Dancer subs?

[xKronox]

Actually, Dancer is a pretty good job to level past 75.

ITT: Misconceptions of FFXI's level cap.

 

[Jojojo]

I still don't see the point of /nin on dnc. TP is calculated after the delay reduction from Dual Wield II, so faster daggers does not necessarily mean faster TP gain. And it's not like you'll ever be getting hate to necessitate Utsusemi, unless you're Cure-master 9000.

I say eat sushi and go dnc/sam with a joyeuse. Yeah, I said it.

 

[shizzznit]

lots of /nin suggestions but only 1 for /sam? As Jojojo said /nin does absolutely nothing for your tp-gain unless you are off handing a joyeuse, it seems most of the thread is directed through leveling up so im going to rule the joyeuse out. Unlike nin, /sam acutally boosts ur TP gain, if TP gain is your priority like many people say here, then sub something that will actually boost it:
/sam - meditate, store TP, zanshin
/war - double attack
hell even /drg - attack bonus for those 0's you might hit and jumps and wyvern earring
Sure i would never sub /drg but it still usually gives more bonuses than the stats from your other dagger will give you.

not saying that you shouldn't have /nin leveled, it will always have its use but by no means is it THE BEST sub. I went /nin to 60, helped bounce hate between shadows but once i had access to meditate i never went back. Hate is usually not an issue at that point, dnc cures allegedly produce less enmity than regular cures and a lot of curing is done by sambas which does not build onto your own hate.

Also on the topic on WS, people are too quick in ruling out that dancers should not use their weaponskills. You have reverse flourish for a reason. Build your 5 steps, drop your samba and top up your party. WS for 10tp returned, reverse for another 60 putting you back at 70. On colibri which are weak to daggers, Building Flourish + DE can do quite respectable damage. People have claimed that the results of building flourish can rival the damage of SATA, though i haven't seen such great results myself, i can still hit about 600 consistently without having trouble curing my party. Id say 600 damage every now and then beats sitting around at 200tp. Oh and pop in meditate and you can do so much more.

Well yeah, my verdict would be /sam or /nin only if you have a joyeuse. I would not go dnc/sam with joyeuse because we cannot occasionally step twice

 

[Tim Wakefield]

I still don't see the point of /nin on dnc. TP is calculated after the delay reduction from Dual Wield II, so faster daggers does not necessarily mean faster TP gain. And it's not like you'll ever be getting hate to necessitate Utsusemi, unless you're Cure-master 9000.

I say eat sushi and go dnc/sam with a joyeuse. Yeah, I said it.

The dude is level 23...

Off topic but: Only 1 of the 7 merits were active per 10 levels to a certain point that i don't remeber.

Yeah you're right, I was just making a point.

 

[Strid]

I don't think dnc sub is very viable in endgame stuff.

It's a helluva great fix for the Omerta Pathos. It's also just plain handy to be honest. The only job I have to 75 at this time is NIN and most everything I do, I do /DNC. I've found it to be the best SJ for most anything, even tanking (for me). Forget about in Meripos though but it does allow me to merit, solo, as well as any party, exp wise, before the burn craze hit.

Now, over 75, the only usefulness I see of Dancer, atm, is in melee burns on Gods and things like that. However, only 1 per melee party, max. They could bring a lot more to the table than I'm thinkin' but I've yet to witness it. Would probably be a good tool for Dynamis in the same way but I dunno, I don't do Dynamis, it's pretty lame. It's basically a tool to do more with less and it works very well but for some things I just see it plain usless as a main.

More on the original topic though. I soloed from 1-29. I went with /MNK until I could use the first set of Windhurst CP daggers (I think 20?). After I got those I went /NIN not because of any TP bonus or anything but for the extra accuracy and lower delay, more hits = faster HP drain. Also, soloing, Utsusemi rocks socks when you get it at 24. From 30-37 I partied most of it and still went /NIN. Mainly I did this for the ACC. bonus from the second dagger but I also did a helluva lot of tanking. The only other sub I could fathom bein' useful is WAR after double attack but honestly, fightin' ITs, go for the extra accuracy, which is guaranteed, rather than a proc. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[Sneakypants]

Is there a job that cannot solo Sea Horror? <.<

 

[Kerowynn]

Is there a job that cannot solo Sea Horror? <.<

I don't think that sleep or bind stick very well so blm might have a tough time, but I haven't tried it enough to tell for sure. Unless you count going to answer the phone while someone agros it and drags it up top on the boat and you come back and find yourself dead as a "solo attempt." h34r:

 

[Takumifujiwara]

I've still yet to get my /dnc to 37. But the reason I would like to is for soloing purposes to skill up on my SAM with a soboro. I know I can /nin which I do, but /dnc makes it more entertaining and Hasso or Seigen shouldn't affect the DNC timers on abilities, but don't quote me on that because I haven't tested to know for sure. Regardless my TP is endless anyway so I like the idea. Plus hey it might save me the cost of Utsu tools, even though they are cheap. Would love to get my parry to cap on SAM.

 

[Tyrath]

And it's not like you'll ever be getting hate to necessitate Utsusemi, unless you're Cure-master 9000.

Wrong. Dancers are great at taking hate if the tank ever needs a second to get shadows back up or get healed and whatnot. I've had many pts with dnc back up tank.

This is mor low levels to mid 50s though.

 

[Olrox]

Yeah with /nin I could easily animated flourish to grab hate if needed. I would never even think of sam as viable for dnc. at least not until 70+ after I could equip joy and use meditate, before then its worthless... ZANSHIN LOL. you're funny. and I only took dnc to 37, so i don't feel below 37 dnc should be subbing sam at all.

On the note of end game dnc, sometimes I go war/dnc to dynamis bcuz I get sick of not having enough healers for all the DD pts, I just cure myself and my other DD pt members.

 

[Euphacent]

Just so you don't get the wrong idea about DNC...it doesn't matter. You'll NEVER be WSing in anything that you're taking stuff seriously in. You'll want to save *ALL* your TP for dances.

I'd disagree. There will sometimes be really good parties (after you get dancing edge and have reverse flourish) where you will be able weapon skill every few fights. You will reach a point where you'll be sitting at 300% tp for way too long and it's going to waste. I have a few merits in dagger on my dnc, and when using building flourish with dancing edge while fighting colibris in the 60's, I would break 600-800 damage somewhat frequently, pulling the mobs off the wars after they would rampage most of the time. Just make sure that you've you get your level 3 building flourish set that you get your finishing moves back up to 4 or 5 before weapon skilling... that way you can reverse flourish and get tp back in case something goes wrong right after you use your tp (ie, the mob decides you should die).

However, I would only weapon skill against mobs that are actually weak to daggers or are "soft" in general.

 

[Euphacent]

I still don't see the point of /nin on dnc. TP is calculated after the delay reduction from Dual Wield II, so faster daggers does not necessarily mean faster TP gain. And it's not like you'll ever be getting hate to necessitate Utsusemi, unless you're Cure-master 9000.

I say eat sushi and go dnc/sam with a joyeuse. Yeah, I said it.

dnc pulls quite a bit of hate because of dot+heals and usually a lack of stacked -enmity gear. I partied with two decked out soboro sams in the 60's that were both tanking and I would often times pull the mob off them from a few cures while wearing raven hose or whatever. I'd attribute it to the physical dot a dnc puts out versus no physical dot of a rdm or whm. Also, dnc gets hate from each dance performed, and also from stuns, which any decent dnc will be doing a lot.

It's been said before, BUT.... I also end up pulling all the time, and I would definitely die a lot more without shadows.. fast imps and colibri.

 

[Lavi]

I myself have recently taken up leveling the new dancer. Now I've leveled quite a few jobs for a little bit, and aside form monk, never took any far, simply because I lost interest after lv 10ish.

Now I was a bit skeptical at first when I did the dancer flag, but after level 5, I was hooked. Dancer is freakin' awesome! :shok:

From the ridiculous infinite hp due to tp based healing magic, to the fact that we are every position in the party at once, tank, DD, healer... Though of course I've heard we can't tank well later on due to weaker armor...

Other than that, I've come to realize that dancer is an overall wicked job to level past 15. But now I've just passed my 20s, and am faced with a horrible predicament...

My ninja and warrior are level 10. My monk is level 38...

Um...

So now I need to know. If I get really good accuracy gear, and have monk subbed for martial arts (increased HTH speed) plus monks HTH acc+, will I be able to sub my monk all the way to 75? Like really, Utsesumi isn't that big of a deal when you think about it. And sure, we have a slightly lower acc...

But is it viable? Will it work?

Second...

Does anyone here have the hand to hand weapon of trials on them? Can dancers learn Asuran Fists? If not I don;t have much of a choice and have to go with /ninja later anywho u.u

I just really want to avoid having to level a second job. and please don't reply your ideas if you don't know much about dnc. Only people that really understand the job and are taking all aspects into perspective please.

Finally. Do you get more TP dual wielding daggers, then using HTH? Just an afterthought =P

Please no super flaming, this is a question, not a statement. I'm not saying dnc/mnk is better than dnc/nin or anything. I just want advice as to whether or not I should take the time to get lv 37 nin. thanks :biggrin:

Sanoske already said something about it, but it probably just went by you and you didn't notice. This isn't a flame, but a good piece of advice so take it as it is: Level your subjob. Both your NIN and WAR are level 10 and MNK is 38, so you're missing out on quite a lot of stats, spells, job abilities and/or job traits which are extremely useful. For instance, in 5 more levels(LVL 15) your warrior gets access to berserk which is hands down one of the best abilities in game. It gives +25% attack, -25% defense which is extremely huge for anything and your MNK could have already had access to it at level 30. The subjob also gives added stat boosts to which you may think are useless, but check the AH for differences in prices between NQ and HQ items (use rings for example). You're looking at tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of gil people pay every day just to get an extra MND or STR, something you can get it all just by leveling your sub. Again, take it as you will, but those few levels can make a huge impact and already have on your performance as a player.

Anyways, back to the topic. I don't personally know much about DNC, it's only level 3-4 now, but I will comment on subjobs. For starters, as someone already mentioned, the only job that really effects TP gain is SAM. The delay reduction recieved by Dual Wield and Martial Arts job traits reduces the delay; however, TP is calculated on that reduced delay so you'll be getting less TP. TP is actually roughly proportional to delay so weapon choice also doesn't matter for that reason. In this regard, H2H and Daggers are both good choices, but DNC has higher dagger skill which means more skill in dagger. Each skill level is equivalent to 1 attack and 1 accuracy at low levels so it's important to chose higher skill weapons a majority of the time. Because of the above, many would chose daggers, but some still chose H2H with MNK sub at low levels. It's not a bad choice, they get access to Martial Arts I at level 1 to reduce delay and at low levels, DNC can do decent damage (any job can) so the boost is an acceptable trade off for lower skill. Some also have merits in dagger, sword or H2H so they can make the choice without any losses as well.

Personally, for a sub, I'd only consider SAM, NIN and DRG. DRG at low levels gives accuracy job trait and attack bonus as well (I forget exact levels) plus jump for an additional attack round is pretty nice. SAM gives store TP which can boost your TP gained per hit and at higher level, Meditate. You also have access to third eye, but a single guaranteed parry isn't ground breaking in my opinion. NIN is my personal favorite, it adds survivability to any job (Utsusemi) and Dual Wield which will allow you to equip two daggers at a lower combined delay. DW will allow you to equip more +acc/att daggers for stats which can make up for a bit of the low skill on DNC skill levels. Just don't sub it pre-24, the level you can start using Utsu-Ichi, before that point, dual wield isn't worth it in my opinion. I'd stick to another job like DRG.

Most players prefer NIN, not just on DNC. Utsusemi is the single best spell in the game that negates a large portion of damage especially in experience. For that reason, people sub NIN, they can avoid taking much if not all damage and have litteraly no down time attributed to the main source of down time: Low MP. In the case of DNC, as many dancers have stated, they pull hate quite frequently so the need really is there for them to have some good defense especially since they're rather squishy.

In regards to sub THF, I see little point in THF sub. SA+TA are useless, they can only give normal crits. Unless for some reason, THF gives access to a WS that DNC doesn't or they combine SA+TA, I don't see much use especially when a DNC rarely uses WS.

 

[Euphacent]

DNC and DRG both get accuracy bonus 1 at level 30. I'd sub war until utsusemi is available.

 

[Urat]

Wow, lots of feedback, thanks everyone. I think dnc/mnk goes good to lv 25ish, then dnc/nin to high 70s.

Because dnc/nin and and dnc/mnk don;t get much more tp than one or the other...

Perhaps switching back and forth between the two, depending on which has the current better weapon. Sometimes the current HTH weapon is way better than the current daggers.

Nonetheless, by the time I hit 75, I'm sure dancer will be figured out.

Here's an idea for insane damage for a dancer at 75...

building flourish>>>wild flourish >>> eviscration >>> ninjutsu spell...

One man magic burst =P

You can also ask members to notify you 5 secs before they WS, so you can hit the mob with wild flourish. finally, having a 75 dancer is a very easy and fast way to break your weapon skill quest, seeing as how at lv 60 you can do instant one man skillchains. Just go out and solo for a bit. Every time you WS you'll get 3 points. 1 point for wild flourish (confirmed to do this) and another 2 for adding a lv 2 WS afterwards..

 

[shizzznit]

there is a possible use for thf subjob. Sneak attack stacks with any steps and several flourishes, allowing you to have a 100% guaranteed evadown, defdown, stun or gravity. Thought i personally wouldn't sub thf for this minuscule bonus, some ppl claim it would have use in HNMs.

i dont see where you will find HTH weapons that are better for DNC than daggers past the lvl20 range. All the daggers past then give rather decent accuracy/attack bonus stats on top of significantly higher skill levels, dont sub mnk. a dnc/nin will get more tp than a dnc/mnk cuase ur accuracy will be crap as /mnk assuming ur using h2h.

also the time it takes for you to setup building > wild > ws, is too long, takes too much tp and finishing moves to be efficient. You would do much better chaining back to back DE's for detonation, or building > step > ws > reverse > ws. But of course, the combo you listed is pretty and is good for showing off.

dnc's are also unable to create lvl2 skillchains via dagger, and well you woudn't need to break the latent on any other weapon.
*K correction, dancers can create fragmentation via shadowstich, but, thats just so uncool

 

[Guyfox]

Since you will most likely be a support healer you want to set yourself up so you gain as much TP as quickly as possible. I don't think dnc/mnk with H2H can gain TP as quickly as dnc/thf or dnc/drg (for the +5% haste piece). You may not have enough attack to actually do damage to mobs with higher defense. I remember partying with a dancer in the late 60s who often times hit for 0 on certain mobs, thus gaining 0 tp and being unproductive.

At 75 I hope that DNC gets some serious subtle blow gear. What good would a DNC be on bosses like Tiamat and other where you really don't want to feed the boss any TP? Like was stated earlier as soon as SE gives DNC the gear it is due things will be a lot better for the job.

Last, if you ever think of soloing as /dnc it would seem that fast hitting jobs like monk, thief and nin would benefit most out of the drain samba / curing waltz and such. I know a mnk/dnc can solo ODS, a KSNM30. Just my feeling thus far.

Bilun

 

[pchan]

I don't think DNC 's usefullness should be tested on mob that drop crap for them like HNMs. If DNC is your job then wtf are you doing in an HNM shell ? In a dynamis shell ? in a limbus shell ? etc. The only event that could interest DNC atm is Sea (love torque ?) and maybe einherjar for various r/e items. So the question is are dnc usefull there. I can see them being usefull is sea as you spend a lot of time there killing tough-vt mobs, also they can gravity jailers.

 

[Lucki]

I know a mnk/dnc can solo ODS, a KSNM30.

 

[Zaltana]

impressive video. unimpressive music. i lost count how many times he changed gear and used meds. i think it would be more accurate to say an extremely well equipped MNK/DNC can solo ODS.