Convince me to be a Democrat...

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What's kind of interesting is that recently so many young people are voting conservative. Some of the old time liberal elitist reporters don't know how to make sense of it. I listened to this report of this crusty old bitch going on about how kids are so stupid nowadays.

"They even think that 9-11 has something to do with Iraq!"
She went off on how she tried to "teach" the students that her way of thinking was in fact the only way they should be taught in public school. I wanted to slug her in the face. Those smelly LSD addicted protestors are well educated but the kids who might not buy into that horseshit are to be labeled stupid by mainstream media. Then that message is filtered out into entertainment outlets and overtime people begin to see it as factual.
 
Most of the people I knew that voted conservative that are my age came from strictly conservative background, some also being Mormon. Family values people. Not to say that most of the liberals didnt come from liberal families even though I knew of one kid who comes from a conservative, oil man family who voted for Kerry. I know a couple of conservatives who know their shit, and some liberals that know their shit. Most of the influence is from family on both sides in my opinion, not actually grasping the issues, but yet having a stance on them. /sigh
 
Mattaru said:
vang said:
Burden of proof, burden of proof....blah, what ever happened to common sense?

So you have never voted?

Ask some people in the ghetto, ask the pot heads at school who would represent them and their style of living (or lack thereof for these parasites) better if they were forced to vote? Republican or Democrat? I think we all know the answer.

These are the same people that take my hard earned dollar and turn it into 67 cents because they need "Assistance" in living because none of these skanks can keep their fucking legs closed or their baby daddys can keep a fucking job for more than a month and I have to make up for it.

Go ahead, young buck, ask them what party best represents their values. 8)
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I've said already vang, as far as the economy I'm libertarian, a movement started by Ayn Rand (I do have some disagreements none the less) do you know what that is. Its pretty much your money your business. I think social security is outdated and needs to be scrapped, you think the poor would like me? No way. I know plenty of conservative pot heads, and liberal ones of course. The democratic agenda with the economy goes for big social programs which I believe are bound to fail. If anything the modern Republican party is moving in a direction of big government as well.

But who gives a shit, they are poor the democrats represent their values, they vote for them. Thats ddemocracy. Much like the rich want to keep their money, they value their money, thats what they are going to vote on. Democracy, you know what that is right. Your logic is the same on the both sides, the warrant is the same the only thing that is different is the value systems. Objectively the concept of value is the same, subjectively it is different. We could argue about the differences between the value systems and why one is better than the other on the subjective level if you'd like, but I tend to agree with the position dealing with the poor. Many adults become dependent on the system in place, so it doesnt help.

You are preaching to the choir with me on that issue.

There it is from the young buck.

My problem with Republicans domestically btw is that they are not fiscally responsible anymore, big projects need money. At least Democrats have the sense to pay for the programs they start.

Internationally, well i have many posts on that so far so read those.
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And my problem with Democrats is that they are unappreciative pacifist wimps who promote all the wrong things with this country. They do nothing more than constantly whine about war and laying down at all times. Ones a draft dodger, another goes and serves and then comes back to protest the war....what the hell?

If you people would feel more comfortable living overseas with the sand people then by all means do so. I had a buddy serve over there and he has to come back to protests and all this bullshit on the liberal media. And yes i did break out the tired "Love it or leave it" speech, because honestly, it's the truth.
 
Alanon can you see my why at times I have the point of view I have?
 
Vang so by your point of view you do not believe in democracy but rather would rather have a conservative totalitarian government, and anyone who disagrees with your view should be deported from the country, if they are poor they are sub human. Anything else you would like to share?
 
I'd like to point you all to a classic example I just read this morning. In the Sunday Times in the Week in Review section, Front page of the section, a jackass by the name of Nicholas Confessore wrote an article titled "Going for Broke may Break Bush."

Basically saying, Bush is an idiot for trying to reform social security, cause no one gives a shit about it. Interesting because just the other day in class my teacher was talking to us about population growth and according to the projected numbers, at this rate there will be 2 people on social securty for every 2 people working.
He went off saying how Bush is ignoring people's lack of interest and how he's too dumb to see what he does so clearly.

America, these are the people who give you news. People who think if the public doesn't have any interest, the problem isn't even important. Yeah no one cares, until the economy is ruined.

If I here another democrat talk about how investing into mutal funds is "risky" I'm gonna hurl. The system is already so inaffecient I might as well take my money and shove it in a shoe box in my closet, cause this is no improvement. Only here they have a chance to redistribute it and burn some of it in the process. Hell if some people got there way I should just drop out of college and work at the gas station cause apparently that means I am entitled to the same salary according to some people on this thread.
 
Pascal said:
Vang so by your point of view you do not believe in democracy but rather would rather have a conservative totalitarian government, and anyone who disagrees with your view should be deported from the country, if they are poor they are sub human. Anything else you would like to share?
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Nah, that pretty much sums it up. :wink:
 
Pascal said:
Vang so by your point of view you do not believe in democracy but rather would rather have a conservative totalitarian government, and anyone who disagrees with your view should be deported from the country, if they are poor they are sub human. Anything else you would like to share?
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I got one...

Don't determine what someone said and spin it to make them sound bad. I wont share my political views, but just taking someone's non-filtered opinion and declaring them to be for a totalitarian government... dumb.
 
Interesting story from the AP: Howard Dean's last opponent for DNC chair just dropped out, and said some... telling stuff:

"I got into this race five weeks ago to talk about the devastating loss we experienced in November," Roemer said in an interview. "It was not about 60,000 votes in Ohio. It was about losing 97 of the 100 fastest growing counties in the country. If that's a trend in business or politics you're in trouble."

Republicans are in the strongest position they've been in since the early 20th century, Roemer said.
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I'd never heard that stat before - out of the 100 fastest growing counties in America, 97 of them voted Bush. And all I was ever told by the Dems was the 'smart' affluent urban bluebloods were voting Kerry and the bumfuck nowhere toothless hicks were voting Bush. Hmm.

"If there’s one reason Senator Kerry lost the presidential race, it was because he failed to make the American people feel safer,” Roemer said, adding that he also wanted to encourage talk within the party about developing a stronger position on values.
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IMO, the Democratic party is splintering. On the one side, you have the Union Democrats, who are, as a whole, really patriotic, have children in the military, but like the Democratic position on worker's rights and such.

Then you have the Michael Moore/MoveOn.org/Al Franken/Democratic Underground wing, which is basically the radical lunatic vote. You move even slightly to the right on any social issue with them (i.e. faith-based initiatives, abortion, etc) and you've lost their vote.

This was one of the main problems Kerry faced, and why he 'flip-flopped' so much. He couldn't afford to alienate either end of the Democratic base vote, so he changed positions based on who he was speaking to. Stuck in the middle of that, of course, is the minority vote, which is swinging Republican more and more every year as they start to see the far-left Dems treating Bush's minority cabinet choices as 'traitors to their race.'

And their new leader is one that will cowtow to the latter group, possibly turning the party farther and farther away from the mainstream. For the Democratic party to mount a serious challenge at any point in the next few years, they're going to HAVE to move to the center. But I just don't see Dean making that move.
 
vang said:
And my problem with Democrats is that they are unappreciative pacifist wimps who promote all the wrong things with this country. They do nothing more than constantly whine about war and laying down at all times. Ones a draft dodger, another goes and serves and then comes back to protest the war....what the hell?

If you people would feel more comfortable living overseas with the sand people then by all means do so. I had a buddy serve over there and he has to come back to protests and all this bullshit on the liberal media. And yes i did break out the tired "Love it or leave it" speech, because honestly, it's the truth.
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Wow, way to generalize. That's all I need to say. If I was drafted I'd fight in a war I don't believe in. I find it ridiculous. There are plenty of great people that go to war come back and show their disdain for it. Its called experience last time I checked war was a real shitty thing unless you like needlessly playing with people's lives. There are times when it is necesarry, I'm not a pacifist. I like how don't adress most anything I say. You pick, and choose, because your prescripted crap doesn't know how to break out of its mold of preconception, or else you'd actually be debating with me. Logical fallacy 101: Extreme generalization: Vang has made it. Some people that are labelled democrats have a beilief and express it (pacisfism and protest), to Vang this = all Democrats are tree hugging, pot smoking, Ghandi loving, pinko-commis that are big blubbering vaginas.

The "sand people". Last time i checked we didnt live on Tatooine, I'm pretty sure we are all human beings, some good some bad, all human.

Your freind has come back to protests. In my opinion, most people are against the people creating an impetus to send your buddy to go fight "sand people" not your freind. If it is entirely his choice, obviously not everyone has to worship the ground you walk on for the choices you make. Every choice has a consequence for some it could be death, a fullfillment of duty, or people disagreeing with that choice. Thats the way it is Vang, no spin, no liberal bias, just the nature of a choice.
 
This country goes through shifts all the time... well relatively speaking...

Do I think the country is heading toward a more conservative stance on most issues? Yes, nobody can deny that.

Do I think it will always be that way? No sir, I dont.

New issues will arise, people will make their own decisions. Or people will let "their party" make the choice for them. I dont think you can paint all the people in one group as "pot smoking hippies" or " inbred dumb-fucks."

And I dont wanna hear about how either party is the party of so-and-so, both sides have their outspoked whackjobs and it doesnt matter if some are more prominent than the others, both sides like these kinds of people.


.... /sigh, I'm tired...

Anyways, I like discussions like this, but some parts of it do piss me off... mostly the generalizing and demonizing of other's views... Refuting misinformation is one thing, calling someone a dumbass is another.

-Ham :shock:
 
Mattaru said:
I find it ridiculous.
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Forgot to finish the sentence. I find it ridiculous that you would group me as a draft dodger just because I'm not Republican and for the most part democrat. It's a duty to my country, that I am obliged to fulfil.
 
Mattaru said:
vang said:
And my problem with Democrats is that they are unappreciative pacifist wimps who promote all the wrong things with this country. They do nothing more than constantly whine about war and laying down at all times. Ones a draft dodger, another goes and serves and then comes back to protest the war....what the hell?

If you people would feel more comfortable living overseas with the sand people then by all means do so. I had a buddy serve over there and he has to come back to protests and all this bullshit on the liberal media. And yes i did break out the tired "Love it or leave it" speech, because honestly, it's the truth.
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Wow, way to generalize. That's all I need to say. If I was drafted I'd fight in a war I don't believe in. I find it ridiculous. There are plenty of great people that go to war come back and show their disdain for it. Its called experience last time I checked war was a real shitty thing unless you like needlessly playing with people's lives. There are times when it is necesarry, I'm not a pacifist. I like how don't adress most anything I say. You pick, and choose, because your prescripted crap doesn't know how to break out of its mold of preconception, or else you'd actually be debating with me. Logical fallacy 101: Extreme generalization: Vang has made it. Some people that are labelled democrats have a beilief and express it (pacisfism and protest), to Vang this = all Democrats are tree hugging, pot smoking, Ghandi loving, pinko-commis that are big blubbering vaginas.

The "sand people". Last time i checked we didnt live on Tatooine, I'm pretty sure we are all human beings, some good some bad, all human.

Your freind has come back to protests. In my opinion, most people are against the people creating an impetus to send your buddy to go fight "sand people" not your freind. If it is entirely his choice, obviously not everyone has to worship the ground you walk on for the choices you make. Every choice has a consequence for some it could be death, a fullfillment of duty, or people disagreeing with that choice. Thats the way it is Vang, no spin, no liberal bias, just the nature of a choice.
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Nah dude, democrats are just weak and cowardly, that's all....i'm not a big fan of either. No need to get all heated about it, even though you're not even old enough to vote yet. Thus, your opinion is null and void to me.

But you can keep posting everything you learned in Social studies class today. I must admit, you're very well spoken ^^
 
vang said:
Nah dude, democrats are just weak and cowardly, that's all....i'm not a big fan of either. No need to get all heated about it, even though you're not even old enough to vote yet. Thus, your opinion is null and void to me.

But you can keep posting everything you learned in Social studies class today. I must admit, you're very well spoken ^^
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Seeing as today in my History class I read about Populism it probably doesn't apply. Vang I've done debate for four years, including national and foreign extemporaneous speaking, it has been an invaluable tool in gaining a world view and policy view. I haven't been spoon fed to spew this by anyone, at least give me that credit.

Well, I hope it is encouraging to you to know a 17 year old that can't vote is managing to poke holes in everything you have brought up.

So about Populism since you seem interested. Basically, it is a movement by rural farmers of the midwest and south that felt disenfranchised by corporate farms and eastern monopoly's. On the national level they didn't amount to much yet, in the midwest and southern legislatures they had alot of strength. Their main failing was their lack of incorporating labor reform movements into their party.
 
Mattaru said:
Seeing as today in my History class I read about Populism it probably doesn't apply. Vang I've done debate for four years, including national and foreign extemporaneous speaking, it has been an invaluable tool in gaining a world view and policy view. I haven't been spoon fed to spew this by anyone, at least give me that credit.
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You do NFL Matt? I did that when I was in highschool ^.^

-Ham :shock:
 
Haha yeah Ham went to nats last year in congress and almost in LD, got fifth in state sophomore year though. I'm over a thousand points now. \(^.^)/
 
Firestreak said:
I spoked pot in high school.
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I quit, its bad stuff.
 
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