Don't touch my junk bro.

[Thelona]

so the new TSA safety measures are getting alot of news, full body scans and/or hands on pat down.

Freak story's are coming out of young children being searched, even STRIP searched while screaming and crying, even story's of TSA agents putting hands INSIDE underwear.

so whats everyone's take on the new measures? totally excessive invasion bordering on sexual assault? or totally necessary safety measure?

what really gets me, is they are doing this specifically because of the underwear bomber, and it took them over a YEAR to start doing it. what happens when we have a Tampax bomber?

Also i get the feeling the TSA agents that are being given this authority are near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to government employees. tho I'm sure they hate their jobs, I cant imagine they like patting people down anymore then people like BEING patted down.

 

[CidBahamut]

It's sexual harassment, not a security measure.

 

[Morcheeba]

I heard it was merely temporary to get the much needed attention of the government to up security protocol.

Also, I don't believe the extremes. Not to say there has been one or two fucks who work for them that haven't tried anything funny.

 

[Lucki]

It's sexual harassment, not a security measure.

Incorrect good sir, they are Freedom Pats.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

The whole thing is being blown out of proportion by the media, since there isn't anything good in the news outside of the whole Korean thing. Think of how much coverage the Prince William marriage is getting. These pat downs are nothing new, at least where I live. I went on a plane a few years back (long enough that I don't remember how many) and they did the same thing, minus a strip search (mentioned in OP example).

As far as the kid goes, what's happening there is the TSA is doing everything they can to make it look like they aren't using any kind of profiling, and really crossing lines IMO. My dad told me there was a report about a 90 y/o nun getting the pat down (etc.) but when an official was asked if a person wearing a burka would receive the same treatment, said official wouldn't say "yes".

So yeah, they pat down small children and nuns so they don't hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[Zaltana]

i don't buy all the hyped up negativity either. the scanners have caught a number of banned items but no more/less then the airlines have been detecting already. people argue the scanners and a patdowns are ineffective. many i know would like to see the TSA drop both and adopt Irael's screening method. Which is basically profiling, situationally not racially, and a somewhat grueling interrogation that is conducted in a manner that is practically impossible to fool.

 

[Dancingweapon]

I'm more bothered about the 'random searches' I mean. What's the point in that? Surely just profile people or not do it at all. I mean, it's just super pointless, "oh lets just randomly search this child." I'd rather them say "oh, lets 'randomly' search this suspicious looking person." At least it seems more logical.

 

[ShomeGhuye]

What's the point in that?

Not hurting feelings, etc. See my post above. Another concern is that if we begin to profile, then anyone planning something malicious will know what NOT to look / behave like.

 

[Zaltana]

Not hurting feelings, etc. See my post above. Another concern is that if we begin to profile, then anyone planning something malicious will know what NOT to look / behave like.

yes that's a possibility. The isralies pull you aside when they catch something that raises a red flag and rapidly ask you a series of well screened questions. they look for all the tell tail visuals; nervousness, fidgeting, time you take to answer questions, and all that jazz. As i have heard their success rate is impressive.

however, i wonder how long would that last in this country before people start complaining about, supposed, civil rights violations? profiling is already a huge taboo in this country, one regulated form has been tested and was shot down rather quickly. this whole situation is about how these measures are perceived by the people.

 

[Reya]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
-Ben Franklin

 

[Raesvelg]

lawl

The government finds itself in a bit of a bind, all things considered. On the one hand, they are facing constant demands from people to improve safety on aircraft, and on the other hand, they face people unwilling to make the modest sacrifice necessary to meet those demands.

And they're frequently the same people.

Ultimately, the fact of the matter is that if people really want to, they'll find a way to sneak explosives onto a plane that can get past even the current detection systems. I can think of a handful of ways off the top of my head right now, and I'm fairly certain at least 2-3 of them would actually work.

At least once.

So meh. I contend that having a stranger take a quick peek at your naughty bits is hardly "giving up an essential liberty", but some would disagree. Ultimately though, it's nearly impossible to counter all of the ways that someone could sneak a bomb onto a plane.

Sadly, the only real way to achieve balance in how we screen is to abandon balance in who we screen.

 

[Zaltana]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
-Ben Franklin

"When there is a will, there is a way."
-Old English proverb.

i agree with Raes on this. this subject is way to touchy. (no pun intended)

 

[Zyndara]

i don't buy all the hyped up negativity either. the scanners have caught a number of banned items but no more/less then the airlines have been detecting already. people argue the scanners and a patdowns are ineffective. many i know would like to see the TSA drop both and adopt Irael's screening method. Which is basically profiling, situationally not racially, and a somewhat grueling interrogation that is conducted in a manner that is practically impossible to fool.

I don't think this is too hyped: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news/

Or this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news

I'm all about safety, but there's safety and then there's humiliation. There are some things that are personal. And there's some things that should be respected when you're up front about something. I mean, make people show documentation certified by a doctor and the airport in advance or whatever you need to do. But this is out of line. Dousing someone in their own urine because you're being an ignorant douche is excessive. Humiliating someone in public after you've already felt them up is excessive. Putting your hands in someone's underwear is excessive. The issue with the body scanners has been privacy, both at the time of the scan and afterward. If you're not up to flashing your shit to whatever federal employee feels like watching the monitor, you're going to get molested instead. It's total bullshit.

I don't know what the solution is. But I can tell you this, people have a right to be pissed. If I was being "patted down" and someone got close enough to my cooch or my rack, I'd be lucky if I didn't get arrested. I'm a goddamned citizen of this country and a law abiding one at that. That's the rule, not the exception, lest everyone forget. They need to change what they are doing. If a terrorist wants to kill enough people, he can do it on foot, or by car, or by train... They'll find a way. All that's being done now is alienating decent people by treating them all like it's guilty until proven innocent. I mean what country are we in again? You wouldn't know it by looking at it sometimes.

 

[Zaltana]

In both of those instances the problem isn't the security measures themselves, its the individual persons applying them. by regulation they are only supposed to pat outside of clothing. entering any area of your clothing is against the regulations set aside for these security officers. The people doing the searches in the two articles overstepped the bounds of their job. those passengers have every right to be angry because the agents overstepped the very guidelines of their job. and it would likely be the same way if we used the questioning method. Profiling arguments would be coming out of the wood works left and right. its damned if you do and damned don't really.

 

[CidBahamut]

Let's be honest, if this sort of thing was happening anywhere other than airport security we'd have the people doing it strung up for sexual harassment so fast it'd make your head spin.

 

[Skaw]

And thus Terrorism wins. I'm pretty sure we can ultimately blame this on McCarthy too.

 

[Xalioniaf]

I welcome any detailed pat down, whether male or female.
Shit, man, it's not like I'll get anything else done during the hour waiting for my flight to board.

 

[Strid]

I'm not to fond of this shit either. This is the wrong way, the lazy way to better airport security. Now instead of a guy blowing up a plane with an ass bomb he'll just set it off in the airport, where an extremely large amount of people are lined up to begin with, but now it's even more due to the hold ups this causes. A search wont deter a terrorist. They're goin' to do what they have to do either on the plane or off and the media will give them the attention they desire either way. It's a stupid move, but it is as expected of our government by now. I guess they figure blowing up people in an airport is safer than a plane being blown up, which I hate to agree on given that it's highly situational. There is a better way to do this, unfortunately it would take time and effort, which can't be done when you finally get off your asses a few weeks before the travel season rush.

 

[Reya]

As a frequent flier myself, I have seen these machines in action and experienced the enhanced pat down over the past few months. This past week alone since last Thursday I have been on 6 flights. (Yay Germany!) I hope I do not offend anyone but the majority of the people who think that what is being done is okay are people who maybe at most fly once a year if that. But anyways... these machines are bullshit and this is why.

Money. Former Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff has been criticized for heavily promoting full-body scanners while not always fully disclosing that he is a lobbyist for one of the companies that makes the machines. Not only does Mr. Chertoff have his hands in the piggy bank but several lobbyists within the government are also getting a nice slice of the pie. To name a few we have former TSA deputy administration Tom Blank, former assistant administrator for policy at the TSA, Chad Wolf. Kevin Patrick Kelly, "a former top staffer to Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., who sits on the Homeland Security Appropriations subcommittee" and Former Senator Al D'Amato. It's a way to make a quick buck in the name of fear. Lets face it, fear sells.

These machines will not and do not pick up the new types of technology and techniques that are being used today. The X-ray themselves can only pick up specific surfaces such as sharp corners and elongated shapes. They do not however pick up flat surfaces. Someone could easily pass through one of these scanners wearing a flat bomb strapped to their chest. To exclude weapons or bombs on the outside of the body, the machine can not pick up anything that may be hiding within a body cavity.

I also think the TSA is bullshit but that is for another day. Lack of training, common sense and inexperience with an ongoing power trip is what comes to mind when I think of them.

People need to wake up if they think that this acceptable. If it doesn't feel right it isn't.

 

[Ecks]

I miss just taking off a belt and shoes, emptying my pockets and having them scan my luggage and then walking through a metal detector. I'd rather do that anyday. I work in corrections. Inmates and Prisoners get patted down and strip searched all the time because it's part of keeping a safe and secure facility to find contraband. Free citizens should not be subject to these same pat searches and strip searches.

You know what we do to visitors, attorneys and other civilians that enter the facility? They walk through a metal detector and empty pockets to make sure no cell phones, weapons, tobacco or drugs (or other contraband) are brought in. We don't pat search or strip search civilians because it would be an invasion of their privacy. There should be no difference when getting on a freaking plane for a trip.

Pat searches, but even more so - strip searches, are an outright invasion of personal privacy and personal space of free U.S. citizens. Regardless off whether they are being abused or not.