Don't touch my junk bro.

[Hexx]

I miss just taking off a belt and shoes, emptying my pockets and having them scan my luggage and then walking through a metal detector. I'd rather do that anyday. I work in corrections. Inmates and Prisoners get patted down and strip searched all the time because it's part of keeping a safe and secure facility to find contraband. Free citizens should not be subject to these same pat searches and strip searches.

You know what we do to visitors, attorneys and other civilians that enter the facility? They walk through a metal detector and empty pockets to make sure no cell phones, weapons, tobacco or drugs (or other contraband) are brought in. We don't pat search or strip search civilians because it would be an invasion of their privacy. There should be no difference when getting on a freaking plane for a trip.

Pat searches, but even more so - strip searches, are an outright invasion of personal privacy and personal space of free U.S. citizens. Regardless off whether they are being abused or not.

When your flight gets blown up let me know k oh wait, you wont be able to, you'll be dead. People complain up and down when someone manages to sneak something onto a flight, yet cry foul when they are getting patted down? It's a give and take situation here folks. A balance must be struck in this case, but how?

Edit: Lets face it, these terrorists get more and more creative the stricter our security measures get. How long before they start shoving explosives into certain "areas" and we are required to submit to occasional cavity searches? Would you be willing to submit to one in the name of safely flying on a plane?

 

[Morcheeba]

Question;

When going to a large stadium concert, do you not get patted down by security? We do here. All your possessions are gone through as well. And it matters no what your age, gender or race is. You have a ticket and want in? You go through the same rigorous search everyone else does. And it's no different if one of those security guards were to take it too far and accost someone, they'd have hell to pay.

For an airport considering all the security breaches there have been and what they've ultimately cost the citizens of the US I can see where pat downs could be important, strip searches only when really deemed necessary. And if someone has caused that much suspicion to call for a strip search they should be brought through to a private room without the risk of the public knowing and run through the process.

I was sure I heard these pat downs were just to bring awareness to the lackadaisical approach at airport security even after all the major issues terrorists have caused over the last decade. More-so a temporary approach in the hopes of upping security across the board.

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

People bitch there's not enough security and they can't even feel safe boarding flights, but when meassures are taken to provide the security they want so badly and they themselves have to bow to these meassures it's too much an inconvenience and breach of privacy so they complain about that.

If you don't want this level of security that's fine imo, no room to bitch about the people who get through the system that has already been proved a failure if you're not willing to at least run with a new system for a while to work out kinks.

Don't get me wrong, strip searches as a general rule of thumb are a tad bit extreme, but not complete unnecessary in all cases. And as far as children are concerned, sorry guys but people have been known to use children as much worse than mules.

 

[Morcheeba]

When your flight gets blown up let me know k oh wait, you wont be able to, you'll be dead. People complain up and down when someone manages to sneak something onto a flight, yet cry foul when they are getting patted down? It's a give and take situation here folks. A balance must be struck in this case, but how?

Bah you fucking summed up my post before I finished writing it!! BASTAGE

 

[Ecks]

I think they should be using better search equipment that doesn't require physically touching someone. You can physically grab someone once you get a ding or see something that looks suspicious, do your pat search and strip searches then. Let everyone else who just wants to travel normally alone if they pass the inspection.

I've seen these x-ray type machines they have.. pretty much shows your junk to the world or anyone who can see the screen. I'm sorry, but there's only certain people I allow to see my man parts and that's usually before nailing them. If the TSA gets a peek at my goods, they should be paying me a fair rate at the very least.

 

[Morcheeba]

Until they come up with better search equipment how do you suppose they go about processing people to filter out the possible threats?

Obviously what they were doing before wasn't working. Or rather wasn't working well enough.

Something has got to give. And if they only way they can almost guarantee their customers safety is by processing everyone thoroughly, should we not be thankful that something is being done?

No one likes change, that's how I see things. And I get the intrusive feelings it leaves people with, but again, what better way is there?

 

[Raesvelg]

I think they should be using better search equipment that doesn't require physically touching someone. You can physically grab someone once you get a ding or see something that looks suspicious, do your pat search and strip searches then. Let everyone else who just wants to travel normally alone if they pass the inspection.

I've seen these x-ray type machines they have.. pretty much shows your junk to the world or anyone who can see the screen. I'm sorry, but there's only certain people I allow to see my man parts and that's usually before nailing them. If the TSA gets a peek at my goods, they should be paying me a fair rate at the very least.

The thing is, the scanning machines that can see your junk are the alternative to the pat-down searches.

Are they necessary?

Yes and no.

It's a complicated issue, unfortunately, and not as simple as "scanning is wrong, pat downs are wrong, terrorists will get past it anyway", nor as simple as "scanning is good, pat downs are good, these things will save lives". There are pros and cons to both sides of the issue, and we're going to be working to find the proper balance for a while yet.

The goal ultimately is to make it as difficult as possible to sneak a bomb or other weapon onto an aircraft, while simultaneously making the process of getting through security as painless as possible. The issue we're confronting now is people concerned over body modesty issues, and a small number of incidents involving unprofessional or undertrained TSA agents.

For the first problem, it's a question of attitude. It is not a question of how often you fly, but whether the concept of having your naughty bits revealed to strangers bothers you. In my case? Not so much. To be honest, I imagine that after the 1000th time or so, you just get bored with genitalia. I don't think the guy (or girl) manning the machine wants to see my junk any more than I want him to see it, and it's not like the machines keep records. (Outside of test mode, where they do. Yes, I'm aware.) I have an old friend from high school whose job requires him to travel quite a bit (typically at least once a week), and the new screening procedures, while annoying, don't have him up in arms and planning the destruction of the TSA.

Then again, he's a Republican.

The second part of the problem, of unprofessional or undertrained TSA agents, is arguably simpler. Improve the training, and impose draconian regulations on misbehavior. Like a "you fuck up once, we fire you, and file charges" kind of regulation. That would cut the already modest number of incidents down substantially.

Sneaking a bomb through a metal detector is ultimately rather trivial. That's why these new regulations have been put into place, because some bright boy figured out a method he thought would work, and enacted it. The only reason he failed was because he was (or he had) a shitty bomb maker. It is perhaps a small blessing that figuring out ways to defeat security is easier than actually manufacturing a custom explosive device that will actually work.

It's easy to say that the regulations are a violation of your rights, but there are 289 whose lives were saved by a bomb-maker's ineptitude who might feel differently.

 

[CidBahamut]

Indecent exposure and sexual assault aren't groovy things to implement as security procedures, so how's this for a happy medium?

We can still have all the genetalia scanning devices still in place to check for weapons and bombs and all that, but instead of the TSA agents ogling everyone we let a computer do it. Build up all that face-recognition style technology to recognize out of place items that might be cause for concern. If it spots something it lets the security folk know and indicates whereabout the questionable object is so they can then perform a more thorough search. This way normal folk don't have to put their genetalia on display and don't have to endure groping either. Groping gets reserved only for folks who've triggered the machine, or heck we could just limit the display to only show when something's been detected.

We can do this. We can get the security benefits without the indecency and the searches that would get you labeled as a sex offender. The technology is out there, we just have to develop it and refine it. Sure it'll cost a lot to make it happen but I'd prefer that to this extremely shady operation that borders on government sanctioned sexual harassment we have in place now.

 

[Morcheeba]

When you guys refer to it as groping, I have to keep coming back to the whole concert/sporting event thing.

Why is it anymore appropriate? I never hear anyone bitch about having to get patted down in the line up for Taylor Swift. You know? So wtf? They're airports... they've become crazy security breach targets.

It leaves me confused as to where peoples priorities lay is all.

Cid - if it's possible I'd say it's a good idea, but without human eyes there may be issues.

 

[Hexx]

Indecent exposure and sexual assault aren't groovy things to implement as security procedures, so how's this for a happy medium?

We can still have all the genetalia scanning devices still in place to check for weapons and bombs and all that, but instead of the TSA agents ogling everyone we let a computer do it. Build up all that face-recognition style technology to recognize out of place items that might be cause for concern. If it spots something it lets the security folk know and indicates whereabout the questionable object is so they can then perform a more thorough search. This way normal folk don't have to put their genetalia on display and don't have to endure groping either. Groping gets reserved only for folks who've triggered the machine, or heck we could just limit the display to only show when something's been detected.

We can do this. We can get the security benefits without the indecency and the searches that would get you labeled as a sex offender. The technology is out there, we just have to develop it and refine it. Sure it'll cost a lot to make it happen but I'd prefer that to this extremely shady operation that borders on government sanctioned sexual harassment we have in place now.

Problem with that though is there are too many items and explosive materials that can be either made to look like something innocent, can be fit into something inconspicuously (sp?) (lookin at you underwear bomber), or just too many items that could trigger a false alarm and lead to a "boy that cried wolf" mentality. Machines cannot, and will not, replace what a properly trained person can do. Just gotta train them right is all. Personally I think Raes had the better idea here, where if they fuck up once they're gone and hit with charges, that way you learn from the get go or youre done.

 

[Bajaratt]

It's not groping, the TSA isn't cupping your balls or squeezing your boobs, it's a pat down. Fire the very few people who are taking it too far and go from there.

 

[Strid]

When you guys refer to it as groping, I have to keep coming back to the whole concert/sporting event thing.

Why is it anymore appropriate? I never hear anyone bitch about having to get patted down in the line up for Taylor Swift. You know? So wtf? They're airports... they've become crazy security breach targets.

It leaves me confused as to where peoples priorities lay is all.

Have you ever even been "patted down" at an airport? I doubt so if you're relating the two. I've been to many large scale events that had security pat downs, but even those were less intrusive than previous pat downs I have received at the airport. Just last weekend I was at the Dallas Cowboys game. They had men pat down men and ladies for the ladies. All they did was check your waist (just above the belt line, their palms around your stomach area, but not touching it, so just their fingertips skimmed your pants' waistband), socks, and under arms. I've never once even been almost cock grabbed by a pat down at an event, in fact, most event security in my experience seem bashful about this, and I've never once watched a woman get the pat down by a man at an event, which I can't say the same for either at the airport.

The problem with the scanner... Adam Savage, of Mythbuster fame, has proven this device to be utterly worthless, do we really need any more proof than that!? If it worked, it'd be awesome, but it doesn't, it's not even practical at this point, especially if they are searching with hands like they are.

Anyway, again, something needs to be done, but this isn't it. This is just being fuckin' lazy. The TSA is a highly over-funded agency that terribly underpays workers. That says a lot about what we're dealing with right there. Eat the money, and sit back, let's not work to hard now because dammit, we don't have to!

 

[CidBahamut]

Machines cannot, and will not, replace what a properly trained person can do.

True, but we still ought to be striving to explore options that minimize the need for my penis to be on display to complete strangers when I don't want it to be.

@Morcheeba: I've never been patted down at a concert. The closest I ever came to that was getting asked to lift my shirt and empty my cargo pockets before getting into a club and that was without anyone having to actually touch me. It's a matter of people getting inside my personal bubble and then into that personal bubble that is reserved exclusively for significant others.

 

[Bajaratt]

True, but we still ought to be striving to explore options that minimize the need for my penis to be on display to complete strangers when I don't want it to be.

@Morcheeba: I've never been patted down at a concert. The closest I ever came to that was getting asked to lift my shirt and empty my cargo pockets before getting into a club and that was without anyone having to actually touch me. It's a matter of people getting inside my personal bubble and then into that personal bubble that is reserved exclusively for significant others.

You're acting like they're going to get a perfect image of your genitals, like you posed for a glamor shot or something. They don't get that level of detail with the scanners, the scanner will only show 2 things. One, you actually have genitals, and two, you are not hiding a weapon near them. It will not be with anywhere near the same accuracy as if they ripped off your pants and whipped out a camera and snapped a few shots.

Strid: the problem then is the people doing the pat down either being the wrong people to pat other's down, or just being improperly trained; like Raes said. All they need to do is either train them properly, so they pat people down correctly; and then make sure the only people doing the patting are those who aren't going too far and the only problems go away.

 

[CidBahamut]

Quite frankly I don't give a fuck what level of detail they're getting. It's not for them to see.

 

[Xalioniaf]

I miss just taking off a belt and shoes, emptying my pockets and having them scan my luggage and then walking through a metal detector. I'd rather do that anyday. I work in corrections. Inmates and Prisoners get patted down and strip searched all the time because it's part of keeping a safe and secure facility to find contraband. Free citizens should not be subject to these same pat searches and strip searches.

I miss not having to take off my shoes.
But mostly because of smelly feets.

 

[Morcheeba]

Have you ever even been "patted down" at an airport? I doubt so if you're relating the two. I've been to many large scale events that had security pat downs, but even those were less intrusive than previous pat downs I have received at the airport. Just last weekend I was at the Dallas Cowboys game. They had men pat down men and ladies for the ladies. All they did was check your waist (just above the belt line, their palms around your stomach area, but not touching it, so just their fingertips skimmed your pants' waistband), socks, and under arms. I've never once even been almost cock grabbed by a pat down at an event, in fact, most event security in my experience seem bashful about this, and I've never once watched a woman get the pat down by a man at an event, which I can't say the same for either at the airport.

The problem with the scanner... Adam Savage, of Mythbuster fame, has proven this device to be utterly worthless, do we really need any more proof than that!? If it worked, it'd be awesome, but it doesn't, it's not even practical at this point, especially if they are searching with hands like they are.

Anyway, again, something needs to be done, but this isn't it. This is just being fuckin' lazy. The TSA is a highly over-funded agency that terribly underpays workers. That says a lot about what we're dealing with right there. Eat the money, and sit back, let's not work to hard now because dammit, we don't have to!

Well that's hardly a pat down and a waste of time in my honest opinion. When I get patted down at a show I get patted down. Under both breasts and along my cleavage (yes they DO check between as it's an obvious hiding spot for many women who play the mule), inside and out of the thighs down to my ankles. All along the back and front of the midsection and along my arms from the pits to my wrists. I have to open my purse/bag/pockets showing everything I have.

That's at a concert... not an airport where over the last decade there have been some major issues. A concert.

And for everyone here, not that you need to know this but I have been strip search before. In fact I was asked by an officer if I had anything 'up' there, to which I gave a smart ass remark about carrying switchblades in my twat (sorry but the remark was called for imo). And even that was nothing to endure.

I understand some are more sensitive than others, but if for some reason you have called enough attention to yourself to deem a strip search necessary then that's tough titties. Otherwise a pat down is really nothing.

If the agents performing the searches go too far, be sure to address the matter with their superior. Those individuals should be fired.

But if it takes patting down every person who walks into an airport where tens of thousands of people are coming and going to avoid another major catastrophe than that's what it takes. Until something more efficient is established, I say suck it up for everyones sake.

 

[Dancingweapon]

Well that's hardly a pat down and a waste of time in my honest opinion. When I get patted down at a show I get patted down. Under both breasts and along my cleavage (yes they DO check between as it's an obvious hiding spot for many women who play the mule), inside and out of the thighs down to my ankles. All along the back and front of the midsection and along my arms from the pits to my wrists. I have to open my purse/bag/pockets showing everything I have.

Wow really? At a concert they went that far? I've had the 'pat down' thing before. It happens only when a big event is happening at a nightclub for the most part and it wasn't anything close to being that intrusive. One time some 'celebrity' was at the club so everyone had to empty their pockets, have the metal detector device thing go round them and then throw their arms out like Jesus and have a quick up and down pat. It felt more like a quick massage more than anything. I wouldn't even want to go to a concert if I knew that shit was going to happen and I've been to a couple of concerts and nothing like that happened.

Canada be trippin'

 

[Zaltana]

Cid and Strid are sounding like the people i tried to explain this to on my other board.

think about this from the perspective of the TSA employees. the ones doing their jobs properly just wanna get you through the checkpoint. they quickly forget about you, both the patters and the ones watching the screens. they dont wanna see your junk anymore then you want it visible. do you honestly think these people stare at your junk. you and your image, should you go through the scanner which is an option, will be a forgotten memory to those people by the time they call for your boarding pass at your gate. people are reading to much into this.

these agents are people and many will do their job by the book, while others will half ass it. the half assers are the real problem not the security measures themselves.

 

[Strid]

Strid: the problem then is the people doing the pat down either being the wrong people to pat other's down, or just being improperly trained; like Raes said. All they need to do is either train them properly, so they pat people down correctly; and then make sure the only people doing the patting are those who aren't going too far and the only problems go away.

I agree, I'm not against being properly patted down at all. This may not make much sense, since I'm goin' out of my way to not sound racist, but I'll give it a go anyway. If you go to a Rangers, Mavericks, Stars, Cowboys game, the airport and other large event places you'll notice, or have already noticed, the majority of the security workers, concessions staff ,etc. are the very people who'd be working at a fast food restaurant if these large scale centers weren't around. To the majority of people I'm sure they feel these people aren't qualified to be searching them. However, you're right. With proper training they'd do just fine. The problem is the TSA hires these people and do not properly train them because they are lazy and cheap. Ordinarily that wouldn't be such an issue eating me up, but when you consider the amount of funding they have at their disposal it's absurd. The TSA knows they can get away with doing damn near anything/nothing, more now than ever thanks to everyone being paranoid, and that's a major problem.

Well that's hardly a pat down and a waste of time in my honest opinion. When I get patted down at a show I get patted down. Under both breasts and along my cleavage (yes they DO check between as it's an obvious hiding spot for many women who play the mule), inside and out of the thighs down to my ankles. All along the back and front of the midsection and along my arms from the pits to my wrists. I have to open my purse/bag/pockets showing everything I have.

That's at a concert... not an airport where over the last decade there have been some major issues. A concert.

And for everyone here, not that you need to know this but I have been strip search before. In fact I was asked by an officer if I had anything 'up' there, to which I gave a smart ass remark about carrying switchblades in my twat (sorry but the remark was called for imo). And even that was nothing to endure.

I understand some are more sensitive than others, but if for some reason you have called enough attention to yourself to deem a strip search necessary then that's tough titties. Otherwise a pat down is really nothing.

If the agents performing the searches go too far, be sure to address the matter with their superior. Those individuals should be fired.

But if it takes patting down every person who walks into an airport where tens of thousands of people are coming and going to avoid another major catastrophe than that's what it takes. Until something more efficient is established, I say suck it up for everyones sake.

That's quite silly in my opinion. Around here, at events, they are just checking for weapons, probably more specifically guns, that's it. Wanting to bring in some Blow doesn't seem to be something they deem necessary to go to lengths over, which I agree with.

Cid and Strid are sounding like the people i tried to explain this to on my other board.

think about this from the perspective of the TSA employees. the ones doing their jobs properly just wanna get you through the checkpoint. they quickly forget about you, both the patters and the ones watching the screens. they dont wanna see your junk anymore then you want it visible. do you honestly think these people stare at your junk. you and your image, should you go through the scanner which is an option, will be a forgotten memory to those people by the time they call for your boarding pass at your gate. people are reading to much into this.

these agents are people and many will do their job by the book, while others will half ass it. the half assers are the real problem not the security measures themselves.

You seem to be misinterpreting things. I've said numerous times that I have no problem being patted down. I'm also not opposed to the scanner, **IF** it worked properly. I just think it's a waste of money, it's 100% unnecessary if the TSA would hire or train their employees better, though it's an impressive piece of technology. The problem with the scanner isn't that it'll show my junk, shit, I'd show it to them if they asked and do a windmill for them, I wouldn't let a dude touch it though, a female, sure. I also agree, the majority of these people just want you in and out, on your way. The less attention on them the better. I have no problem at all with the employees doing this job, hell, the majority of them probably hate having to do it. My problem lies with the directive staff who call this any sort of an answer to how to better protect people flying and in the airports; an unnecessary machine that has trouble detecting certain metals/steels, among other things, and an increase in heavy searches. A billion dollar organization should be doing much, much better things. I could have been brought in, and in 5 minutes decided on something like this. Again, this is their big answer on how to deal with terrorism. They've had the better part of nine years to work this out, and this is all they have to show for it.

Also, the increasing of heavy searches brings about another problem, they're taking an already lengthy line of people and making it much larger. At the level of play the TSA is at, creating a problem this elementary is absolutely unacceptable, it just reeks of how lazy they have become. Like I've already said, scanners and pat downs don't scare off someone lacking the sense to keep a bomb out of their ass. You jitter them, they go boom whether it be on the plane or in that extended line TSA has created. Again, whether or not this is worse is totally situational, but both are bad and given the TSA's status, unacceptable.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. I have no problems with you not understanding them or not sharing the same level of concern over the TSA's progress over the last nine years, but don't put me in a boat I don't belong in.

 

[Morcheeba]

Strid- Guns aren't the only weapons that kill.

It's hardly 'silly' imo. What's the point of half-assing the safety of a crowd? That's silly. They want to catch anything illegal whether it's people bringing a couple doobs, a small bottle of liquor to avoid paying the prices at the shows or a switch blade they could easily stick to a number of event goers in a mosh pit.

DW - It's not as extreme as you may think. It takes no more than 30 seconds for a guard to check someone provided they're not wearing 14 layers of clothing. And I've been caught with a couple joints rolled and stuffed in between my girls. They didn't start enforcing that because of me, they it because they know how common a hiding place it is for women.

/shrugs. Whatever, I know what to expect each time I go to some large event. I'm never shocked, appalled or insulted when I go either. .... because it's a standard. That's what EVERYONE should get used to, a security standard. And in reality, the couple places I've gone where they've practically let me through with a backpack and no check has shocked me more than anything. I've commented on how I could have walked in with a 40 of vodka or a number of handguns. That's shocked and appalled me more because I worry then about what other people could get in!

We're talking airport security here. People still seem to be forgetting the importance of security in an airport. And people will bitch to all high heavens if something were to happen close to home that resulted from lacking security measures. But wtf do I know.

It's like those that complain in the summer of the heat and when winter comes around they bitch about the cold. Never happy.