Curjos

Status
Not open for further replies.

Urat

The Chocobo Master
Adventurer
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
648
Location
Canada
Website
urats-chocobo-blog.blogspot.com
Main Job
Dancer-Male
Secondary Job
Dancer-Male
Third Job
Dancer-Male
Server
Quetzalcoatl
Linkshell
---
Dude, seriously...

I understand you dislike me.

I also understand you very much disagree with my theory on chocobo coloring.

I really have no problem with that at all. To each their own, right?

Even if all you did was raise 1. Thats it, 1 bird, and base all of your reasoning against my theory on that 1 bird, against my 25 plus hundreds of stats sent to me by people to assist my theory.

Really, you believe what you wanna believe man, that's cool.

But.. this? Posting all over wiki that my theory is bullshit, when people even admitted it kind of supported it, messaging me with insulting and snide comments over how "butthurt" I am over you "destroying my years wort of work"?

You guys may be going, lolchocobo, but that isn't quite the point. I spent a very notable amount of time building a theory in the game, and now Curjos seems to consider himself some crusader against me,the antichrist of chocobo religions...

But you know what? Whatever, people seemed to disregard what you said and moved on, and I shrugged it off. With a user base of thousands, there's bound to be one or two douches running around screaming at you over nothing...

But now you've gone just a little too far dude, no seriously. I spent a lot of work on my guide to raising ( http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Breeders_Guide_by_Urat ), to provide new breeders a step by step guide to get a really decent bird for them to feel proud off. Unlike other guides that just told you what everything does, mine tells you how to use these tools effectivly.

Then you waltze in and stick this little snide comment up at the top of my page? Who the hell do you think you are man? I am tired of your insulting attitude, sticking your nose in everytime I make a chocobo related post.

Charitwo has been alerted, and I'd appreciate it if you just stopped. I am asking pleasently this time, and am trying to keep this as civil as possible. Before you make any more comments like this, first go read the actual theory before assuming it hasn't changed any way at all in the past year since you last saw it. Then post your bird's stats on the section of the discussion page I created just for that for comparison to my theory.

Then maybe we can have an actual civil talk about whether or not your bird's stats prove or disprove my concept.
 
I was gonna say how can ya prove it but then again, at the bottom of the guide page you can see the Recent Contributors and roll over one of the icons and Curjos URL shows up at the bottom of the broswer.

That's kinda bad people can't grow up and let shit die.

lolcryforattention?
 
Im really not trying to be a douche or insult your work Urat, but really... all this over Chocobo Raising?

It just seems silly for him to provoke you and you to get so frustrated for somethng as small as chocobo raising. Its not that serious (My Opinion).

People will always disagree with you, some just for the sake of disagreeing. Don't let people like that get to you, it'll knock you off your square, which is what they really want.
 
Im really not trying to be a douche or insult your work Urat, but really... all this over Chocobo Raising?

It just seems silly for him to provoke you and you to get so frustrated for somethng as small as chocobo raising. Its not that serious (My Opinion).

People will always disagree with you, some just for the sake of disagreeing. Don't let people like that get to you, it'll knock you off your square, which is what they really want.

It's less the chocobo raising, more the fact that he had the nerve to put such a snide comment on my own guide of all places. It could be anything, fishing, a leveling guide, chocobo raising just happened to by the subject.

But yeah, maybe chocobo raiisng is a bit much to get worked over, but this guys been riding my ass for almost a year now >.<

Had to Blist him in game, block him here, on BG and am trying to on wiki. Temporarily unblocking him for this thread since he's gonna wanna reply, and it is unfair to ignore him in a flame directed right at him.
 
Your thinking racing, ad it was less of an own and more of a difference of opinion.

Specificly on the existance of one out of 6 of the stats I proposed. The rest are kind of in item descriptions you use so it's hard to argue against that.

Once again, they have their opinion, I had mine. But we kept it pretty civil.
 
I think I used your wiki guide while playing around on my 2nd choco. I wound up making one oustanding at treasure hunting. Then my 3rd was well rounded on all stats. The problem with wiki is any idiot can change it. Sch has a problem where one guy would change Kilaform information. Personally I think you have a right to be upset. One chocobo raising does not make someone an expert. and as it takes MONTHS to raise a chocobos, so doing this to someone has raised many birds would be nothing but a slap in the face. Good luck on your problem with this guy.
 
The problem I have with your theory is that you completely ignore basic genetics.

You state that all colours are affected by how you raise them, and that black chocobos are completely random.

Now, I have not raised 100 birds, so I can't give percents. I have raised 4 birds, currently raising my 5th (Lord knows why!) and my two coloured birds have been involved in probably around 3 or so other people's breedings. In fact, in the past, when you first started raising chocobos, I gave you the card to my blue male StormStallion and I think my green female StarStorm.

I do, however, have been involved in observing horse breeding business and taken a few genetic classes in University. While I do not feel that SE is as complex as genes, I figure that would use the very basics of genetics to program into chocobo breeding.

All chocobos I have raise have been high strength/endurance. They all were fed vomp carrots and the plans I chose were walk every day, carrying packages, delivering packages, etc. I use this method of raising for every single bird. I have gotten top strength and endurance with this method. I kept their affection level 100%. According to your theory, I -should- have had atleast one red bird in the mix. I have had two yellows, one blue and one green.

To get my blue male - I bred two blue birds.
To get my green female - I bred my blue male to a green female I bought. I chose the Honeymoon card which increased the chances of the chocobo taking after the female.

I have given my cards to people who have wanted coloured chocobos. Each person I have given a card to has gotten the colour they wanted, by breeding it to a chocobo of the same colour, or by choosing a honeymoon card which increases the chance of it taking after a parent, specifically which of the birds has the colour they want.

I am currently raising another bird who's parents are both black. Both the eggs came from ISNMs, so there are no other colours involved. They are pure blacks. If my chocobo turns a different colour than black in 7 days, I will be very surprised.
 
Im really not trying to be a douche or insult your work Urat, but really... all this over Chocobo Raising?

It just seems silly for him to provoke you and you to get so frustrated for somethng as small as chocobo raising. Its not that serious (My Opinion).

People will always disagree with you, some just for the sake of disagreeing. Don't let people like that get to you, it'll knock you off your square, which is what they really want.

Regardless if it was about chocobo raising or solving world hunger. The fact of the matter is that it's important to him and he's been harassed about it, he said, for about a year. Whether he's wrong or right in his theories, he's taken the time to try to prove them and written a guide with the large, requisite "this article is just a guide" disclaimer. So what if he's wrong? He deserves to have that very long guide that he obviously put lots of work into destroyed or modified out of spite?
 
While I don't agree with the editing on his guide, I do agree and support anyone and everyone who is adamantly against this guide. Even with the disclaimer, his guide is stating things as fact, and people are reading it and using it and wondering why it doesn't all work out. If you want to make a guide for something, you have to expect and be ready to handle criticism. Especially in the case where it's something that's hard to prove. Even more especially on a site like BG where all they care about are straight facts. People are never going to believe his guide, and they are going to shit on him for posting it.

So tl;dr version: vandalism bad, harsh repeated criticism good.
 
Im really not trying to be a douche or insult your work Urat, but really... all this over Chocobo Raising?

It just seems silly for him to provoke you and you to get so frustrated for somethng as small as chocobo raising. Its not that serious (My Opinion).

People will always disagree with you, some just for the sake of disagreeing. Don't let people like that get to you, it'll knock you off your square, which is what they really want.


I know is just a chocobo Raising theory guide, but Urat spend a lot of time working on it and try to help other to raise their chocobo better. Imagine yourself in the same shoes, and tell you that your work is useless, can't proof anything, won't work. How would you feel? adding insult to injury, editing someone hard work without the owner permission. Wouldn't you be pissed off if someone messed up your yr of works? Little things to you can be a really bigs things to other people, just like one person trash is another person treasure
 
How exactly was the guide edited? What was said?
 
Dude, seriously...

I understand you dislike me.

I also understand you very much disagree with my theory on chocobo coloring.

I really have no problem with that at all. To each their own, right?

Even if all you did was raise 1. Thats it, 1 bird, and base all of your reasoning against my theory on that 1 bird, against my 25 plus hundreds of stats sent to me by people to assist my theory.

Really, you believe what you wanna believe man, that's cool.

But.. this? Posting all over wiki that my theory is bullshit, when people even admitted it kind of supported it, messaging me with insulting and snide comments over how "butthurt" I am over you "destroying my years wort of work"?

You guys may be going, lolchocobo, but that isn't quite the point. I spent a very notable amount of time building a theory in the game, and now Curjos seems to consider himself some crusader against me,the antichrist of chocobo religions...

But you know what? Whatever, people seemed to disregard what you said and moved on, and I shrugged it off. With a user base of thousands, there's bound to be one or two douches running around screaming at you over nothing...

But now you've gone just a little too far dude, no seriously. I spent a lot of work on my guide to raising ( http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Breeders_Guide_by_Urat ), to provide new breeders a step by step guide to get a really decent bird for them to feel proud off. Unlike other guides that just told you what everything does, mine tells you how to use these tools effectivly.

Then you waltze in and stick this little snide comment up at the top of my page? Who the hell do you think you are man? I am tired of your insulting attitude, sticking your nose in everytime I make a chocobo related post.

Charitwo has been alerted, and I'd appreciate it if you just stopped. I am asking pleasently this time, and am trying to keep this as civil as possible. Before youhttp://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1011828
FFXI Final Fantasy XI Quetzalcoatl Daily News - Reply to Topic make any more comments like this, first go read the actual theory before assuming it hasn't changed any way at all in the past year since you last saw it. Then post your bird's stats on the section of the discussion page I created just for that for comparison to my theory.

Then maybe we can have an actual civil talk about whether or not your bird's stats prove or disprove my concept.

The first point I would like to make is that these quotations you are throwing out throughout this thread are untrue and are not quotes of anything I have previously said. I have never accused you of being "butthurt" (partially because I don't know why someone in the right mind would use such a statement) and I have never boasted about how I destroyed "many years of research" etc. The reason for this, Urat, is because frankly I don't care about you. It annoys me when you go around FFXIclopedia making all of these posts when you have no evidence behind it. You say you do, but I haven't seen any yet. Its not an unknown fact that you're grammatically challenged, Urat, but you really shouldn't use quotation marks when you're not quoting someone, it's kinda misleading, y'know?

This leads onto my next point. I did provide evidence to falsify your theory. You say that I only succeeded with raising 1 chocobo, thats all it took. You told me, that if your theory was applied, there would absolutely no chance the chocobo could be green. Anyone want to guess what colour it turned out to be? And yeah, I provided evidence. For those of you that don't know, this is how Urat took the news:

urat_abuse_message.jpg

The first thing I would like to mention about this image is that Urat is again quoting things I never said. I will admit that I called his theory "fanciful", but I never said he "knows nothing about testing", even though I admit to thinking it. I never insulted him. I raised a chocobo and kept a blog, applying Urat's theory of colouring to it, and I proved it wrong. The blog wasn't insulting, and any offence he took from it is his own problem. The reason he accused me of being insulting is that he was probably just pissed off because I disproved his theory. The thing that annoyed me about the things that he quoted there aren't even things I implied. He's just going to make me look like an arsehole.

And now I'm going to use a phrase you like using a lot, Urat. Get off you high horse. You said, and I quote (something that you did actually say, for reference see the first post of this thread):
Urat said:
and am trying to keep this as civil as possible
If that PM you seen me on FFXIclopedia is your idea of civil, then you have a very warped definition of the word. Stop going out to make me look like the bad guy in this. Admittedly I've said some things that may have been "snide", but nothing I've said has been genuinely insulting. All I've done is tested your theory and posted my findings.

It's less the chocobo raising, more the fact that he had the nerve to put such a snide comment on my own guide of all places. It could be anything, fishing, a leveling guide, chocobo raising just happened to by the subject.
I can see why you thought the comment was snide, and perhaps I could have been more tactful about how I went about it. But, at the end of the day, it needed to be said and I don't regret posting it (just how I said it). People go use this guide and expect to get results based on a theory that is wrong.

But yeah, maybe chocobo raiisng is a bit much to get worked over, but this guys been riding my ass for almost a year now >.<

Had to Blist him in game, block him here, on BG and am trying to on wiki. Temporarily unblocking him for this thread since he's gonna wanna reply, and it is unfair to ignore him in a flame directed right at him.

And now you start blowing everything out of proportion. The only time I sent you a /tell in game was before this whole mess started and I wanted you to explain your theory to me in person. Which you did. I then tried to send you a /tell after I published my blog to get your views on it, and then you blacklisted me. Thats your right as a player, but if you do insist on doing it please don't use it against me as though I've done something wrong when in reality it's you that's in the wrong. I've never spoke to you in game that would warrant you to blacklist me. And for the record, it has been going on for about a year but no constantly. It originally happened and last a few days, then stopped for a year and started again when I started getting emails for people on FFXIclopedia asking me to explain to them why they'd just spent a shitload of time and gil raising a chocobo exactly how it was stated in Urat's guide to get results that according to Urat's theory, should not have been possible. This prompted me to post that message on his guide, warning players that most of what he said is (and has proven to be) wrong.

Dani said:
Regardless if it was about chocobo raising or solving world hunger. The fact of the matter is that it's important to him and he's been harassed about it, he said, for about a year. Whether he's wrong or right in his theories, he's taken the time to try to prove them and written a guide with the large, requisite "this article is just a guide" disclaimer. So what if he's wrong? He deserves to have that very long guide that he obviously put lots of work into destroyed or modified out of spite?

I can assure you that I didn't "destroy" his theory out of "spite". I hardly even modified it. I posted a disclaimer at the top of the page. Once again, things have been blown way out of context. And it wasn't out of spite. It was because it's misleading information.

Vandoura said:
I know is just a chocobo Raising theory guide, but Urat spend a lot of time working on it and try to help other to raise their chocobo better. Imagine yourself in the same shoes, and tell you that your work is useless, can't proof anything, won't work. How would you feel? adding insult to injury, editing someone hard work without the owner permission. Wouldn't you be pissed off if someone messed up your yr of works? Little things to you can be a really bigs things to other people, just like one person trash is another person treasure

I would be very upset if someone messed up my works. If someone came along and provided evidence that a theory I proposed was wrong would also make me upset. What I wouldn't do, however, is exaggerate everything and take it out of context. Which is what Urat has done here. What I would do is I would acknowledge that the theory has been proved wrong, and I would stop going around pretending that it was right.

Now I'd like to put forward another scenario so people can see this from another perspective. Would you be upset if someone told you that they could greatly increase the likelihood that you could get something that you want, which would require to put forward a lot of time and effort, only for it to turn out to be false? I would (and was (I really wanted a blue chocobo)), and so did the players who emailed me asking for advice.

Lucki said:
How exactly was the guide edited? What was said?

The guide opened with a small section entitled "A note from the author". After that section, I created another small section entitled "A note from someone who knows what they're talking about", in which I posted (not word for word, I can't remember exactly and I'm guessing Urat's deleted it now) that there had been hard evidence to prove that Urat's theory had been disproved, and that anyone who uses the guide does so at their own risk (Admittedly, I was probably less civil than that the time, but thats the message that I put across).


I think the big issue here is that Urat has blown everything out of proportion to make me look like an arsehole. I've said it already and I'll say it again to clarify, I guess I should have rephrased what I said but I still stand by the point I was trying to get across, and I'll more than gladly do it again. Its unfair and irresponsible to post stuff that isn't true.
 
The guide opened with a small section entitled "A note from the author". After that section, I created another small section entitled "A note from someone who knows what they're talking about", in which I posted (not word for word, I can't remember exactly and I'm guessing Urat's deleted it now) that there had been hard evidence to prove that Urat's theory had been disproved, and that anyone who uses the guide does so at their own risk (Admittedly, I was probably less civil than that the time, but thats the message that I put across).

That second section has no business existing in a guide. Guides, as far as I know, on FFXIclopedia, have disclaimers at the top stating plainly that they are guides written by non-staff and as such, reflect only the experiences and opinions of the person writing them.

Like any Wiki, there is an entire section called "Discussion" (it's up there at the top, to the right of the "Edit this article" tab) where you can have your say from "someone who knows what they're talking about".

Hard evidence or not, editing the creation of someone else's personal guide without their consent is a wiki no-no. Sure, you *can* do it, but you *shouldn't*.


I think the big issue here is that Urat has blown everything out of proportion to make me look like an arsehole. I've said it already and I'll say it again to clarify, I guess I should have rephrased what I said but I still stand by the point I was trying to get across, and I'll more than gladly do it again. Its unfair and irresponsible to post stuff that isn't true.

Again, it's equally unfair and irresponsible to edit what amounts to an Op-Ed piece written by a user simply because you think the person is miseducating the masses. You can ask for clarification on sources, which is difficult to do if he's the sole source; you can ask for empirical data, which if he's unwilling to give, will in show his quality of research.
 
Yeah, I didn't "destroy his page out of spite" or any other obscene over exaggeration already posted.
 
Yeah, I didn't "destroy his page out of spite" or any other obscene over exaggeration already posted.

Ah, ok.

Well, we know Urat's a mite sensitive anyway.
 
Hard evidence or not, editing the creation of someone else's personal guide without their consent is a wiki no-no. Sure, you *can* do it, but you *shouldn't*.

Touché. I wasn't aware that it was a big deal - there was an edit button there and I used it. I will (and have taken) responsibility for that.

Again, it's equally unfair and irresponsible to edit what amounts to an Op-Ed piece written by a user simply because you think the person is miseducating the masses. You can ask for clarification on sources, which is difficult to do if he's the sole source; you can ask for empirical data, which if he's unwilling to give, will in show his quality of research.

Although I'm willing to accept that I shouldn't have edited his guide, I think its important that people know there is evidence and clarification that shows his research is incorrect. I didn't edit it because I thought, I did so because I had proof. So in that respect I don't think I was behaving unfairly or irresponsibly.
 
I didn't edit it because I thought, I did so because I had proof.

Good point, my apologies, and as you got my drift as well, I'll just add that I have and had no beef with you, just the manner in which you'd offered your proof.
 
Heres what should've happened....

"Note: When applying the theories discussed in this guide to avoid a green chocobo, a green chocobo was my result. Use this guide at your own risk."

Everything else...

The long edits, the PMs, the flame, subsequent posts (including this one)

... were unnecessary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top