Are you racist for abbreviating words?

[bigbroon]

I'm looking for responses to a controversial question: are abbreviations like Jap offensive?

The question stems from a discussion in a flame which was recently locked before I got the chance to respond to someone with a differing opinion to mine.

From certain people's points of view, words like "Jap" (shortened from Japanese) are racist and/or offensive because they "became derogatory" after a certain event in history. Does this not mean that no nationality should be shortened to avoid being racist?

For example, it's a more commonly used phrase on my side of the world than the USA, I'd imagine, but people have been charged and sentenced in court for calling Pakistani people "Paki's". They meant it in a derogatory way, but would the same have happened if someone had called me a "Scot" because I'm Scottish? The same goes for Jap/Japanese, is it a case of certain nationalities being abbreviated indicates racism, whereas others don't? I'm very interested to hear everyone's views on this subject, as there seem to be some rather large inconsistencies in the arguments of people who deem certain abbreviations racist.

 

[Morcheeba]

It's derogatory, and like I said to Twisted when used in a manner against ones race YES it is racist.

Jap, Newfie, Pork(porkchop) it's all derogatory.. same with Paki. One could argue 'wop' would be the equivalent for Italians but not in this case. In the case of 'Scot' I rarely hear people use the term 'Scot' as much as I hear 'Scotch' which is a derogatory version. My family hated being called Scotch and I now am very much the same way. I'm more inclined to say Celts.

I do not believe they are official abbreviations.

 

[Halifirien]

Context is important. As you pointed out, "Jap" went downhill in terms of usage after WWII. That doesn't mean it's automatically racist to shorten a name every time. "Scot" isn't offensive, but saying "Scotch" when you mean "Scot" can be.

 

[Valandil]

Intent is everything. However, many of the "abbreviated" terms originated from a derogatory connotation; thus, they will always have a tacit slur attached to them. However, not all are derogatory, and some that were have become much more terms of endearment (i.e. Brits-Yanks).

 

[bigbroon]

It's derogatory, and like I said to Twisted when used in a manner against ones race YES it is racist.

Jap, Newfie, Pork(porkchop) it's all derogatory.. same with Paki. One could argue 'wop' would be the equivalent for Italians but not in this case. In the case of 'Scot' I rarely hear people use the term 'Scot' as much as I hear 'Scotch' which is a derogatory version. My family hated being called Scotch and I now am very much the same way. I'm more inclined to say Celts.

I do not believe they are official abbreviations.

I understand what you're saying, but the fact you hear Scotch (which would make me laugh at the ignorance of confusing a nationality and whiskey) more than Scot is probably more to do with where you are in the world. For example, there are "Young Scot Cards" in this country, a sort of ID for young people. I'm willing to bet the japanese don't have a similar "Young Jap Card", lol.

I'd say someone calling a Japanese person a "Jap" to their face, or directed at the person, was "meant" to be insulting, but I still don't see how it is insluting. Afterall, it is the same word minus "anese" at the end of it. The Scot point works for other nationalities, like people from Thailand being called "Thai".

If a Japanese person were insulted by someone calling them a "Jap", I could understand it due to the use of Jap as a derogatory term during WWII, but that pretty much only works for them, and to me it's still a stretch.

 

[Halifirien]

The basic lesson I would take away from the experience is to just stop using the term "Jap" instead of trying to work out all the whys and wherefores that would allow me to keep using it out of a sense of entitlement and thus insult a whole new generation.

Of course, that results in language police accusing me of being a politically correct sellout who coddles oversensitive types who should get over themselves.

 

[Xalioniaf]

Personally, I used "Jap" a lot in my younger days. Not as a derogatory slur, but instead among friends and the like. I was the "Mex", he was the "Jap", and we had a host of other shorthand names to refer to each other in our circle of friends.
So it took my by surprise when I used the word in a literature class in middle school and got the verbal beatdown of a lifetime from both my teacher and the principal. It was pretty confusing learning that a word I'd used all of my young life was being compared to shouting "Nig+er" in an NAACP meeting.
In retrospect, I don't even think Tommy was Japanese. He was of some east Asian descent though, and he didn't protest to us calling him Japanese.

 

[Zaltana]

depends on how thin the person's skin is.

 

[Dancingweapon]

The way I see it, if enough people find something offensive I won't really use the term. Unless I know they are comfortable with it and won't screw face me for a month after.

 

[Sneakypants]

If there's a question in regards to something being offensive, what's one good reason for choosing the offensive (even potentially) route, IF you give a crap to begin with?

If you don't give a crap, then you only invite others to not give a crap about you. So either you're the dipshit nobody cares about, or you've made a very conscious decision to be, or not to be an offensive racist. Abbreviations aren't really better except in the instance where an individual justifies usage to themselves. Then it's better in their mind. Whoopie.

 

[Mirewen]

Jap, Newfie, Pork(porkchop) it's all derogatory.. same with Paki.

You consider Newfie derogatory?... I'm sorry sweety, that made me lol hard. No one over here considers that an insult at all. I say Newfie instead of New Found Lander, it's way shorter.

 

[Morcheeba]

You consider Newfie derogatory?... I'm sorry sweety, that made me lol hard. No one over here considers that an insult at all. I say Newfie instead of New Found Lander, it's way shorter.

I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a derogatory term for a Newfoundlander. Whether or not they get insulted when called it is besides the point.

Much like Hali said, some are insulting some more acceptable. Newfie was used for much the same reason, to dumb down and take a stab at the people. I call the bf my Newfie all the time, mind you I am technically a Newfie myself, I've been screeched in. Keeping in mind a huge percentage of Newfoundlanders are extremely easy going people and laugh at themselves quite often, they don't insult easy.

And it is very much the context in which the term is used, tone of voice etc.

If there's a question in regards to something being offensive, what's one good reason for choosing the offensive (even potentially) route, IF you give a crap to begin with?

This is generally how I feel about it, if there's potential to insult using the term, avoid being a jackass and using it, unless you enjoy being a jackass and in the case I hope someone fattens your lips for you =)

 

[Hexx]

I dunno, I understand why it is deemed racist, especially by JP's (I call them that instead of Jap, more on that later) who had to suffer through that during and after WWII.

Prime example, a few years ago when I first started the game, I was forming a party with some JPs, and I was mentioning to the other american player (newer than myself) to use the auto translate function "because they are jap", now I did not mean it in a racist or offensive way, but they took offense to it immediately, and called a GM on me. I explained to the GM that I did not mean it in a racist way, but due to their sensitivities, it would be best to avoid using said term. From that day forth I refer to them as JP's to prevent any sort of confusion.

 

[Mirewen]

I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a derogatory term for a Newfoundlander. Whether or not they get insulted when called it is besides the point.

The only time I've ever known a Newfie to get upset is when someone tosses out a "Newfie joke" which are usually pretty stupid anyway. Regardless, New Found Lander is not a race, you can move away from New Found Land, its a Province. Likening that to "Jap" or "N**ger" on the insult scale is ludicrous and insulting, I'm pretty sure Newfies have not undergone slavery or 'racial' profiling.

 

[Morcheeba]

I've never ever heard of Newfie being derogatory. So I really don't get why you think it is.

It was explained to me when I was much younger. Maybe just Newf, either way my family are Newfies on my bf's side and the term is derogatory. Brad just said the same thing I did previously, they're not like most other people. He just threw in there, 'Newfoundlander - Newfie, Pakistanian - Paki' both derogatory, just that Newfies do not insult and in general as a people are not nearly as uptight as everyone else.

I know you wouldn't find it derogatory and again I think it's because they do not get insulted by it, still doesn't change the fact that it is. I was just raised to understand that it derives from an insult to the people of Newfoundland in general.

Newfoundlanders are not a race, but they are certainly a 'people', they differ from everyone else significantly in Canada. Nova Scotian, Islander - people from PEI. Newfoundlanders keep their name where ever they move, it doesn't change, they'd be the first to say they're Newfies though, again it's because they do not find it insulting. However I don't believe that because they do not find it insulting it doesn't have a negative orientation.

As far as racial profiling goes, how can you honestly say they haven't? 'Stupid Newfie' etc. They have totally been profiled for years and years. As a people, even though they are not a race of their own they are categorized and profiled as a certain type of people.

Footnote - my spellcheck gave me 'Scotchman' as a possible correction....

 

[Mirewen]

So if someone tosses a blonde joke at me, I can get pissed at them for being derogatory about my hair colour? Because... you know, apparently I'm supposed to be stupid because of that, so I'm no different than a Newfie right?

I'll say it again, they are not a RACE. So they cannot be RACIALLY profiled. Provincially profiled? Fine if you want to call it that. And if you think being called a stupid Newfie (or dumb blonde) is as insulting as being called a n**ger, then... you need to prioritize that.

 

[Morcheeba]

So if someone tosses a blonde joke at me, I can get pissed at them for being derogatory about my hair colour? Because... you know, apparently I'm supposed to be stupid because of that, so I'm no different than a Newfie right?

I'll say it again, they are not a RACE. So they cannot be RACIALLY profiled. Provincially profiled? Fine if you want to call it that. And if you think being called a stupid Newfie (or dumb blonde) is as insulting as being called a n**ger, then... you need to prioritize that.

Yeah calling someone a Blonde in a specific context is definitely derogatory, and yeah calling someone a Newfie is as well, it may not be comparably as serious an insult, but that's depending on WHOM you insult by saying it. Like I said they're not easily insulted, they (for the most part) are a very peaceful and outgoing/easy going people.

They ARE a people, racially/provincially profiled, idc what you call it, it doesn't erase the fact that they ARE and continue to be profiled as a PEOPLE. >.> It's the way it is. I have grown up around Newfies, like I said I call mine my Newfie. Much like Black people calling each other N**gers, THEY can we can't. It's a bunch of bullshit but it is the way it is. Main difference being a black person you don't know personally would likely flip out on your ass for calling them a n**gers where as a Newfie will just say 'What 'er at byi', much more easy going.

The question is if we think the abbreviations are racist, and imo they are. Just depends who you're saying it to as to whether they get insulted by it or not.

In another thread a couple days ago I asked where my 'Brown' friend was. He knew I was talking about him but didn't insult from it, at least he laughed when we talked, that doesn't mean it wasn't really wrong for me saying it, and there's no way I would EVER say that towards another Brown person I didn't know because it's racial.. it's rude and wrong.

 

[Grandphoenix]

yet GAIJIN's acceptable from the super-xenophobic people? I'm not racist against Japanese at all and actually admire the culture/country just not to the point of weeaboo fanaticism.

 

[Mirewen]

Yeah calling someone a Blonde in a specific context is definitely derogatory, and yeah calling someone a Newfie is as well, it may not be comparably as serious an insult, but that's depending on WHOM you insult by saying it. Like I said they're not easily insulted, they (for the most part) are a very peaceful and outgoing/easy going people.

They ARE a people, racially/provincially profiled, idc what you call it, it doesn't erase the fact that they ARE and continue to be profiled as a PEOPLE. >.> It's the way it is. I have grown up around Newfies, like I said I call mine my Newfie. Much like Black people calling each other N**gers, THEY can we can't. It's a bunch of bullshit but it is the way it is. Main difference being a black person you don't know personally would likely flip out on your ass for calling them a n**gers where as a Newfie will just say 'What 'er at byi', much more easy going.

The question is if we think the abbreviations are racist, and imo they are. Just depends who you're saying it to as to whether they get insulted by it or not.

In another thread a couple days ago I asked where my 'Brown' friend was. He knew I was talking about him but didn't insult from it, at least he laughed when we talked, that doesn't mean it wasn't really wrong for me saying it, and there's no way I would EVER say that towards another Brown person I didn't know because it's racial.. it's rude and wrong.

Hate to break it to you, but everyone is profiled then if given your terms.

Germans, Italians, Irish, Scottish, Indians, Mexicans, Canadians, Chinese, etc.

Just because someone doesn't have a shortened term for what they are racially/socially etc. doesn't mean that they aren't profiled.

You think it's accepted that Irish are always referred to as drunks? Or that Welsh are called "sheep fuckers" or cheap? Do I bitch and moan?

Shit, people don't even know where Wales is, they think it's in England, THAT I find insulting, but rather than freak out at them, I inform them where it is.

Some abbreviations are just abbreviated because... they're shorter. Someone asked me where one of my girlfriends is from because of her "cool accent". I said, "oh, she's a Newfie". Did she get upset? No. Was it because she's my friend? No. If I had said it regarding someone who wasn't my friend is it all of the sudden derogatory? No.

You say it is context. That is the answer.

 

[bigbroon]

I thought of another one, and it's culinary! "Thai" flavoured chicken, crisps (chips), etc. I understand all the points people are making, however, and although I have a different opinion to some, I appreciate people registering their opinions; I wanted to know how other people felt about this, so thanks for responding