Atheism

[Bajaratt]

Well, apparently excailbr is ducking the thread now. It's been over a day and he has yet to show my double standard. It's fun when idiots get owned and run and hide.

 

[K. Ishitar]

its more of this way Uzor He created you acknowledgement and submittance shows respect if you cant respect and follow their rules someone why let them into your home?

 

[Uzor]

its more of this way Uzor He created you acknowledgement and submittance shows respect if you cant respect and follow their rules someone why let them into your home?

That still doesn't answer more then half the question. What about the other religions? What's saying christianity is the only true religion?

Basically, you chose one religion. Either christianity, islam, judism (sp?), buddism, hinduism, or one of the countless other religions. Which means there's 1/5th chance that you chose the correct religion if you only chose of the largest ones. Which means there's 4/5 chance that you chose wrong and will be forever damned in hell because of it.

That's not taking in to consideration that there's several other religions aswell. Like, say, FSM, Japanese religion, various african religions etc.

By chosing a religion, you make a promise that you will also dedicate your life to the religion, and live according to its rules.

However, what are thsoe rules? You can be a christian by title and still not believe in the religion, like me. Chosing a religion is also a big gamble, since if you chose the wrong one you'll be damned do hell for believing in the wrong god. So wouldn't the safest bet be to not believe in any god, and have a thus have a chance of still getting in to heaven since you atleast didn't believe in the wrong one?

Besides, what's to say any of the religions currently on earth is the real one? For all we know, the only true religion dieded out thousand of years ago. Or perhaps there isn't a religion at all.

If there truely is an holy being controlling the universe, shouldn't we have more proof that this being exists, and shouldn't we have more signs? To my knowledge, the last real sign of god were several hundreds of years ago. But as we all know, stories tend to change with every peopel that tell it. As an example, if someone told you that a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend saw an alien, would you believe it? Its the very same with the bible. The friend of a friend of a friend of a friend.... of a friend lived when Jesus lived, and he said that...

See my point? The bible is several hundreds of years old. We have no way of telling that the events told in it are real. At the same time we can't disprove it, as none of us were alive, which is why all religions still exist. For all we know, christianity was one of the first fictional books. It contains everything a good book requires, such as an antagonist, a protagonist, a hero, and a good story.

There's no real proof that anything in the bible exists, but there is proof of the evolution theory. While yes, both are theories, I'd prefer to believe in something that have scientific proofs other then in a book that might, for all we know, might be one of the first novels.

And no, just to throw it in first. I'm not trying to convert you, or insult you. I love religion, I think its an extremely interresting and important topic. I'm also rather tollerant towards people with other religions. I just want to see what their views on the world etc. are I've had the very same discussion with muslims, christians, jews and jehovas witnesses. I'm yet to find a hindu or buddhist though =(

 

[K. Ishitar]

you should type more when you're drunk Uzor

your writing becomes more interesting LMAO(seriously)

I know you're not trying to bash me and conversely I am not. I'll try to answer those questions the best I can but as we both know some of those questions yes we can not physically prove.

I am Muslim I inferred it awhile back but it was a bit too subtle. I cannot speak for other religions I can tell you our beliefs/rules/doctrines in accordance to answering your question, however I dont quite know enough aobut the others to vouch or speak for them and some on the list are discredited in Islam(to be honest)

Unfortunately I'm only 18 experience is the greatest and harshest teacher I've only been taught so much bud=/

but I'll answer your post later kinda typing an scholarship essay atm and waiting for the 1hr special on naruto to dl ^_^;

 

[Uzor]

well, I'm 19 xD

And I sobered up a bit ~.~ my damn cousin drank half the alcohol, so I had to share the rest with the other people ~.~

Anyway, turning the wheel around to refer more to islam, even though islam, judaism and christianity belong to the same "branch" --->

There is one key difference that I never really understood that well that you maybe can explain.

From my understanding of Islam, Allah is the "god". However:


[FONT=arial,helvetica]"The messenger of Allah said: "Islam is to testify that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, to perform the prayers, to pay the zakat, to fast in Ramadhan, and to make the pilgrimage to the House if you are able to do so." He said: " You have spoken rightly", Jebreel (Gabriel) from Number 2 of "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths."[/FONT]
which to me seem to point towards there being no God in Islam. Which, right there, contradicts itself with the rest of the koran. Islam seem to be based towards justice to a great extent, with an "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" mentality.

To be completely honest, I consider Islam itself as a slightly better religion then Christianity. However, Islam's image is destroyed by the extrimists and the media, since all the media really bothers to provide us with is the bad parts. While I don't agree with how Islam have turned out to be, christianity is no better then Islam. Muslims tend to take the Koran more literal then christians take the bible though. The bible, too, talk about the need to cover up women to not show themselves. Christians tend to ignore that bit though.

In Islam, sex is considered the gift from Allah. Premaritial sex is not allowed for this reason, as Allah wants us to save ourselves for the person we love, and not take one of his greatest gifts for granted and overuse it. Share it with the person we love.

Either way, in Islam, one of the key differences is death. In the bible, they talk about people instantly getting judged. In the Koran, people don't get judged untill judgement day, where the great one-eyed beast will once again walk the earth. At which point, the person whom a lot of Islams believe to be the whom the christians refer to as Jesus, will slay the beast. At this point, Allah will speak to all of the humans and pass down their judgement, and the muslims will get everything they lacked while alive.

However, as for the rest of the moral questions etc, christianity and islam are really rather similar.

If you compare all religions, most of the modern apocalyptic writings are really very similar.

Cristianity:

1. A general resurrection of the dead
2. A final judgement
3. Satan's supporters will be annihilated
4. God's supporters will enter a time of happiness and peace

The new testament talk about Jesus return and placing all of his enemies under his feet, about the world's destruction, how all the believers will rise to the sky to meet him, and how the "man of lawliness" (God) will reveal himself and the "wicked" will be annihilated.

Revelation 13:11-18]
[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

[/FONT]
The quote talks about the great beast, which I will come back to in the Islam version. The beast is often refered to as "Antichrist".

Islam:

According to Islam, God gave humans a mind of their own. Thus, he can't controll people. So if they kill someone, that's not something he can help. He want everyone to be as happy as possible, which is why alcohol is not allowed as it disturbs humans minds and makes them not able to think clearly.

Also, its worse to live with people you know sin without telling anyone about it, then to sin yourself. In other words, the friend of the sinner will get punnished before the sinner himself. There is a story within Islam about a homosexual group called "Clan of Loth", which were a very large and mighty clan, who would kidnap men from other clans and raped them, and as a punishment, God is said to have created a large earthquake and turned the whole ground upside-down.

One way to lose your sins is if you lose something of great value. Like a mom losing ther newly born baby.

This goes for both religions. If God forgive everyone of their sins, who will then go to hell on judgement day? There's a movie I just love called "Dogma" that brings up this question. Anyway.

I can't find the text I wrote about Islam, and I don't remember the Islam judgement day prophecy by heart, but I believe it talks about 7 "signs", some of which are

The sea turning in to fires, humans building larger and larger, mothers taking care of childrens that's not their own, the one eyed beast walking the earth. At which point a man (possibly Jesus) will slay the beast, and God passing down judgements.

--------------------------------

As you can see, the Islam judgement day and the christians judgment day and religions as a whole are really very similar to eachother.

Personally, I don't feel any of them are really worth following, as they both, together with judaism, share basically everything. And all of them are stolen from even older religions.
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica][/FONT]

 

[Excalibur]

Well, apparently excailbr is ducking the thread now. It's been over a day and he has yet to show my double standard. It's fun when idiots get owned and run and hide.

If you don't understand what a double standard is there's not alot I can do besides http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/double standard

You belittle me and the fact that I believe that smoking pot results in 0 deaths a year is 'profoundly stupid', yet anyone who belittles another religion or calls their belifes stupid is wrong. I believe that smoking pot results in 0 deaths a year, you call me stupid for what I believe. Fuckin hell man, how many times do you need me to spell this all out for you?

 

[Bajaratt]

If you don't understand what a double standard is there's not alot I can do besides http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/double standard

You belittle me and the fact that I believe that smoking pot results in 0 deaths a year is 'profoundly stupid', yet anyone who belittles another religion or calls their belifes stupid is wrong. I believe that smoking pot results in 0 deaths a year, you call me stupid for what I believe. Fuckin hell man, how many times do you need me to spell this all out for you?

If you looked up the definition, why are you still using it incorrectly?

First off, I never said your "belief that pot causes 0 deaths a year" was stupid( I don't buy that at all, or any of the other statistics in your sig, but I never said the point was stupid), I said your statement that pot had 0 effect on you was stupid. Comparing intolerance towards someone's religion and thinking that inhaling chemicals having no influence on your body is pure bullshit logic. I don't judge you based on your religious beliefs because there is no way to prove one way or another if you're correct; but there sure as hell is a way to prove that smoking pot effects your body. I could think you're an idiot based on the car you drive, or your hair style or what type of soda you enjoy; none of that has anything to do with religious intolerance at all.

Second, even if i said what you think I said, there's no double standard there. Me calling you an idiot and saying that being intolerant of another's beliefs aren't contradictory statements; I never said it was right for one group to insult another and wrong for a different group to do the same thing. I'm not saying it's ok for me to call you an idiot and others to not be able to; hell they can join in all they want.

Third, I also never said that you can't think that another religion's beliefs are stupid(catholic funerals honestly scare the hell out of me, that's cult shit), but unless you're actually doing something to someone based soley on their religion it's not intolerance. I don't agree with aspects of some of the major religions(think they're stupid, you could say), but that doesn't stop me from getting along with people of those religions or respecting their faith in those beliefs; it just means that I don't follow their religion, nothing more.

I didn't think you're an idiot based on religion, I based it on your actions(or words, in this case). It's not thinking you're an idiot based on your religion regardless of your personal intelligence; I called you an idiot because of your lack of intelligence. There is no link at all between calling someone an idiot for saying/doing something stupid and hating someone based on their religion.

You're an idiot, you use words and phrases without any concept of their actual meaning(remember, emo does not mean angry or comedic); then try to act like everyone else is wrong just because you don't understand the word. There is no double standard, now that you know what it means(I'm assuming you actually read that definition, but maybe not since I'm having to make this post) maybe you'll learn that.

 

[Daveman]

If you don't understand what a double standard is there's not alot I can do besides http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/double%20standard

You belittle me and the fact that I believe that smoking pot results in 0 deaths a year is 'profoundly stupid', yet anyone who belittles another religion or calls their belifes stupid is wrong. I believe that smoking pot results in 0 deaths a year, you call me stupid for what I believe. Fuckin hell man, how many times do you need me to spell this all out for you?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=12&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov%2Fpublications%2Fpdf%2Fmj_rev.pdf&ei=oHvmRdOaHYSSgATq_MSVBw&usg=__Vz0IKXaldeTIzhZt3LUdCUi8k1o=&sig2=eAznRBHiAZIn6hQd79PPJA

Fully citied document, read Myth 1, scroll down and you can check sources if you wish. There is no way you can seriously believe smoking anything has no risk of lung cancer or other such diseases. Also a mind altering drug always carries the risk of causing a mental illness, which can lead to suicide (which wouldn't be counted as a cannabis death in your signature, it'd be listed under "suicdes" without cause ever being truely known.

If that's not enough for you, there are people out there with marijuna allergies, and considering how a a single cashew could make the rest of my day really bad (as in hospital visit), it wouldn't be farfetched to think at least 1 person a year has a deathly allergic reactions to marijuna.

And before you try to denounce this, I've never head of anyone smoking tabacco and just croaking over dead within a day. It's always lung cancer, caused many years later. Is it so hard to think marijuna can cause cancer? (Keep in mind even mcdonalds has a yearly death rate probably cause of cancer)

If you're for leaglizing marijuna don't act like a stereotypical pothead who thinks the stuff is a gift from the heavens. Acknowledge it's bad, try to reason it'll lower organized crime, take away its effect as a gateway drug, give more tax revenue for anti-smoking advertisements and education, would definatly take a load off the jail system, and since it's already easily availible to anyone, sticking a must be 21 or older sticker on it and making it expensive through taxes, may actually reduce teen consumption.

That works alot better than saying "this stuff wouldn't hurt a fly". And just fyi I'd be just fine if it were legalized, I might even vote yes, maybe they'll do something good with the extra tax money.

 

[Excalibur]

First off, I never said your "belief that pot causes 0 deaths a year" was stupid( I don't buy that at all, or any of the other statistics in your sig, but I never said the point was stupid), I said your statement that pot had 0 effect on you was stupid.

Same thing there buddy, what I state is usually what I believe.

Comparing intolerance towards someone's religion and thinking that inhaling chemicals having no influence on your body is pure bullshit logic. I don't judge you based on your religious beliefs because there is no way to prove one way or another if you're correct; but there sure as hell is a way to prove that smoking pot effects your body.

We never said smoking pot has no effect on your body, stop pulling shit out of thin air. If that was true there would be no point to smoking it. You saying this stuff only proves my point that you can't learn. This isn't the pot discussion thread though, if you wanna get beaten on that subject again start a new thread or go back to mine and try and defend your baseless claims.

I could think you're an idiot based on the car you drive, or your hair style or what type of soda you enjoy; none of that has anything to do with religious intolerance at all.

You just do not get it at all. You say I don't know what it means but it's obvious that you're the one who doesn't. I've already explained myself, I'm not gonna get into a 'who can say the same thing in more ways' debate with you, either you understand simple concepts or you don't, obviously you don't. I'm done talking about this.

You resort to name calling and flaming in a thread where everyone is just discussing because you have no ground to stand on, nothing to back up your accusations. You really have no idea what you're talking about so you talk big and bad and flex your e-cock hoping people will take you seriously because you can call names so you must be right. We were all getting along just fine, discussing opinion and exchaning viewpoints before you shot your mouth off. If you wanna flame, go to the FB, this is a thread for intelligent discussion, kindly gtfo. I'm not gonna argu about it in this thread anymore so don't waste your time.

 

[RoM]

Must just be a coincidence that whenever there's a religious thread this sort of thing befalls you, ex. :16suspect1:

 

[Bajaratt]

Same thing there buddy, what I state is usually what I believe.

It's not the same thing, one was something I called you on and the other wasn't. That's like saying an apple is the same thing as a mouth guard, because they're both things you put in your mouth. You were ignoring the point I made and created your own to respond to and even then you failed to actually show any kind of double standard.

We never said smoking pot has no effect on your body, stop pulling shit out of thin air. If that was true there would be no point to smoking it. You saying this stuff only proves my point that you can't learn.

You said that pot has no effect on you at all, way to go for bringing up my question(unanswered no less, who'd have thought with you?) and acting like it's your own. You're the one in the pot thread who said that it didn't alter anything, when it's blatantly obvious that it does; that's why I called you an idiot in the first place. I don't want to start up the pot discussion, but since part of it is relevant to what we're talking about, that's kind of unavoidable.

You just do not get it at all. You say I don't know what it means but it's obvious that you're the one who doesn't. I've already explained myself, I'm not gonna get into a 'who can say the same thing in more ways' debate with you, either you understand simple concepts or you don't, obviously you don't. I'm done talking about this.

You resort to name calling and flaming in a thread where everyone is just discussing because you have no ground to stand on, nothing to back up your accusations. You really have no idea what you're talking about so you talk big and bad and flex your e-cock hoping people will take you seriously because you can call names so you must be right. We were all getting along just fine, discussing opinion and exchaning viewpoints before you shot your mouth off. If you wanna flame, go to the FB, this is a thread for intelligent discussion, kindly gtfo. I'm not gonna argu about it in this thread anymore so don't waste your time.

You've yet to properly explain yourself at all, you just say that because I called you an idiot and I say that religious intolerance is wrong that there's a double standard, but you never actually show where that standard exists. I'm waiting on you to actually say something intelligent, so far you've just been spouting off how "obvious" a double standard I have and then proceed to completely avoid actually showing it exists. If I am the only one who doesn't see this double standard, then why has no one besides you bothered to mention it at all? It's probably because they don't see it either because it doesn't exist.

Also, way to go for ignoring half of my post, and just making little blippy responses, to the first things I said. I already pointed out that even if I did think your belief in pot was stupid, that it has nothing at all to do with your religious beliefs; for some reason you are incapable of understanding that they are two separate things. You're following the Peregrine model of losing arguments, ignore 90% of the posts and claim anyone who disagrees is an idiot despite that defying all logic.

The only name calling I've been doing is calling you an idiot for your utter lack of logic and using words/terms without knowing what they mean. The fact that you have no idea what a double standard is or how to even show one exists isn't my problem.

Put up or shut up, show a double standard(and I mean prove it, not just say "oh it's there, just only you can't see it") or just shut the fuck up already.

 

[exodusamphi]

Pot reduces short term memory, and makes you stink... thats about it...


/thread continue

 

[Negorissimo]

I will say what I've said all the time about religion.

Don't put eternity at risk for a mere 50~70 years in this world. You better be sure where you are going when you die.

I choose Salvation.

 

[Taurothar]

I will say what I've said all the time about religion.

Don't put eternity at risk for a mere 50~70 years in this world. You better be sure where you are going when you die.

I choose Salvation.

In response to this, I'd rather put an unsure eternity at risk than risk losing the guaranteed time I have with friends and family.

 

[pakomen]

I'm going back to the place I came from before I was born.

Nowhere.

Out of existance.

I've wasted 21 years worth of Sundays believing in something that has as little proof as Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy, and the more time goes by, the more every religion comes closer and closer to be exposed as something many of us have already known--that it's no more than a man made invention.

I wasted 21 years as a "christian". I was as "sure" as you are about there being a god and a heaven. In the end, I was allowing myself to be brainwashed since I was a child. We're told these amazing stories when we're children so that we'll believe, and by the time we reach adulthood they'll be so hardwired into our skulls that we don't have any option but to continue believing. I'll tell you one thing. It's a LOT harder to drop your religion than it is to become a ________ (insert religion).

 

[Bigboy]

I'm going back to the place I came from before I was born.

lolyourmom

 

[Bajaratt]

lolyourmom

I'd hope that wouldn't be the last thing I'd see as I die.

 

[Raesvelg]

I frequently marvel at the need some people have for a higher meaning to their lives.

Rather than, y'know, living.

My parents raised me to be skeptical. My sister wanted to go to bible school, so my parents sent the both of us.

They sent me home.

I asked too many questions.

I was 6 years old.

Now I realize, most competent theologists won't be stumped by the average 6 year old. I've had enough decent debates with them in the years since then, after all. But every single argument for the existence of a supreme deity is inherently hollow, when you get right down to it.

"Something had to come first." True enough. That something need not be omniscient and omnipotent. Hell, it need not even be sentient. Nothing in the structure of the universe requires design.

"Life is too complex to arise spontaneously." Says... who, exactly? You? How well educated are you in even the basics of biology? Do you even understand the sorts of time scales involved? If you toss dice for a billion years, you'd be amazed at the kind of results you can generate.

"God has a plan." This one always freaked me out. Assuming God does indeed, have a plan... what exactly is that plan? To make mankind suffer and die in horrible ways, punish people for sins they never committed, and lead them to kill each other in God's name? Is God insane? Is he a sadist? Is he perhaps just incredibly lazy?

"There has to be something more to life than just this material world." Why? Really, why does there have to be more than this? Because someday you'll die, and that you will cease to be? That you won't even KNOW YOU'RE DEAD?!?!

Why do people need religion? I understand in theory that it offers an external moral compass (so you don't have to think for yourself), a sense of belonging and that somehow you are special (aids in the old self esteem), and a sense that you'll be rewarded and experience some sort of continuance after your death (good for those who have terrible lives).

I just can't get past the fundamental premise of it, really. How... silly it seems to be, to put all this faith into something that no living person has ever verifiably seen, spoken to, or witnessed the actions of.

Think about it for a minute. How many people have ever actually read the Bible (Old/New Testament, doesn't matter), the Koran (Spelling it with a Q is asinine), or for that matter the text of any organized religion? (lolDianetics) When you read it, were you looking for inspiration, or were you turning a genuinely critical eye to the material? Were you placing it in context, or were you reading it in isolation of the time and atmosphere in which it was written? Most people who "study" the Bible barely qualify as having read it. The phrases "Rife with inconsistencies" and "blatantly political" frequently spring to mind.

And yet people base their lives around these books, written by comittees of people hundreds and/or thousands of years ago, with obvious agendas and secular goals, and apparently most of them are perfectly willing to accept the work of man as the word of God.

 

[pakomen]

lolyourmom

YOURMOM!! ; ;

 

[Tok]

in the long run...its useless to sit and wonder your entire life about what comes next

live each day like its your last and you will have lived a full life...this is why i dont go to bed until 3 in the morning, sleep is a waste

anyway

no body knows whats gonna happen when you die

i dont give a fuck how much research you've done

i dont care how many times god has "touched" you

you dont know

no one will know until they are dead