORE tp then it gives you. There's so many reasons not to melee in any circumstance besides soloing.
If a rdm ever saved tp for a 300% spirits within while exping, I'd probably cry...You do realize nq staves are 10-20k each right? The effects of even NQ stave switching makes a much bigger difference then your 1+17dmg enspell hit ever will.

actually according you rdm dont need enfeb so why would they need staffs. saddly have agree with jamal about spiritwithen saving up 300tp to do what 4-500 dmg tops hardly worth it.

 

[hellstorm]

Well i dont post on here often,but after reading olivemans post,i thought i would.Ive only been in a party with him once,and i know everyone has bad days,but he was worse than bad.we was doing promyvion vahzl and he started to melee,and we had a few near deaths,becouse he would not heal or refresh anyone.In fact it got so bad that i was healing him while he sat on his full mp pool.

He was asked many times if he could help heal and refresh,but he said that he was good at melee and had never had any complaints.(I find this hard to belive after what i saw).But any ways we finally get to fighting the single NM's and he was asked,no told to help heal and refresh.And did he?like fuck did he,we had a few deaths becouse he would not heal,when he died he had full MP.he said he was about to heal!wtf if he did what he was asked to do he and the tank would not have died.

Well we finally get to fighting all three bosses and we had to do it twice becouse of the alliance.the group i was in won on the 2nd attempt,his group didnt win,apparently his was playing at melee again.eventually he got kicked and i went in with the other group and we got the win.

Now i dont mind him playing at being melee.Yes an rdm can melee,if they have the right gear ect.But oliveman didnt and just sucked as a RDM.As i myself am an rdm i know what is involved in playing rdm.I may not be the best rdm out there,but after seeing oliveman,i know im not the worst.

Nuff said.

see people like oliver the reason rdm got such bad name if you going to melee plz atleast do your main job first we are a refresher and enfebler before all else

 

[Charcoip]

Woah Neya got flamed? Havent really looked at this thread til now. Don't know how she plays as a player but shes a cool person overall, anyways...

Most RDMs don't know how to play theyre job, its a sad fact. Ive had maybe 2 good rdms ever as whm, didnt pay as much attention to RDM gimpness when I played on smn. There are good RDMs out there but they are hard to find, some RDMs think that as a support job Refresh is enough. I rarely ever see RDMs enfeebling anymore.

actually one party I had on Colibris the RDM sat there and spammed Stone III + Drain on Colibris...just giving them more HP really.

 

[hellstorm]

Did you generally sub BLM for nukes/conserve MP or WHM for better healing access? I tend to sub WHM but I really just can't seem to keep up MP in the ways all RDMs are saying they can. I'd like to try the job again eventually but I'd rather not be lumped in with the RDMs who are "doing it wrong", y'know? =\

I tend sub both depending on party setup and mobs that we are fighting. The key is to manage your mp and know your limits. If you are the only refresher and main healer it tend get alittle hard. Another problem is if tank not able keep hate on dd and the dd become a punching bag. Though in most party you should not have much problems if you pop a marron glace and have a decent mp pool.

 

[hellstorm]

Breaking it down further, christ:
Goal #1 -- Keep chain alive. Gravity isn't going to lower the evasion of a mob that drastically that will make up for ANOTHER melee in the party. Gravity has a high recast time, if you're killing efficiently you're not gonna have it ready for consecutive MNK/NIN and THF type mobs...
Goal #2 -- Killing mobs ASAP. To get max exp/hour, not only do you have to keep the chain alive, you also have to kill the mobs ASAP. With puks you could use your pt and kill mobs very quickly. With higher hp mamools, Gravity and Dia 3 is NOT going to make up for another 800+ points of damage per fight (assuming that the 4th melee is even a piss poor one).

PT kills mob faster = More EXP per hour AND faster repops.

A couple of questions (you can lie on the answers, I'm sure you will):

In the North Mamool Camp, how far to the south do you go before you have to turn around because mobs have repopped in the small path to the north?

Also in this camp, when you return from killing the 3 Mamools + 2 puks that appear on the path and the small opening near the zone, how many mobs are up in the southern opening?

In response to the shadows issue, yes they will take damage. Its a TP-Burn party, so how could anyone be a "Careless Warrior" or an "Over-zealous" MNK. Besides WSing with 500hp left and no shadows, I have no idea how you could be careless in a TP-burn.
Again, you're just arguing to argue, and not reading my entire posts. RDM 'CAN' make it work, but WHM is more efficient because of what I said.

Freak accidents like too many links DO NOT HAPPEN after the first pull if you're killing fast enough. You're admitting how slow you kill if you are justifying using another mage JUST incase it happens. If it is happening, then gtfo of the North camp, and go party in mire with the rest of the people that shouldn't be wasting that camp.

hmm lets see first off we don't run around we stand at part where the path get narrow. thinking.. mage normally don't pay to much attention in to what the brd brings in. Lets see there the 3-4 puks>1thf mob> 1 bst mob> 1blm> 2 whm> 2 wyverns> 1-2 ninja and 1 drg mob think that was the list of mobs killed last time was there. If the puks or drg poped and brd was out I could sleep it. Also brd does not have worry about the mages much and if the brd get into trouble sleeping mob im the lend a hand. Tend to enfeb the wyverns and the thf mob because those are the only one that can make problems and dispel and silence the whm and blm mobs.
As for the careless warrior prob say lazy wars that dont like cast shadows and mnks that dont sub nin that tend to pull much hate because they all out.