BOL - Check your members some more

Now when an Exp pt lies and takes ulli anyways after saying they'd give it, we have a problem.
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From my understanding, the exp pt did NOT lie and say they weren't going to take Ulli. They were under an agreement that alliance wouldn't take xp mobs, and in return they wouldn't CC for Ulli. Now, because of bad communication, the alliance were still killing the exp party's xp mobs. So the question is are all bets off on letting the alliance have Ulli? In the exp party's eyes, the alliance wasn't holding up their end of the agreement, so why should they hold up theirs?

So after 30-45 min. of gimp xp, the alliance "finally" notices the pt's existence, and says "you guys can have the exp mobs" or something like that. The exp pt already feeling like they were getting shafted from the beginning, no longer felt that agreement should be made. Maybe after 30 minutes more with no Ulli popping and them getting full go at mobs things would have cooled down, but he popped like 5 minutes after. At which point, the frustrated pt felt that all bets were off on not claming Ulli. Etc. etc.

Firestreak sez that the alliances are doing the xp party a "favor" by letting them xp there. But in some cases the agreement is mutually beneficial, the xp party killing golems that some consider a hassle. Although in most cases, yes it is done as a favor to the xp parties. However, an xp pt shouldn't be lead to believe that the golems will be left alone, and the alliance still ends up killing half of them. If u say you're going to let them have the golems, then follow through. I'm sure if the xp pt had known beforehand that they were only going to be given chain #3s, they would have looked elsewhere. Btw, there are 10 mobs there and assuming that the 2 in midle were taken, wouldn't it be right to think that the xp pt would at least get chain 4 or 5 from the rest, followed by a chain 1 or 2 and waiting for others to respawn, or maybe others respawning midchain? Killing the 2 that agro in the middle shouldn't be enough to disrupt the xp pt to receive only as far as chain#3s. I might be incorrect, but that's just my thought.

The inherent question that keeps getting thrown is that if this happens, should xp pts just never be allowed there when an LS is hunting the pop item? How can we trust an xp pt? Yet these questions are biased towards the LSs. What about, if an xp pt shows up, can they trust that the LS will actually let them have the needed xp mobs? If LS doesn't hold up their end of the agreement, should the xp pt hold up theirs? And if they don't, does that give LSs a right to MPK them? All I know is if i went there to xp under the assumption that we'd have xp mobs and they can have Ulli, and then we're only getting half the mobs or less. After being lead on, using up food, and from 30 min. of gimp xp, I'd probably take a go at getting Ulli too.
If you say you're gonna let an xp pt have the mobs, then let them have them. If not, then it's not really a favor anymore. It's more like giving them ur table scraps. Those might get spit back in your face.
 
It seems everyone defending BoL's mpk are primarily members of BoL. The main person who has been defending BoL's actions and is not a member of the ls has been Firestreak.
I was reading the thread called "An open letter to HNM shells and those wo camp them." Fire speaks alot on honor and whats right and wrong. He made many statements about how cheating is wrong, gil buying, using sniffer programs or whatever they are, MPKing ect.
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It's all context. Me and Yanzi argued there too and the main point I was making was it was wrong to MPK, use cheating 3rd party programs, claim-steal, ext. Not just wrong to "cheat if you get caught."
It's also wrong to go around punching people. Doesn't mean if someone is taking a swing at you you can't take a swing back. However that doesn't justify if someone takes a swing at you... you get to punch everyone you ever see from that point on in the face. Meaning, once 1 on 1, someone is using what I consider grief tactics vs you, in immediate response it's ok to do the same in response.

So you are saying because they are an experience party they have no claim to the NM? Cuz thats what it sounds like. It may be an experience party at first but then turned into NM party. When I go with an experience party and something pops like Ulli and I know the party can take it, we do. In fact, Ive done it twice. Objectives can change and guess what? They did. When experience parties level in gustav tunnel and Wyverpoacher pops, do you think a good party is going to back down since they are there just for experience? What about Ose? I am sure you've never seen him killed by an experience party because of that pesky experience only rule... Oh wait, it doesn't exist. You want to make the excuse that sky is different, but I want to know why? Is sky governed by an unseen set of rules that everyone else knows nothing about? Because there is some sort of code of ethics that makes sky different? Who made these codes? Seriously, I missed them when I walked down the hall of the gods and I need someone to show them to me. I know one rule, its not to MPK. I follow it but apparently not everyone else feels its worth listening too...
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Let me explain something to you, and I'd strain for you to argue against this. If you are correct, and it's ok for a PT to go back on an agreement even if a few statues are killed and simply take Ulli... then there is no LS in this game on any single server that would ever stop killing statues nonstop. I'd like to ask anyone from NH, BoL, Kaizen, Valkrys, ext ext, anyone...

If you're camping Ulli and an exp party arrives. They do not agree that they won't claim Ulli, would you simply let them kill statues and motivate them to stay?

The answer is hell no. And there are plenty of other exp camps in sky. The point is they only stayed because BoL stopped killing statues for them, and then they only got the claim because they LIED. I can already promise you, anyone who has been arguing against me on this thread, if any of you are trying to get your last 2 levels to 75 and decide to park your ass in Statues room while I'm camping Ulli, there's no way in hell you're getting any exp. You've already problem you consider it OK to claim Ulli even if I did you the favor of leaving you statues I could be killing for some merit points.(even 2k an hour is kind of nice while camping something)

All I am trying to argue is, the control of the room does in fact remain in whatever LS hands that is camping and does the favor of letting the party have statues. What is my purpose? Because quite often, I'm in one of those exp parties, and I don't want this camp to go away.

All you are doing is making hollow excuses for what you know is wrong. I am not saying BoL is completely at fault but you seem to want to justify the MPK in any possible way.
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Based on.... what? My inherant love for BoL? Do I have one friend who's a member? I know quite a few BoL people I don't like...

Apparently you don't know shit Firestreak. I know I am not exactly the most knowledgeable about gods since I am a whm and am usually left out of the loop but apparently I know more than you. Not all god pop NM need to have place holders killed. And as someone already stated and you completely ignored, Ulli can pop without killing placeholders which again I see no reason to disbelieve since the person has no motive to lie. Faust pops without killing place holders so why not Ulli? Because people think you have to? People still think killing lizards in South Gustaberg will make Leaping Lizzy spawn faster, doesn't mean they are right. I know some god pop NM need place holders to be killed like despot; however, so do NMs like Ungur and Amikiri so I want to know how they are uniquely different? And I have killed gods and camped god pop NMs so don't assume since you seem to lack the knowledge yourself. All NM are different in some way but that doesn't make them no longer a NM. The only difference here is these NM drop items which pop gods.

If it doesn't pop red, its not yours. That means its fair game. You want to kill it, go ahead, but don't bitch if someone else takes it because you wasted your precious time camping, like its never happened in this game before.
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This is debatable. Ulli among others is considered still a lottery pop based on killing statues. It's possible people have killed the placeholders, left and it popped afterwards, then a LS came up before it was killed making it not appear to be a lottery pop, but officially it's considered one. I have camped it many times but I've never just sat there to see if it will spawn while the other 10 are spawned already. If you have please be my guest and submit correction to Alla Mysterytour, ext and inform the leaders of all the LSes. Until then kindly shut the hell up about what you don't actually know because you ARE out of the loop.
 
he actually does NOT have a place holder. he has popped on us without killing the placeholders before. goes along with one of the other ideas that mg has to be killed for ulli to pop or whatever the heck it was, i dont remember.
 
yes he does have placeholders mainly the middle ones in the room.
 
Lavi, you really are lost on a lot of things... I agree with you some times, but other times you sound like a retard.

SKY NM and normal NM are completely differnt... at Simmy, do LS make agreement not to CC and take turns? hell no! does this happen in sky? hell yes

You are also saying any NM is no one NM if it is yellow, so basicallly anyone can get it. This is BS...so when you finally get to do Kirin, and an opposing LS for whatever reason, steals it, CFH, youll just live with it? are you serious?

You are right that no party has claim to a NM thats why we make a little thing called an agreement. Ive witnessed agreements made by differnt Sky LS so many times, weatherit being on agreeing which NM to camp so there wont be CC, or sharing ToD with a fellow sky LS

However, at Ulli, there was an EXP party, and a SKY LS there, 2 groups with 2 differnt objectives. One wanted the XP, one wanted the Ulli. It boils down to communication... if BoL was still killing mobs, the XP party should of went to them and said "Please stop killing our mobs, do not worry, we will not take Ulli" However, BoL shouldnt of been killing mobs in the first place. But it all boils down to lack of communication. even when the xp party got Ulli, and BoL asked for it back, and the xp party did not answer, it once again shows a lack of communication

Imhonestly worried about you Lavi.. im not trying to justify MPK, i wasnt at this event, and ive never MPK in my life... and will only MPK in retaliation (and i think i would of i was put in the situation like many people have stated)
But your beliefs and views of sky really, really scare me. Im worried about you coming to our Kirin and stealing it because "it was yellow, its anyones monster !!lololol"

and dont give me this shit about you are worried BoL with MPK you...because we wont.... ask any sky LS, we wont just MPK you for random shit, such as taking a faust ,zip, ect
However, if you even look at the screenshots, you can see deci's anger because he believed they broke the agreement and he wanted retaliation.
Like i said, lack of communication on BOTH sides
 
hazell said:
yes he does have placeholders mainly the middle ones in the room.
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i guess him popping on us after being there for near an hour without killing placeholders was a hoax
 
Firestreak said:
And there are plenty of other exp camps in sky. The point is they only stayed because BoL stopped killing statues for them, and then they only got the claim because they LIED.
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An initial agreement was struck. However, the leader wasn't informed of such agreement, and they still kept killing statues. So LS broke agreement, why should XP PT hold up their end? 30-45 min later LS notices that the PT is there. Yet no agreement or communication was made with the PT, just an assumption from previous dealings with other xp pts. The xp pt feeling that they'd been lead on, takes Ulli. Now where in there did they LIE?
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Eladamiri said:
Lavi, you really are lost on a lot of things... I agree with you some times, but other times you sound like a retard.

SKY NM and normal NM are completely differnt... at Simmy, do LS make agreement not to CC and take turns? hell no! does this happen in sky? hell yes

You are also saying any NM is no one NM if it is yellow, so basicallly anyone can get it. This is BS...so when you finally get to do Kirin, and an opposing LS for whatever reason, steals it, CFH, youll just live with it? are you serious?

You are right that no party has claim to a NM thats why we make a little thing called an agreement. Ive witnessed agreements made by differnt Sky LS so many times, weatherit being on agreeing which NM to camp so there wont be CC, or sharing ToD with a fellow sky LS

However, at Ulli, there was an EXP party, and a SKY LS there, 2 groups with 2 differnt objectives. One wanted the XP, one wanted the Ulli. It boils down to communication... if BoL was still killing mobs, the XP party should of went to them and said "Please stop killing our mobs, do not worry, we will not take Ulli" However, BoL shouldnt of been killing mobs in the first place. But it all boils down to lack of communication. even when the xp party got Ulli, and BoL asked for it back, and the xp party did not answer, it once again shows a lack of communication

Imhonestly worried about you Lavi.. im not trying to justify MPK, i wasnt at this event, and ive never MPK in my life... and will only MPK in retaliation (and i think i would of i was put in the situation like many people have stated)
But your beliefs and views of sky really, really scare me. Im worried about you coming to our Kirin and stealing it because "it was yellow, its anyones monster !!lololol"

and dont give me this shit about you are worried BoL with MPK you...because we wont.... ask any sky LS, we wont just MPK you for random shit, such as taking a faust ,zip, ect
However, if you even look at the screenshots, you can see deci's anger because he believed they broke the agreement and he wanted retaliation.
Like i said, lack of communication on BOTH sides
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Did I say I was going to steal Kirin? Did I not post that claim stealing was wrong in a previous post? It worries me that you can't read... I understand LS make an agreement to share sky NM by telling them what NM died and where each other will be. We do not want to waste our own time and if it means sharing info then we have no choice. The ONLY reason this happens though is because they are a lot of god pop NM and we could be at another camp, but since no one comprehends my aguement I will repeat it. LEts say a lot of people get sky real soon because maybe SE lowered the experience to get 75 thus making it faster and easier to get there. Now the ratio of LS to god pop NM is going to drop drastically. What then? People wait their turn because you have some preset code? Or they CC at a chance at god pop items someone else is already camping? When space becomes very limited I will guarantee this will happen again. People will have no choice but to CC others to get what they want and because its sky makes no difference. When I firsts started sky there were only 2-3 LS regularly in sky farming on the same night as my LS, now there is 4-5 different LS farming, but thats just a coincidence...

Now again with the favor. There was some agreement, to what extent no one really knows, but the party was under the impression that they would get experience and did not have to leave but when the experience came to a sudden halt, I am sure they were none to happy about it. The trust was then broken when BoL kept killing statues which they knew full well they had to do since they were camping the room thus pissing off the exp party. Now you argue they let them stay but if they let them stay, stop killing their mobs they were they would have. Whats the point in letting pasty stay if you kill the mobs and give them nothing for experience? When you do someone a favor and only do half what you said you would, people are not as recieving as you think they are. They expect you to fulfil that favor and BoL obviously did not.

Oh and yes there are other camps in sky but there are also a ton more parties in sky too. I am willing to bet this wasn't the experience parties first choice for camp. So imagine this, I bet a lot of the BoL members there also like getting experience in sky. Where do they go when someone takes all the experience party spots there? I mean its clear if they want to kick out the experience party from Ulli, someone else will do the same to them and sky is limited in safe camps with a good amount of mobs to pull. So what next? One less camp for high levels which is one of the largest populated groups in the game. Check the census and level 71-75 has more people in it then any group post level 20 and its only a 5 level spread.

I am not stating I like this new way things will happen nor do I want them, but when it comes down to it, people will do it. Competition in sky sucks. Having to camp a god pop NM isn't exactly great fun and not as exciting as a god but it needs to be done so people can get the abjurations and god armor they want. Eventually when it gets too crowded these codes people go by will cease to exist and sky will be just like any other HNM.
 
There's no point continuing this argument, it all seems to be based on the context of how many mobs were pulled by alliance, what time what deals were struck, what sort of communications if any were going back and forth and what exact times things happened in relationship to Ulli. Only the party and the alliance seem to know exactly what happened and we're getting descrepencies, changed numbers and arguments based on that of both side. I simply said, if there's 2 chain 3s, that's 8 monsters, or 1 full spawn to themselves minus the 2 that pop in the center where they were camping. That could mean a lot ora little based on when exactly they were popping versus when certain deals were struck.
The point I was making was never that they had no right to CC BoL(though some might argue that, I won't). So you can quit arguing against what I'm not advocating, because it simply is an irritating waste of time. It was that if they went back on the deal then at least everyone was wrong, and leave it to be between the party and the alliance and no one else.
But there's no point going back and forth endlessly, based on the information given we've both shown possible scenariors where either of us is right and neither of us were there so we'll leave it at that.
 
masterorion1 said:
hazell said:
yes he does have placeholders mainly the middle ones in the room.
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i guess him popping on us after being there for near an hour without killing placeholders was a hoax
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he cant pop if there is already 10 aura statues up. so either your ls or another pt was killing statues. and if you ARENT, its pretty dumb to sit there and not kill placeholders
 
reason Decidence didn't claim it was most likely because he was on BLM.. and what Mage is that stupid to cast on Ulli with about 4 other Golems in range to aggro to the magic? I sure as hell know I wouldn't and I'm pretty damn sure Decidence isn't dumb either.
 
Like i said, lack of communication on BOTH sides
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Does anything more need to be said? Better communication = less hassels and hurt feelings and misunderstandings. If there had been a clear line of communication between party and alliance, this would not have happened.
 
Elemmire said:
reason Decidence didn't claim it was most likely because he was on BLM.. and what Mage is that stupid to cast on Ulli with about 4 other Golems in range to aggro to the magic? I sure as hell know I wouldn't and I'm pretty damn sure Decidence isn't dumb either.
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bol had 7 other ppl there to claim still.
 
maybe.. but maybe they didn't see it before it was too late? I dunno.. maybe they were preparing for it and making sure everyone was there, ready, and at full MP/HP and foods renewed? not everyone engages things without being ready.
 
Now nobody is gonna trust anyone there. If I go there, there's no way in hell I'll stop pulling statues. XP Parties can piss off. No way I'd stop killing statues for a PT to xp if there's a chance they'll take Ulli.
 
Its posts like your's kyle that leads xp pt's to becoming NM pt's.
 
some exp parties go up to get both the NM and exp.. often a group in my LS will go up and exp off statues waiting for Ulli. You really don't need more than 6 to kill Ulli
 
masterorion1 said:
hazell said:
yes he does have placeholders mainly the middle ones in the room.
Click to expand...
i guess him popping on us after being there for near an hour without killing placeholders was a hoax
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He does have a placeholder.

There's another sky NM that is a lottery off the golems (I would tell you which one, but then I'd have to kill you). If another LS killed that NM and Ulli's window was up, then Ulli would most likely pop in place of the last golem because of that.
 
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