Don't be a white mage if...

Kat said:
If you're meleeing as a whm, get another damn job!!! I cannot believe you people who think you can melee as a whm!!!

Unless you are specifically in a skillup party, or helping on a mission or quest where you know you can melee and not kill your party or yourself and cause MORE downtime by being stupid, stand back and heal. If you're not healing then rest. One tick of you resting is better than you trying to hit a mob (and probably missing) or hitting for what? mebbe 20 hp tops?

Good grief, gimme a break!!! Are you up and coming whm's that damn dense to think that you meleeing is honestly making a difference vs. healing for a tick or two? :evil:
Click to expand...

... that should read healing/resting for a tick or two?
 
in adition:

-If you do not Haste, or debuff where called for.
-You do not have light and Dark staff post 51 ofcourse.
 
whm is definately NOT my cup of tea; bst is.
So I am stuck in a catch 22. I have to play whm
in order to play bst.

I hope I'm not busting any rules when I'm leveling my sub.
I only did one party as a whm in the dunes. I did a decent
job considering it was my very first time as a main healer in
a party. Oh, and I'm a Galka so they must've been hard up
to invite me.

I used astrals, pies, and juices and did nothing but Cure
and between fights protectra and some Cure II's.

Wasn't the best pt but it was ok.
 
Duffman said:
whm is definately NOT my cup of tea; bst is.
So I am stuck in a catch 22. I have to play whm
in order to play bst.

I hope I'm not busting any rules when I'm leveling my sub.
I only did one party as a whm in the dunes. I did a decent
job considering it was my very first time as a main healer in
a party. Oh, and I'm a Galka so they must've been hard up
to invite me.

I used astrals, pies, and juices and did nothing but Cure
and between fights protectra and some Cure II's.

Wasn't the best pt but it was ok.
Click to expand...

Heh I have been fond of exp my wtm as a Wtm/Bst and preying on decents and evens. Works fairly well but if things go bad then they really go bad. :P
 
Ok, sure, if I can somehow sit down and rest for 20 seconds mid-fight and somehow not have someone dying, then I'll do that. Otherwise, I'm gonna be standing up between spells, because the time spent sitting down and standing up for no benefit could wind up with someone dead. And the 150 MP I spend on raise is a heck of a lot worse than the 0 MP I get from resting for less than a tick.

As a Mithra, I have a fairly high hit rate for a WHM, even on IT++ mobs. Does that mean I'll wear +DEX or sniper's rings instead of electrum rings or astral rings? Hell no! Does that mean I'll pick a high-damage weapon over one with good mage stats? Again, no! When I hit 51 with WHM (gonna be a while as I'm gonna spend most of my time fishing and crafting for a while), am I gonna not switch to a dark staff for healing and a light staff for curing? NO! I'll still use equipment swap macros for my spells. I'll still rest when I need MP. I'll still keep Haste and Regen on everyone that needs it (so no, I'm not gonna haste the BLM unless he can give me a good reason to do so). I'll still make sure no one in my party dies. I'm just gonna be up on the front lines whacking away while I do it.
 
To uiderstand FF you must understand its rythms Sethala. It doesn't matter if you rest for 20 seconds or for 1 second if you happen to be resting at the moment of tickage. There's no build up, it's just a set timer in the game. You should be able to rest just before 1 tick, and get up right after the second. Any tank that can't survive that long from full HP is crap.
 
Oh, really? That I didn't know... I'll need to run some tests on my own soon. As far as I knew, you had to rest for 20 seconds to get one tick, then every tick is 10 seconds after that. And of course, resting for 20 seconds mid-fight, not counting time spent sitting down and standing up, is gonna be far worse to the party than the 20-some MP I'd recover. If that's true I'm going to rethink how I act as a WHM.

But if that's not true (and I'm pretty sure it's false), then my points still stand.

Also, I'm not saying that every WHM should melee. For some people, it's just too much to think about in the middle of a chaotic fight. If you can handle it, do it, but if not, just relax and stay on the sidelines.

Finally, before someone says it, I have only died once because of being a melee WHM, and it's because the THF's SATA somehow misfired and landed on me. And I was standing right to the side of the mob, nowhere near the back end, and the THF wasn't by me at all... Now I know to not start meleeing until after the THF does SATA.
 
It appears we're both wrong. my tick theory might work for HP but it seems to vary little for MP. On the other hand, I measured it at 16 seconds, not 20, including time getting up and down. As well additional ticks are 8 seconds not 10.
Now, with my 5 clear minds, I'm starting off at 28 mp on the very first click. Let's say on an IT my staff could hit 3-4 dmg in that time maybe once if I'm lucky. With 28 MP I could cast for example drain which could deal 200+ dmg and still have MP to spare. Now that's without even Dark Staff. A WHM/BLM with Dark Staff and clear mind through subjob should get at least that much per click. More than enough for a Cure 2. That 90 points of health you're pissing away for 4 points of damage. If you have light staff that's well over 100.

And becaue what, a tank can't survive without being healed for 16 seconds? That's the strangest thing, because I usually spend quite a bit of time resting during fights and somehow managing for resting to get anyone killed. Afterall... if they take a few criticals or a special, I can just stand up. Most of the time they don't and I can rest away. As well a good RDM should be throwing around support heals to allow me to heal more.
 
On a side note, I could swear before that my click theory worked. I'll be testing it under different job, subjob day of week and equip combos when I have spare time here and there. It seemed to hold true for me befeore but it's possible it's been patched out or it was lag related(not likely)... or there's just a lot more factors than I have considered. E,g. maybe spells like refresh also alter thje MP regen timers. I'll have to report on this later.
 
As a WHM(I would think this applys for BLM and SMN as well) if you are not casting spells you are medding. Stop bitching about it and get your ass on the ground.
 
Alright, I see your point. And if I'm low on MP and someone else can cover healing duty for me while I rest, I'll do that instead of melee. But if I'm near full MP and/or no one else can cover for me, that 5 damage melee hit will mean more than the 0 MP I'd get from resting for less than one tick.

And I didn't mean going 5+ seconds between spells. I mean sometimes I'd get to sneak a melee hit in between waiting for the cooldown timer for cures (if memory serves, there's a 5-ish second between Cure 1's, and I think an even longer cooldown for the higher level cures, so I've got a little bit of time to get in a melee hit).

Anyway, my point is, sometimes there's a delay between spells that's less time than it takes for me to sit down and stand up again. That's the point I'd be meleeing in.
 
Too lazy to read all three pages, but whoever makes the next "Don't be a <insert job> if..." thread is gonna have the worst MPK in the history of vanadiel. One so bad that GMs caught up in it are gonna die too.
 
also remember if your only gonne melee for 4-5 dmg per hit you should not melee at all. All your gonna end up doing is giving the mob extra TP for that special attack you dont need. Bomb toss anyone?
 
Oh yeah... forgot about giving the mob TP... ^^;

Hm, maybe if I sub MNK for Subtle Blow, I can still melee... >.>

jk :P


Seriously, I hadn't really thought about the TP bit... I think I'll still melee some to level club skill, but only on mobs that don't have deadly or super-annoying WSs.
 
Sorry to interrupt such a lively topic but I don't even know what my avatar is from! Shame on me!

But if you like maids, boobs and overall fun : check out Mahoromatic Automatic Maiden ^_^


As someone else pitpointed : freaking cast HASTE post 40!!!
 
Farys said:
Sorry to interrupt such a lively topic but I don't even know what my avatar is from! Shame on me!

But if you like maids, boobs and overall fun : check out Mahoromatic Automatic Maiden ^_^


As someone else pitpointed : freaking cast HASTE post 40!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, and on the Thief.
 
Actually, THF is probably one of the lowest on my hate list. A THFs main damage is from SATA, and Haste doesn't boost that at all. True, he'll get more TP faster, but a THF should be getting TP plenty fast anyway, and he'll still have to wait for his SC partner unless he's doing solo WSs.

Anyway, my usual haste order:

-NIN or WAR/NIN (Always, always, always haste NIN blink tanks)
-WAR, DRK, RNG, SAM if he does solo WSs.
-All others.

I might be forgetting a job or two that can be hasted at the same level as WAR, DRK, and RNG, though.

My reasoning:

As far as I know, WAR, DRK, and RNG are the only DDs that don't rely on "outside" sources for damage. DRGs have wyverns, SAMs need someone to SC with, THFs use SATA, etc. Giving one of those people Haste doesn't help as much, because only a portion of their total damage is improved. For example, if you Haste a DRG, only the DRGs melee damage gets improved, wyvern damage is the same and doesn't give as much as a boost as Hasting a DRK would (DRKs usually outdamage DRGs when not including wyvern damage).

However, I rarely follow a straight order, that's just a guideline. I usually haste whoever needs the most help getting TP for the SC.
 
Sethala said:
Actually, THF is probably one of the lowest on my hate list. A THFs main damage is from SATA, and Haste doesn't boost that at all. True, he'll get more TP faster, but a THF should be getting TP plenty fast anyway, and he'll still have to wait for his SC partner unless he's doing solo WSs.

Anyway, my usual haste order:

-NIN or WAR/NIN (Always, always, always haste NIN blink tanks)
-WAR, DRK, RNG, SAM if he does solo WSs.
-All others.

I might be forgetting a job or two that can be hasted at the same level as WAR, DRK, and RNG, though.

My reasoning:

As far as I know, WAR, DRK, and RNG are the only DDs that don't rely on "outside" sources for damage. DRGs have wyverns, SAMs need someone to SC with, THFs use SATA, etc. Giving one of those people Haste doesn't help as much, because only a portion of their total damage is improved. For example, if you Haste a DRG, only the DRGs melee damage gets improved, wyvern damage is the same and doesn't give as much as a boost as Hasting a DRK would (DRKs usually outdamage DRGs when not including wyvern damage).

However, I rarely follow a straight order, that's just a guideline. I usually haste whoever needs the most help getting TP for the SC.
Click to expand...

Not to start a Drg/Drk war, but I have never been outdamaged by a DRK, even with my wyvern not out. Don't knock us down the hate list. Plus, I'm usually the one waiting for thieves to catch up to me in TP.
 
Interesting. I've never been outdamaged by a DRG, unless you include wyvern damage (61 DRK here); I use a log parser for most parties and I check that at the end of each exp party (if I remember to turn it on, at least ^^; )

Anyway, I just gave that list as a sort of guideline, an order based on my experience in the party. Not much unlike a RDM's refresh list. That's who I'd haste at the start of the party, during the first few fights. After I get a feel for the party, I focus more on making sure the people that have trouble getting TP get Haste over those that are waiting for the other person.
 
Yeah, I run a parser too lol I guess we just both strive to be the best. I know my armour is top notch. I actually love having DRK in my party. I think a good DRK should do less damage than me if they are using their Absorb spells right lol The time it takes them to cast a spell, I have 2 hits in. DRK undoubtably helps everyone out in the party.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top