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man, every time baj posts he proves he is made of win.
If you want to be well-geared get moar torque like several pup i know o;O
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Still doesn't mean cannoners can't totally suck though. It's still burnt into my mind how this Monk that Tag and I partied with was wearing crap like Avengers, STR Rings, Life Belt (I wanna say Brown Belt for the sake of my memory but I'm so damn sure it was Life Belt. >>;; ), SH and NQ Amemet at 75. One of my HQ staves are worth more than his entire gear set...when there's crap like this floating around then there's no doubt that non-cannon jobs can out-DD cannon ones at times (Tag did literally 70% of the damage in this party in spite of the MNK popping sushi and constantly berserking - quite literally everyone else was gimped pretty bad...MNK never pulled hate. Ever.)
Beyond that, with the way 2h weapons were adjusted, several jobs are much more cannon-capable than they were before...they just gotta find the right setup and take advantage of mob weaknesses to get the most out of a party that they can.
We don't talk about mnk we talk about pup.
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Ooooh, so close to a relevant response, but still such a failure. Even your insults are stupid, but at least you're consistent. A torque isn't going to magically unsuckify PUP, and you're retarded for saying it would.
How ? how +7 skill don't improve pup, explain ?
Truth is : I think you have no clue what pup can and cannot do. I wonder how many of you know for how puch a pup(pet) hit merit mob for. I'm guessingg noone actually. Your only argument so far is basically "lolPUP". Sounds like you don't have that many argument.
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~+7 attack/accuracy, while nice, can't make or break a job.
In other words, a torque isn't going to magically unsuckify PUP.
...oh wait, that's exactly what Bajaratt just said.
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We don't talk about mnk cause even the shittiest one like Tonytron can out parse you.
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Wow, and your intelligence just keeps dropping. I said the torque wouldn't unsuckify PUP, meaning that even while the torque will improve PUP, the job will still suck. Try learning to read before you make yourself look even more stupid than you already have.
No, I have no clue how much they do each hit in a merit party; and I don't give a shit how much they do. It won't be as high as a monk can hit, guaranteed; it won't be as fast or as accurate either. You don't have the gear or the traits/abilities available to keep up with a monk, not even most of the other DD jobs.
You're acting like there's a wealth of contrary evidence to people saying "lolpup" and being accurate. Hell, you're one of the more vocal idiots trying to tout the strength of the job, and now you've completely undone any progress you might(because I don't think there was any, but just to be safe) have made in getting people to accept the job. PUP is shit, there's no reason for the job, their only gear is mediocre and isn't tailored to them anyways. SE needs to put a lot of work into making the job worth while; which they haven't done yet. Just because you leveled the job to 75 doesn't make the job good; it just means you're willing to level a shitty job. At best, PUP is a second choice behind a monk for salvage; other than that the job is completely useless.
Ok
you are admitting you have no clue what you are talking about. Have a nice flame newbs.- Joined
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Getting a bit closer to the original topic here...
1. If you have one or more cannon jobs (which are suitably well geared, and you know how to play them well), and you range from not minding playing it in a cannon to *liking* playing it in a cannon... then get your merits on that job(s). Spend them on what you like, but get them where you can get them efficiently.
2. If you don't have any cannon jobs, but one or more of them sounds like something you'd find appealing to play anyway... then just level it, and then see above. Since we've already established that you'd like it, levelling it in its own right wouldn't be a problem, and then you'd get the side perk of using it for merits.
3. If you don't have any cannon jobs, and every last cannon job is unappealing to you (*or* you have cannon job(s) which you absolutely refuse to play), then simply accept that you're not gonna get exp/merits at a cannon rate, and you're very likely not gonna get invited to cannon parties.
You can still get exp/merits by all sorts of other means, and while it's not top-tier efficiency, it's certainly *more* than efficient enough to be useful. Non-cannons can still get well over 10k/hr, and once upon a time, only cannons could say the same. While it's not 20k/hr, 25k/hr, whatever... it's certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Point being, accept that (with job balance and exp mobs as they are now) your decision not to play any cannon jobs, will impact the exp/hr you can expect from your parties. And since that's common knowledge and has been for some time, don't complain about it. You either knew about it in advance, or you should've pulled your head out of the sand and done a bit of homework. It's not like you can't get exp or can't get merits *at all* - you just can't get them as fast.
1. If you have one or more cannon jobs (which are suitably well geared, and you know how to play them well), and you range from not minding playing it in a cannon to *liking* playing it in a cannon... then get your merits on that job(s). Spend them on what you like, but get them where you can get them efficiently.
2. If you don't have any cannon jobs, but one or more of them sounds like something you'd find appealing to play anyway... then just level it, and then see above. Since we've already established that you'd like it, levelling it in its own right wouldn't be a problem, and then you'd get the side perk of using it for merits.
3. If you don't have any cannon jobs, and every last cannon job is unappealing to you (*or* you have cannon job(s) which you absolutely refuse to play), then simply accept that you're not gonna get exp/merits at a cannon rate, and you're very likely not gonna get invited to cannon parties.
You can still get exp/merits by all sorts of other means, and while it's not top-tier efficiency, it's certainly *more* than efficient enough to be useful. Non-cannons can still get well over 10k/hr, and once upon a time, only cannons could say the same. While it's not 20k/hr, 25k/hr, whatever... it's certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Point being, accept that (with job balance and exp mobs as they are now) your decision not to play any cannon jobs, will impact the exp/hr you can expect from your parties. And since that's common knowledge and has been for some time, don't complain about it. You either knew about it in advance, or you should've pulled your head out of the sand and done a bit of homework. It's not like you can't get exp or can't get merits *at all* - you just can't get them as fast.
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You've done the same, so you're just as "newb" as me then. Actually, you're more so, since you ignore the wealth of evidence that PUP sucks and continue to think it's good, even despite your admittance that you don't know how well it would do in a merit party. I do know what I'm talking about, however, because of PUP's lack of good gear, abilities, and traits that severely hinder their damage output; so there's no way even on paper that they'd compare to a real damage dealer(since you probably won't know, paper usually sounds better than in reality). So far the only one displaying any newbishness is you.Ok
Also, that makes either you or mdkuser a liar, since he said you were in a merit party with him, but you said you don't know how well you'd do in one. So either one of you is lying or you're even dumber than I thought, which is actually impressive in a sad way.
No i said YOU dont know what dmg pup do, however i know what i can do and what dmg i do on pup to several merit mobs.
Unlike what you say pup75 have a good choice of gear, pretty much the same as a random melee ecept a few slots like *back*.
Pup get awsome abilities like *role reversal* or just activate/deactivate that allow you pet to have infinite MP. So yes, you are indeed ignorant 100% on pup.
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Like?
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That's odd, I was under the impression that PUP had a C ranking in hand-to-hand.
When I had levelled NIN to 75, and started doing merits with A- Katana, my accuracy, even at that level with proper melee gear leaning toward accuracy at the time, left something to be desired, and this is ninja, one of the more consistently accurate jobs. Once I got merits, this all balanced out, but I can't honestly see how PUP with its C ranked weapon skill could perform on nearly that level.
I was also under the impression that PUP was stuck with a lot of more mage-oriented gear, leaving them stuck with a lot less choices than a full-fledged melee... Even with maxed acc/attack/hand to hand, that still probably won't bring you above a B rank in hand to hand.
Furthermore, didn't they fix the activate/deactivate thing so that it no longer works?
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http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3460/parsesy0.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6161/parse2ps7.jpg
PUP doesn't need to suck. Admittedly, most usually they do(see: thiefjhv). Granted while that's not really the best example, it's not the worst.
That being said, should people invite PUPs into their parties? Just don't be stupid about it, just like inviting any other job. Go check their gear in town if you don't know them, ask them about their merits,etc, and for fucks sake do not make them EXP in mire (hi2u amnesia and pet is left useless).
Had a funny party a while back with my PUP, a BST, a SMN, BRD, NIN, forget other jobs (I think DRG and RDM). But we were nonstop chaining at the front of mamool staging point. Skoffins included. It was pretty good experience(didn't lose chain) up till we had a freak accident and a couple deaths from Skoffin gone wild. It was really fun though. It's not going to out-perform a decked out top tier DD in terms of damage, but I think it can come close enough to warrant an invite if it's geared and merited correctly.
End derail.
To OP: if your friend really wants merit parties fast they will get them faster if
they level a standard issue merit job. I'm not crazy enough to level PUP to 75 AND get all my merits for it while exclusively playing it. It's simply a lot easier because certain jobs are kid tested, mother approved for merit already and some..well, just aren't.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6161/parse2ps7.jpg
PUP doesn't need to suck. Admittedly, most usually they do(see: thiefjhv). Granted while that's not really the best example, it's not the worst.
That being said, should people invite PUPs into their parties? Just don't be stupid about it, just like inviting any other job. Go check their gear in town if you don't know them, ask them about their merits,etc, and for fucks sake do not make them EXP in mire (hi2u amnesia and pet is left useless).
Had a funny party a while back with my PUP, a BST, a SMN, BRD, NIN, forget other jobs (I think DRG and RDM). But we were nonstop chaining at the front of mamool staging point. Skoffins included. It was pretty good experience(didn't lose chain) up till we had a freak accident and a couple deaths from Skoffin gone wild. It was really fun though. It's not going to out-perform a decked out top tier DD in terms of damage, but I think it can come close enough to warrant an invite if it's geared and merited correctly.
End derail.
To OP: if your friend really wants merit parties fast they will get them faster if
they level a standard issue merit job. I'm not crazy enough to level PUP to 75 AND get all my merits for it while exclusively playing it. It's simply a lot easier because certain jobs are kid tested, mother approved for merit already and some..well, just aren't.
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What is the worse job to use an example for the lol title? I mean can you really out parse a thief that is well geared? DRG? DRK? WAR? SAM? MNK? NIN? BLU? RNG? BST? A PLD even? I'm sorry, but PUP is the worse melee job.
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It's still not nearly as high as a real damage dealer. The numbers don't even show up on paper, which is always better than in practice; so while I don't have the exact number, it's not even remotely challenging to understand that it won't be that high. Crappy gear options + no good DD abilities/traits =/= great DD.
Like what? The ONLY gear they have is stuff that every other DD job can wear, although they all have better gear options available. Outside of Usukane, your gear options suck, and lol at any group that gives a pup usukane before a real job.
Even with those "awesome" abilities(that's in quotes because it's not awesome, just being sardonic), you're still not doing as much damage as a real damage dealer. You still have nothing to help your own damage
Even with my "limited" knowledge of the job, I still know you have no role, and thus no reason for an invite. Keep on trying to tout the "strengths" of your salvage job, that's all it's good for. Hell, Liefe has done more in a SINGLE POST than you have EVER done in trying to prove that PUP is anything but a waste of a party slot. Actually posting up some numbers is significantly more than the "Even though I'm an idiot, trust me PUP is good!" posts you've been making for months. I'm curious about Liefe's parse though, because Phraust is topping the party and he doesn't have any of the jobs mentioned, but at least it's something.