Any GLBT players out there?
- Thread starter Halifirien
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Tyrion, Please don't lower the IQ level of this debate with images like that. I'm not pro-christain at all but respect anyone with a valid/researched opinion and most of the time can agree to disagree.
That image does absolutely nothing but put this argument in the kiddie pool :x
That image does absolutely nothing but put this argument in the kiddie pool :x
Wow... how tasteless.
hmm, i had no idea my simple question would lead to a religion debate.^^; anyway, back to talking about gays. I think that most ppl that hate homosexuals dont hate them because of religion but becasue its disgusting in their eyes. Yes i know, its nobodies bussiness what u do at home right? Wrong. In my opinion what defines a country is not its goverment, its power or army, but its ppl. PPl represent a country, which in turns means everyone in that country is a representitive for what it stands for, be it the majority or the minority. For example, the American dream is represented by a wealthy well to do heterosexual white man. But the poor immigrant represent america too. Everyone does, and that includes the other side of the population: the criminals, the rapist, the murders. They represent America too. Other countries that hate America do so because they believe that Homosexuality is allowed to run rampted (sp?) They see America as a country where even the sickest pervert can live to be rich and wealthy. That is wrong. Good ppl represent what America stands for, but also the criminals represent it too. Im not saying that Homosexuality is bad, im just stating that not many pppl want America to be a :gay haven".
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As far as such things go i tend to be existentialist, i dont agree with religion but its your bag, its beyond something that can be rationalized so there is no point in arguing faith, just how it affects others......which tends to be negatively alot of times. I think The Bible and christianity has some decent ideas but there are some major flaws so i dont take that leap of faith. For instance, The Bible has been used a tool of oppression not only in obvious ways such as the inquisition but like a few major religions that were berthed in the middle east, it is a tool of patriarchy.Women are objectified (not in the obvious 'look at that hot chick' coors commercials) and marginalized left and right in the bible. I have to go to work now, i dont doubt or belittle your faith, though i am against belitling others with it.
hmmm....I wasn't aware that America was a "Gay Haven" Chpal. I'm Canadian myself and there are many places in NA where I could feel comfortable holding another man's hand if I wanted to. I was in Montreal about a month ago and it was a wonderful and liberating experience. They have a gay village where about 80 of the establishments and people are GLBT...it was great. Now I'm not saying that it's necessarily a good idea to e segregated in such a way, but it's nice to know there are places in the world where I can truly be myelf without fear of getting the shit kicked out of me. Also, i'm not sure how to take your "even the sickest pervert can live to be rich and wealthy" comment. Are you grouping gay men/women (not "gays" hehe) into that "pervert" group? I also think there are much more pressing and relavent reasons for countries to hate america than "Homosexuality is allowed to ramp[ant]" Cpal, but that is an entirely different can of worms.
Kel, im using the NKJ which imo is the most accurate translation. Plz dont go assuming things about me that arent true.
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That is not the most accurate translation
The most accurate I believe is the 1611 King James.
The most accurate I believe is the 1611 King James.
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Psu..Psu..youre my boy. But youre not going to convince all these individuals to believe in what you believe in. Just follow what Jesus said and just spread the gospel. This blabbering about Christian I faith and homosexuality has been brought up by many theologians for ages. Its never going to end. Can a gay, lesbian, transgendered, and bisexual person go to heaven? I believe so based on what Jesus said. Not what the old testament says.
chpal said:
That always bothered me. If it's illegal because it's disgusting, why isn't it illegal for fat people, ugly people, and old people to have sex too?
(BTW, I fit into two of those categories.
)
Tyrion said:chpal said:
That always bothered me. If it's illegal because it's disgusting, why isn't it illegal for fat people, ugly people, and old people to have sex too?
(BTW, I fit into two of those categories.
no, but how about necrophilia? thats illegal and disgusting. So is bestiality and child pornography. I mean some ppl, including myself, can stand and tolerate men to men relantionship. I think its sweet and I have read gravitation (gay anime) but what I dont like and find, (this is entirely MY opinion and is not meant to be offensive to anyone) sort of disgustiong is the actual sexually Homosexual act. I dont mind them marrying or adopting kids, I just hate thinking about what they do ><
Porum said:
"Gay haven" as in there are more freedoms for gay men/women (sorry about that^^ i was typing fast ;
here than in most countries. Expecially the conservative ons, like Mexico. The comment I meant about even the sickest pervert can grow to be rich and wealthy" i refferd to the child offenders and rapist who have lived normal lives till their perversions were found out. No i did not group gay men/women in that group.
chpal said:Tyrion said:chpal said:
That always bothered me. If it's illegal because it's disgusting, why isn't it illegal for fat people, ugly people, and old people to have sex too?
(BTW, I fit into two of those categories.
no, but how about necrophilia? thats illegal and disgusting. So is bestiality and child pornography.
Yes, but you're ignoring the idea of consent. Adults can consent to such acts. Children, animals, and the dead cannot.
chpal said:
Then don't think about it.
well, not entirily true actually. Some ppl that used to paricipate in Necrophilia sometimes sing a will stating that who they ellected can do "whatever" to the body, thus granting consent. About the child pornography, you and I both know that now adays its kind of hard to find a 20 year old virgin >< Kids are having intercourse earlier and earlier. In 8th grade i remembered that about 6 girls in my class had "done it". Child pornography is sick and perverted but it does involve some consent from the child. I know that in places like asia and europe there is a lot of chilc abuse and kidnapping, but, considering the downfall of American youth now a days (im 17 so i belong to that category) i'm not surprised if most children are doing that willingly. Im not even goingt to comment on beastlity because u are right. There is no way the animals ahve any say in what is happening.
Thanks for clearing up your stand Chpal, I just wasn't sure on som of the details. I agree with Tyrion in that if it bothers you, don't think about it. It does effect you directly so no worries^^ I'm curious, do you also have a problem with a man and women engaging in acts of sodomy? It's pretty common place now I think and very few poeple seem to have any moral qualms about it...besides, like, "That would hurt! *giggle gigglie*". Sex has moved far from the typical "missionary" style into much more...inventive styles. There are people who take it to extremes like everything in this world, but again, the majority belong to the "vanilla" and not the "kink". Anyways, I'm totally rambling....
chpal said:
I still think they could be prosecuted under "Desecration of a corpse." BTW, I don't want to know how you got that information.
chpal said:
Dictionary.com said:
The note is part of the Dictionary.com entry too, I didn't add that, although I did underline the relevant part.
chpal said:
I usually am right. ^_^
As for this...
Porum said:
And we all know what the real problem is with the people who can't stop thinking about it... :lol:
WOW! What an interesting thread. To answer the original question (yeah, six pages ago -- so I'm late to the party)... sure there are other GLBT on Quetzalcoatl. I'm gay.
I see this sort of turning into a religious / political debate. That's unfortunate because it shouldn't be one. I see some classic debate patterns such as discussing something OTHER than homosexuality and then trying to rationalize that it's the same thing. It's not.
That's sort of like me trying to argue that heterosexuality must be wrong because some heterosexuals molest children. It's a tangent to a completely unrelated topic.
I also notice the religious injection as well. I've been round on round on this topic in the past. Religious texts are selected and translated the way they are by people who have an agenda. This isn't *just* true of religion, it's true of nearly everything. Scientific history of discoveries quite often gives credit NOT to the person who thought of the idea or made the discover, but by some person who was more politically powerful or influential. History books are always written by the victors, etc. Though there may or may not be God - I'm not to say - but there's very little evidence of it, and or what that God might have had to say on the topic. But the notion that history is loaded with people who would manage to take any idea -- no matter how pure -- and find a way to co-opt it for their own purpose is something that is known all too well. We do know a thing or two about human nature. Turns out in the christian world that there's only ONE passage in the entire bible that says anything about homosexuality at all -- that's in leviticus, and it says NOTHING about Lesbians (it's clear that it only picks on the men). But surprisingly it seems to not be condemning homosexuality for the reasons that most people presume -- and the same code also condemns (with equal gravity) things that pretty much every person does and yet thinks nothing of it.
Rather than talk about it, I'll just post this. It's an "Open Letter to Dr. Laura" and I was rolling on the floor laughing when I read it the first time.
That about sums it up.
Regards,
Tim
I see this sort of turning into a religious / political debate. That's unfortunate because it shouldn't be one. I see some classic debate patterns such as discussing something OTHER than homosexuality and then trying to rationalize that it's the same thing. It's not.
That's sort of like me trying to argue that heterosexuality must be wrong because some heterosexuals molest children. It's a tangent to a completely unrelated topic.
I also notice the religious injection as well. I've been round on round on this topic in the past. Religious texts are selected and translated the way they are by people who have an agenda. This isn't *just* true of religion, it's true of nearly everything. Scientific history of discoveries quite often gives credit NOT to the person who thought of the idea or made the discover, but by some person who was more politically powerful or influential. History books are always written by the victors, etc. Though there may or may not be God - I'm not to say - but there's very little evidence of it, and or what that God might have had to say on the topic. But the notion that history is loaded with people who would manage to take any idea -- no matter how pure -- and find a way to co-opt it for their own purpose is something that is known all too well. We do know a thing or two about human nature. Turns out in the christian world that there's only ONE passage in the entire bible that says anything about homosexuality at all -- that's in leviticus, and it says NOTHING about Lesbians (it's clear that it only picks on the men). But surprisingly it seems to not be condemning homosexuality for the reasons that most people presume -- and the same code also condemns (with equal gravity) things that pretty much every person does and yet thinks nothing of it.
Rather than talk about it, I'll just post this. It's an "Open Letter to Dr. Laura" and I was rolling on the floor laughing when I read it the first time.
That about sums it up.
Regards,
Tim